[QUOTE=Big Bang;36137697] nothing that someone with a proper grasp of a developing country's budget like [B]Carlos Andres Perez[/B] or Caldera[/QUOTE]
Ok, I agree with most of what you said but are you seriously defending Carlos Andrés Perez? Are you serious? He (and him alone) is the only reason people put someone like Chavez into government. Do you have any idea who this man was? In less than three years the guy completely fucked Venezuela's economy beyond repair. I'd call him the Boris Yeltsin of Venezuela, he imparted REALLY REALLY dumb privatization measures and increases in oil prices effectvely disruptiing the economy, reaching an 88% inflation in 1996. They tried to coup him twice (not taking in account the Caracazo) and finally he was removed from office over severe corruption charges. Due to shit governments like this one, that were in control for over 40 years the poor class which was the majority of the people got someone like Chavez into power.
[QUOTE=Zambies!;36137847]I started to think about how terrible of an idea that was after I said that :v:[/QUOTE]
The crime wave is not something you can solve by manpower like what Lula did with the BOPE on Brazil. It'd simply not work on Venezuela as people are simply not loyal enough to the law. You'd have to go with a mid/long length solution like adding a positive influx of education, jobs and opportunities to the barrios so young men don't have to recur to crime.
[QUOTE=thisispain;36136258]dictators don't get elected by elections deemed legitimate by international councils.
it seems to be a short-hand insult.[/QUOTE]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRxMWVdeNr0[/media]
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;36137722]I personally despise Hugo Chavez, but it's sad to see anyone die from cancer.[/QUOTE]
of course you do, you're a psycho right wing nut and he's a left winger who stopped your oil companies from ruining his country
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;36138406]of course you do, you're a psycho right wing nut and he's a left winger who stopped your oil companies from ruining his country[/QUOTE]
HAH, you think Chavez did that? Oil production in Venezuela was nationalized by Carlos Andres Perez (Right wing) in the 70's with the creation of Petroleos de Venezuela, Sociedad Anonima, otherwise known as PDVSA, the company that Chavez destroyed by firing 60% of it's skilled workers and essentially sold it to the Chinese while having Cubans work in it.
Same shit different empire.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;36138537]HAH, you think Chavez did that? Oil production in Venezuela was nationalized by Carlos Andres Perez (Right wing) in the 70's with the creation of Petroleos de Venezuela, Sociedad Anonima, otherwise known as PDVSA, the company that Chavez destroyed by firing 60% of it's skilled workers and essentially sold it to the Chinese while having Cubans work in it.
Same shit different empire.[/QUOTE]
i thought that was the whole reason they had that coup, was cause the oil companies paid off one of the military dudes to get rid of chavez cause he was stopping them from fucking around with venezuelas oil???
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;36138790]i thought that was the whole reason they had that coup, was cause the oil companies paid off one of the military dudes to get rid of chavez cause he was stopping them from fucking around with venezuelas oil???[/QUOTE]
That's the plot of Mercenaries 2.
Allow me to have Wikipedia answer this to you: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_coup_attempt_of_2002#Events_leading_up_to_the_coup[/url]
Just an FYI, no foreign oil company has even remotely attempted a takeover on PDVSA, we have the OPEC backing us.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;36138880]That's the plot of Mercenaries 2.
Allow me to have Wikipedia answer this to you: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_coup_attempt_of_2002#Events_leading_up_to_the_coup[/url]
Just an FYI, no foreign oil company has even remotely attempted a takeover on PDVSA, we have the OPEC backing us.[/QUOTE]
hmm, so was i watching a documentary or playing a video game.......... i need to smoke less weed maybe
It could also be sensationalist bullshit to try and screw with the elections. Who would vote for a dying leader? I've seen worse.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;36139050]hmm, so was i watching a documentary or playing a video game.......... i need to smoke less weed maybe[/QUOTE]
Next you're going to tell me we never killed the president of Panau in a gunfight while riding ICBMs.
He might be bad in some ways, but you can't deny that he was at the head of the highest economic growth Venezuela has ever seen. This stuff about inflation is stupid too, inflation is natural for an economy growing that quickly. Its also good that he calls out the US on all the stupid shit it does in South America.
[editline]31st May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Big Bang;36137596]Oh boy, how easy it is to tell that the rest of the world is so ill informed about what Chavez has done to this country. He's a dictator, simply. He doesn't cheat the elections, he cheats the votes. People have been scared by something called the Tascón list which contains all people who voted on the 2004 referendum to remove Chavez from power. Everyone who voted against him in 2004 and were working for the government in any sort of way (Like on any country the government is the biggest employer), were removed from their posts, military officers were removed from their posts, PDVSA fired nearly 60% of it's employees due to this list, and instead hired over the years less skilled workers or foreign labor from Cuba and China.
Chavez has essentially sold this country to China and Cuba, having made a 10 year agreement paid on oil to bring China oil processing technology to Venezuela (Something illegal as contemplated by the 1999 constitution). Chavez has successfully scared people into voting for him as these list containing people who have voted for him are still going around and people who have not changed their votes in recent elections are still being denied jobs in several public offices. Under Chavez, 20% of the private production was made into state property, removing people from their jobs. Doctors, who have been in a constant flee from the country have been replaced by poorly trained Cuban doctors or "express doctors" with a degree they got after 2 years of study. Private property is constantly under threat as aggressive and armed squatters have been defended by the government.
That's not the end of it, under Chavez, Venezuela has entered a massive crime wave, comparable to the Colombian period of La Violencia. 50 people are murdered in Caracas every week (Or at least those are the one that get to the morgues). There have been 3 major breakouts in prisons all around the country over the last 2 years, most recent one being on the La Planta complex, which is in El Paraiso, in the middle of Caracas, resulting in a gunfight that ensued for 3 days straight between military forces and the armed prisoners of La Planta, mirroring the previous incident in Rodeo II. Education has been made more than sub par, with high school students often getting a free pass in certain subjects as no teachers can be found for them. Private education is costly and constantly under fire by government agencies with no restraints or concern about the future of Venezuela. Even the UCV, a World Heritage site, has slowly decayed into a shell of it's former self by consistent attacks by radical Chavist group M28 who have firebombed and opened fire within the campus.
This country is nearing a state of anarchy, with a decaying economy, with a massive brain drain caused due to the rampant crime, a decay in quality of life and in even essential services like electricity and running water, all this while Chavez has continuously gifted away massive amounts of money/oil barrels to his friends at Nicaragua, Bolivia, Ecuador, Cuba and China, money that belongs to Venezuelans, and that could be used to improve oh so many things. The Chavez administration are inexcusable in their inefficiency, inefficacy, criminal negligence and constant failure at solving even the most basic of problems. I am not saying that Chavez deserves cancer or that he deserves to die in any way, that's most certainly not what I am saying, but it's time to realize that he's simply not fit to run a country.
He is not a good man turned evil by American imperialism, do not be fooled. He's a bad administrator surrounded by even worse ones trying to run a country without having any idea of what they are even doing.[/QUOTE]
you're making it seem like Cuba and China are the worst countries in the world.
P.S Cuban doctors are extremely well trained.
That's hardly right. The seventies saw a quite bigger economical growth for venezuela, only reserved for the higher class, actually.
And you'd rather take it from us, who live the situation venezuela is in first hand. about these cuban doctors, I'd say a lot of them are well trained, but they've made a lot of fuckups, and it's not strange to hear stories of people who died by medication given from these doctors and other shit like that.
No matter how much growth, rates, stadistics you can pull out of your ass, still doesn't justify how hard and dangerous is to live in venezuela right now.
What about social equality and what not. I think you guys are over exaggerating the whole bad leader thing.
[editline]31st May 2012[/editline]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lALEdipCDyk[/media]
I will agree that there certainly is a lot more social equality in venezuela than there was 20 years ago. Good laws have been passed to protect the people from getting fucked by corporations and whatnot. still, Venezuela is suffering great economical stagnation and was recently cataloged as the least economically competitive country in the world, even more than greece. I wouldn't put all blame on Chavez, as he might have good intentions, but his whole administration is very incompetent.
[QUOTE=thisispain;36136088]why does the article call him a dictator?[/QUOTE]
Are you trying to kill me
[QUOTE=Earthen;36140367]He might be bad in some ways, but you can't deny that he was at the head of the highest economic growth Venezuela has ever seen. This stuff about inflation is stupid too, inflation is natural for an economy growing that quickly. Its also good that he calls out the US on all the stupid shit it does in South America.[/QUOTE]
What economic growth? Honestly, what fucking economic growth? We had to remove 3 zero's from our currency in 2006, it is currently illegal to even mention the official inflation rate or the black market price of US Dollars in bolivares (I am not kidding), where our currency exchanges are tightly controlled (400 dollars is the most the SENIAT will grant you for internet purchases), where the stock exchange was not only expropriated but dismantled, where the private sector is always under constant threat of expropriation? Nobody wants to invest in Venezuelan, there is no economic growth at all, there's a huge mess in our economy that can't be fixed by throwing oil money at it like Chavez think you can do for anything.
I mean fuck, where did you even get the slight perception that there has been economic growth in Venezuela at all?
[QUOTE=Earthen;36140367]P.S Cuban doctors are extremely well trained.[/QUOTE]
Now this offends me, greatly, as a Venezuelan born, raised and currently residing in Venezuela and as the son of a Venezuelan doctor that you are attempting to imply that Venezuelan doctors are not all that good and it'd be better to replace them with foreign labor who are at most just trying to get themselves off that island. Venezuelan doctors are VERY well trained, and unlike in America the Universidad Central de Venezuela, which is a public and free university and has been that way since its inception, is where most of them graduate from. Over 5000 people apply in the UCV's medical school, only 120 are accepted. There are several Venezuelan doctors currently residing in the United States, and who can blame them from leaving when this government gives their jobs to some foreign dudes?
Chavez has absolutely thrown away the potential of our doctors due to some political bullshit, having the public health system decay into a state of disarray where even morphine is hard to find on a public hospital and that has come to bite him back as he can not get treatment in Venezuela considering that all of our oncologists have relocated elsewhere.
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