Cyprus now looks to take 25 percent from bank accounts of wealthy
137 replies, posted
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;40027198]oh ok you're just trolling. high-five, you got me.[/QUOTE]
Nah that's just Dain. If it's not Corporation-states, it's a return to direct Imperialism ala the 18th Century.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40027205]I'm serious. Fucking go to singapore, it's a wonderful place.[/QUOTE]
no country with the death penalty is a wonderful place
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;40027233]no country with the death penalty is a wonderful place[/QUOTE]
[quote]Today, Singapore has a highly developed market-based economy, based historically on extended entrepôt trade. Along with Hong Kong, South Korea and Taiwan, Singapore is one of the original Four Asian Tigers. The Singaporean economy is known as one of the freest,[59] most innovative,[60] most competitive,[61] and most business-friendly.[62] The 2011 Index of Economic Freedom ranks Singapore as the second freest economy in the world, behind Hong Kong. According to the Corruption Perceptions Index, Singapore is consistently ranked as one of the least corrupt countries in the world, along with New Zealand and the Scandinavian countries.[/quote]
[quote]Singapore has the world's highest percentage of millionaires, with one out of every six households having at least one million US dollars in disposable wealth. This excludes property, businesses, and luxury goods, which if included would further increase the number of millionaires, especially as property in Singapore is among the world's most expensive.[90] Despite its relative economic success, Singapore does not have a minimum wage, believing that it would lower its competitiveness. It also has one of the highest income inequality levels among developed countries, coming in just behind Hong Kong and in front of the United States.[91][92][/quote]
[quote]Acute poverty is rare in Singapore; the government has rejected the idea of a generous welfare system, stating that each generation must earn and save enough for its entire life cycle. There are, however, numerous means-tested 'assistance schemes' provided by the Ministry of Community Development, Youth and Sports in Singapore for the needy, including some that pay out SGD 400 to SGD 1000 per month to each needy household, free medical care at government hospitals, money for children's school fees, rental of studio apartments for SGD 80 a month, training grants for courses, etc.[93][94][95] Also, Singapore is rated top in terms of net international investment position per capita.[96][97][/quote]
So executing some criminals each year negates all this wonderful stuff. Singapore is a triumph of capitalism.
I don't really see how this is fascist???? I mean where is the genocide, the rampant nationalist militarism, the irredentism, the cult of personality, the horrendous economic mismanagement?
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40027262]So executing some criminals each year negates all this wonderful stuff.[/QUOTE]
Yes.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;40027281]Yes.[/QUOTE]
how do i utilitarianism
like i'm not even going to say "some of them might be innocent" (although certainly many of them are). killing anybody, regardless of what they have done, is a grievous assault on human dignity and rights
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;40027233]no country with the death penalty is a wonderful place[/QUOTE]
Does this mean Norway was a shithole until 1979?
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40027286]how do i utilitarianism[/QUOTE]
by not doing it?
[QUOTE=Worldwaker;40023068]
A government has failed at it's job. Why are we acting like we did when the banks started to fall? Let it collapse, move in with corporations, make the business of government an actual business. Cyprus wouldn't be in the shitter then.[/QUOTE]
A state is not a business, no matter what anarcho capitalist think or keep saying. Nor should it be a business and nor should it be profit driven.
A state should guarantee a safety net for it's citizen, it should guarantee functional area, infrastructure, education and partially guarantee everyone access to given rights and freedoms and as well as make a number of obligations.
(what I said is incredibly simplified and rough of course, but the point is, what a state does is in many ways not profit driven nor should it be.)
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40027312]Does this mean Norway was a shithole until 1979?[/QUOTE]
I'm saying it was not something to be looked to as the ideal state of human affairs. Basic human rights are not something that should ever be compromised on and I believe that "life" is a basic human right.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;40027319]A state should guarantee a safety net for it's citizen, it should guarantee functional area, infrastructure, education and partially guarantee everyone access to given rights and freedoms and as well as make a number of obligations.[/QUOTE]
a sovereign corporation can do all of those things and as I pointed out above, the quasi-sovcorp that is singapore does indeed provide all of those things and then some.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40027342]a sovereign corporation can do all of those things and as I pointed out above, the quasi-sovcorp that is singapore does indeed provide all of those things and then some.[/QUOTE]
except for the freedom to not be murdered by your own government (that's sort of a big one)
Clearly everyone here appears to object to the levy, but how do you propose Cyprus raises the money otherwise? Unless they want to go bankrupt.
I'm not entirely sure I could support a levy, but I'm yet to see a less painful solution.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;40027352]except for the freedom to not be murdered by your own government (that's sort of a big one)[/QUOTE]
You get executed if you commit a serious crime, and Singapore has one of the most effective and least-corrupt judicial systems in the world.
You don't get executed for going about your daily business or whatever. Why would the company do that? Their share price would go down.
In a way the state is actually a business in some sort of sense.
The state (at its minimum) protects property owners from external and internal threats, in return for services or wealth.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40027368]You get executed if you commit a serious crime,[/QUOTE]
literally doesn't matter in the slightest. Killing a human being who isn't posing an immediate threat to anybody else (aka anybody who has been arrested and is now in custody) is murder. Murder is murder no matter who is responsible, be it an individual, a corporation, or a government.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;40027328]I'm saying it was not something to be looked to as the ideal state of human affairs. Basic human rights are not something that should ever be compromised on and I believe that "life" is a basic human right.[/QUOTE]
Same here, but a tinpot dictatorship randomly killing people and a judicial system that has capital punishment in it for a few serious cases are miles apart. One is obviously better than the other.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40027262]So executing some criminals each year negates all this wonderful stuff. Singapore is a triumph of capitalism.
I don't really see how this is fascist????[/QUOTE]
[quote]
Singapore has the world's highest percentage of millionaires, with one out of every six households having at least one million US dollars in disposable wealth. This excludes property, businesses, and luxury goods, which if included would further increase the number of millionaires, especially as property in Singapore is among the world's most expensive.[90] Despite its relative economic success, Singapore [B]does not have a minimum wage[/B], believing that it would lower its competitiveness. It also has one of the [B]highest income inequality levels among developed countries[/B], coming in just behind Hong Kong and in front of the United States.[91][92][/quote]
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10297p.nsf/ImageView/Survey2008/$file/Monogram+1+Lores.pdf
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16920951[/url]
[quote]Unemployment is low, at 2% and a record 14-year low last year, according to data released last month by the Ministry of Manpower (MOM). But a public housing survey in 2008 showed that a [B]third of one-room apartment residents have no earned income[/B].[/quote]
singapore apparently does not release poverty statistics either lmao
so that's what a triumph of capitalism looks like
[editline]24th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40027368]You get executed if you commit a serious crime, and Singapore has one of the most effective and least-corrupt judicial systems in the world.
You don't get executed for going about your daily business or whatever. Why would the company do that? Their share price would go down.[/QUOTE]
can i get a source on all this "least corrupt government / judicial system" that doesn't come from the singapore government
considering it was the wealthy dodging taxes that fucked greece up, i don't even get how people are actually defending the "hardworking" wealthy in this.
[url]http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/wealthy-greeks-still-dodging-taxes-despite-crisis-a-864703.html[/url]
Dainbramage is right guys, crippling poverty and a third of the area without an income is proof a corporate run state will work flawlessly.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;40027309]like i'm not even going to say "some of them might be innocent" (although certainly many of them are). killing anybody, regardless of what they have done, is a grievous assault on human dignity and rights[/QUOTE]
How about shooting a baby in the face?
Or murdering school children and then taunting their parents at the hearing?
[QUOTE=Ridge;40027637]How about shooting a baby in the face?
Or murdering school children and then taunting their parents at the hearing?[/QUOTE]
yeah that's still terrible
[editline]24th March 2013[/editline]
i love that you want to execute that teenage boy in ohio
as if executing him makes more sense than letting him live life in prison and possibly realize the mistake he's made, assuming he's not completely mentally ill
[editline]24th March 2013[/editline]
do you want to execute the 11 year old that shot his nazi father too? surely he could never grow up to realize the mistake he made
If you have to tax, why the fuck not tax the ones who can afford it?
Boo fucking hoo, you might not be able to get that third yacht you promised your pet gerbil, instead your money will go to hoist everyone out of troubled times.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;40023157]So if a government does a terrible job, they can justify stealing from their citizens?[/QUOTE]
When somebody (ie: "1%") owns the majority of the country's wealth, they have an automatic obligation to invest or distribute it properly.
If the "1%" are hoarding an overwhelming share of currency and not putting it back into the economic system then there's no choice but to forcibly remove it.
People have this fucking misguided sense of individuality when it comes to wealth, as if wealth is an unlimited surplus commodity and just having a "can-do, hard working" attitude will make everybody in the world rich. If somebody owns a staggeringly disproportionate amount of land, resources or currency then they are obligated to use it properly. There's no fucking conceivable volume of work that an individual could do that would entitle them to be 30,000x more wealthy than the average laborer. If that's going to be the case then they need to invest the money properly, spend it, or they'll lose it; as the case is in Cyprus.
Cyprus couldn't function with the tremendous degree of economic stagnation, which was due in part to the lack of the wealthy investing or spending their money. The choices are: remove the money from the accounts of the rich, inflate the currency, or sit and wait for a complete economic collapse.
[QUOTE=Ridge;40027637]How about shooting a baby in the face?
Or murdering school children and then taunting their parents at the hearing?[/QUOTE]
Those are awful things to do but that doesn't make the death penalty less awful.
I think a society where revenge killing is an aspect of it's legal system is even more awful.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;40027838]When somebody (ie: "1%") owns the majority of the country's wealth, they have an automatic obligation to invest or distribute it properly.
If the "1%" are hoarding an overwhelming share of currency and not putting it back into the economic system then there's no choice but to forcibly remove it.
People have this fucking misguided sense of individuality when it comes to wealth, as if wealth is an unlimited surplus commodity and just having a "can-do, hard working" attitude will make everybody in the world rich. If somebody owns a staggeringly disproportionate amount of land, resources or currency then they are obligated to use it properly. There's no fucking conceivable volume of work that an individual could do that would entitle them to be 30,000x more wealthy than the average laborer. If that's going to be the case then they need to invest the money properly, spend it, or they'll lose it; as the case is in Cyprus.
Cyprus couldn't function with the tremendous degree of economic stagnation, which was due in part to the lack of the wealthy investing or spending their money. The choices are: remove the money from the accounts of the rich, inflate the currency, or sit and wait for a complete economic collapse.[/QUOTE]
And other people seem to think that wealth is a zero sum equation that means for every dollar someone earns, they must have stolen it from someone else.
If someone has earned a fortune, they have an obligation to themselves and nobody else to use it as seen fit.
[QUOTE=Ridge;40027904]And other people seem to think that wealth is a zero sum equation that means for every dollar someone earns, they must have stolen it from someone else.[/QUOTE]
well yeah that's basic math and the 1st law of thermodynamics.
The fundamental mechanism of capitalism is the unequal transaction. You can't turn a profit unless you give people slightly less than what they pay for.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;40027064]you keep finding new and fresh awful things to say do you have like a team of writers or something
[/QUOTE]
it's pretty much true. the government forces everyone to abide by a set of rules and pay into a system whether they agree with it or not; whether they have faith in it or not. that's not moral. it's a mafia-like organization where they will put you in prison for not paying taxes to fund the prison.
but i digress. the point is people shouldn't have to bail out their failed government or economic system simply because the eu and imf want to line their pockets with the money of citizens. if a government exists as anything more than an expediency, then it should be providing for the welfare of the people, not banks and international organizations.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;40030224]it's pretty much true. the government forces everyone to abide by a set of rules and pay into a system whether they agree with it or not; whether they have faith in it or not. that's not moral. it's a mafia-like organization where they will put you in prison for not paying taxes to fund the prison.
but i digress. the point is people shouldn't have to bail out their failed government or economic system simply because the eu and imf want to line their pockets with the money of citizens. if a government exists as anything more than an expediency, then it should be providing for the welfare of the people, not banks and international organizations.[/QUOTE]
i think there's a large difference between trying to maintain a cohesive society complete with laws and public services and raping someone
is it "like rape" for the government to arrest me after murdering someone? after all, i don't want to go to prison, so they're forcing me into something whether or not i have faith in the prison system to rehabilitate me.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;40027920]well yeah that's basic math and the 1st law of thermodynamics.
The fundamental mechanism of capitalism is the unequal transaction. You can't turn a profit unless you give people slightly less than what they pay for.[/QUOTE]
What utter drivel. A transaction is agreed upon by the people in the exchange.
If you offered somebody something less than X value, their labour is undervalued. A competitor would soon realize this and offer higher wages, and wages would then return to the same level.
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