• US alarmed by prospect of Scottish ‘Yes’ in independence vote
    62 replies, posted
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;45987428]Well it would appear that 50% or more of people in scotland disagree with you.[/QUOTE] Hmm, it's not like there's been a surge of nationalism in the UK recently. Nah...can't think of any reason why people might be clinging too hard to their "own kind". I mean, what even is a UKIP?
[QUOTE=hexpunK;45987471]Hmm, it's not like there's been a surge of nationalism in the UK recently. Nah...can't think of any reason why people might be clinging too hard to their "own kind". I mean, what even is a UKIP?[/QUOTE] I'm not sure what point you're trying to make given that FP's UKIP cheerleaders are currently arguing against Scottish independence in the most derisive tone they can possibly muster Clearly and obviously not the same kind of nationalism, especially given that the SNP has stated time and time again that they are trying to get [I]more[/I] immigrants into scotland whereas UKIP wants the exact opposite.
I wonder how many people are voting yes just for the hell of it.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;45987428]Well it would appear that 50% or more of people in scotland disagree with you.[/QUOTE] And 50% of more of the people here agree with me. We're deciding what we want, not you.
[QUOTE=Holt!;45987557]I wonder how many people are voting yes just for the hell of it.[/QUOTE] yes i'm voting for yes because if it goes through we can have the biggest party ever on the 19th so the real question is why aren't you??
[QUOTE=download;45986696]Scotland has very little to gain and a lot to lose in this.[/QUOTE] but they have one charismatic guy telling them its all gonna be sunshine and haggis if they do vote yes, and sheeple will always go for the empty promises
[QUOTE=Sableye;45987721]sheeple[/QUOTE] opinion discarded
[QUOTE=hexpunK;45987308]It really does just seem like a stupid amount of risk and a waste of time over what boils down to nationalism at most.[/QUOTE] Before I start I'd like to say that I'm undecided, and as someone who actually has a right to vote I'm still trying to figure out what's best. A lot of people write off the Yes campaign as blind nationalism, patriotism and what have you, but there are several reasons as to why Scotland would be better off as an independent country (keep in mind I'm not saying there won't be downsides too). 1. Despite Scotland only voting conservative twice in the last 18 elections, they have ended up in power 9 times. Granted, Scotland has its own parliament at Holyrood, but it was only established in 1997 after the devolved powers referendum. This put a lot of powers into Scotland's hands and allowed them to make university tuition fees free, something which has benefited me personally. Westminster still controls some aspects such as defence, immigration and energy. Bedroom tax and the privatisation of the NHS are two issues the Yes campaign has focused on, with both being decided in Westminster but affecting Scotland. With that being said, there are a proportionate amount of Scottish MPs in Westminster, so it's not like we don't have any say in what goes on there. 2. Scotland pays slightly more than its fair share in taxes to the UK. It's true that Scotland gets more money spent on it than it pays in tax, but projects such as Trident (that the SNP would rather not exist) contribute to these figures. 3. Trident is a colossal waste of money, and only serves to make Scotland a potential threat to anyone actually wanting to start a nuclear war (In which case, we would be boned regardless of whether the UK's 'deterrents' are in Glasgow or London). We can still be a member of NATO, as only 3 out of the 28 current members have their own nuclear weapons. 4. Scotland would most likely be able to remain in the EU and keep using the Pound Sterling, as it is a fully tradeable international currency. There have been claims that Spain would veto Scotland's EU application due to their own problems with states wanting independence, [URL="http://archive.today/eD3YZ"]but their foreign minister stated otherwise.[/URL]
[QUOTE=Amsay;45987749]4. Scotland would most likely be able to remain in the EU and keep using the Pound Sterling, as it is a fully tradeable international currency.[/QUOTE] Unfortunately, Scotland would have no powers over the currency in this case. Since Britain owns the pound and the central banks, it could change monetary policy to suit its own needs. If Scotland needed more pounds, it would be difficult for it to borrow or print currency.
[QUOTE=Robert9734;45987643]We're deciding what we want, not you.[/QUOTE] Ah this must be this globalism, connectivity and multiculturalism I keep hearing so much about, clearly. It's funny that the word "we" and "scots" and "scotlands people" only seem to surface in pro-union stances when you have foreigners who show solidarity for independence
On the 19th fireworks erupt from scottish parliament. Scottish voters firing their AK's into the air as they topple statues of David Cameron
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;45987822]Ah this must be this globalism, connectivity and multiculturalism I keep hearing so much about, clearly. It's funny that the word "we" and "scots" and "scotlands people" only seem to surface in pro-union stances when you have foreigners who show solidarity for independence[/QUOTE] I don't understand?
[QUOTE=Robert9734;45987809]Unfortunately, Scotland would have no powers over the currency in this case. Since Britain owns the pound and the central banks, it could change monetary policy to suit its own needs. If Scotland needed more pounds, it would be difficult for it to borrow or print currency.[/QUOTE] Would it benefit rUK at all to deny Scotland usage of the pound after a yes vote?
Why the fuck would the opinion of top officials from the U.S be any fucking relevant in a foreign country independence debate?
[QUOTE=Robert9734;45987834]I don't understand?[/QUOTE] Once again, you're new to the forum so it might be sort of an in-joke that you've missed. I'm making the statement for the purposes of others who have been defaulting to the "globalism" argument constantly in the indy ref threads of the past year Just pointing out that you're a good example of a nationalistic and inward-looking no voter :eng101:
[QUOTE=Amsay;45987843]Would it benefit rUK at all to deny Scotland usage of the pound after a yes vote?[/QUOTE] Not necessarily, but they're under no obligation to modify monetary policy in their favour. For instance, if Scotland needed to print £1 million in order to inflate the currency, they would have to appeal to the British government to do that. If it isn't in their interest to do that, then Scotland would have to get this extra £1 million from elsewhere. [editline]15th September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=hypno-toad;45987883]I'm making the statement for the purposes of others who have been defaulting to the "globalism" argument constantly in the indy ref threads of the past year[/quote] Who? Why should I care? [quote]Just pointing out that you're a good example of a nationalistic and inward-looking no voter :eng101:[/QUOTE] What a shallow and arrogant view.
[QUOTE=Amsay;45987843]Would it benefit rUK at all to deny Scotland usage of the pound after a yes vote?[/QUOTE] Well, I imagine it'd be preferable to not have an unstable economy tied to their currency. The euro didn't come well out of Greece's collapse, for example.
[QUOTE=Amsay;45987843]Would it benefit rUK at all to deny Scotland usage of the pound after a yes vote?[/QUOTE] I'm sure Scotland would have its own currency in the future at some point, but it would be unfair to the Scots to sever economic ties immediately upon independence. [editline]15th September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Mechanical43;45987882]Why the fuck would the opinion of top officials from the U.S be any fucking relevant in a foreign country independence debate?[/QUOTE] Well, the US [I]is[/I] the leading country in manufacturing toppled governments and foreign intervention :v: Though Russia is quickly trying to out produce us.
Ideas for new scottish currency, GO I vote they just use tartan. The more tartan material they have, the wealthier they are
[QUOTE=Amsay;45987749]Before I start I'd like to say that I'm undecided, and as someone who actually has a right to vote I'm still trying to figure out what's best. A lot of people write off the Yes campaign as blind nationalism, patriotism and what have you, but there are several reasons as to why Scotland would be better off as an independent country (keep in mind I'm not saying there won't be downsides too). 1. Despite Scotland only voting conservative twice in the last 18 elections, they have ended up in power 9 times. Granted, Scotland has its own parliament at Holyrood, but it was only established in 1997 after the devolved powers referendum. This put a lot of powers into Scotland's hands and allowed them to make university tuition fees free, something which has benefited me personally. Westminster still controls some aspects such as defence, immigration and energy. Bedroom tax and the privatisation of the NHS are two issues the Yes campaign has focused on, with both being decided in Westminster but affecting Scotland. With that being said, there are a proportionate amount of Scottish MPs in Westminster, so it's not like we don't have any say in what goes on there. 2. Scotland pays slightly more than its fair share in taxes to the UK. It's true that Scotland gets more money spent on it than it pays in tax, but projects such as Trident (that the SNP would rather not exist) contribute to these figures. 3. Trident is a colossal waste of money, and only serves to make Scotland a potential threat to anyone actually wanting to start a nuclear war (In which case, we would be boned regardless of whether the UK's 'deterrents' are in Glasgow or London). We can still be a member of NATO, as only 3 out of the 28 current members have their own nuclear weapons. 4. Scotland would most likely be able to remain in the EU and keep using the Pound Sterling, as it is a fully tradeable international currency. There have been claims that Spain would veto Scotland's EU application due to their own problems with states wanting independence, [URL="http://archive.today/eD3YZ"]but their foreign minister stated otherwise.[/URL][/QUOTE] To be honest, nobody wanted the god-fucking-Tories in power. They didn't win by any description of the word. It's unfair to blame the rest of the UK for the actions of the parties themselves opting for this stupidity. Though yeah, Trident is basically useless, we're a major player in the world sure, but we're a tiny island. Us having nukes isn't going to change anything. Nobody is willing to launch nukes so long as the US and Russia are armed to the balls anyway.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45987973]I'm sure Scotland would have its own currency in the future at some point, but it would be unfair to the Scots to sever economic ties immediately upon independence. [/QUOTE] If people gave a fuck about fairness to Scotland I doubt the independence debate would even be on the table at this point. I think the one realization Yes voters need to come to is that they and the majority of [B]people[/B] in the world that support them are going to be alone in a world dominated by apathetic and inhuman government and financial systems that don't give a shit about principle of self determination, quality of life or general human dignity. The first 5-10 years of independence will likely be turbulent, but just like what happened with Ireland you're likely to see the Human Development Index and general quality of life/standard of living of Scotland widely surpass that of the UK.
semi related: we have Scottish pounds and English pounds. some places in england don't even take scottish money, last time i was down there i handed over a tenner and they refused to take it. the fuck is that about
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;45988084]If people gave a fuck about fairness to Scotland I doubt the independence debate would even be on the table at this point. I think the one realization Yes voters need to come to is that they and the majority of [B]people[/B] in the world that support them are going to be alone in a world dominated by apathetic and inhuman government and financial systems that don't give a shit about principle of self determination, quality of life or general human dignity. The first 5-10 years of independence will likely be turbulent, but just like what happened with Ireland you're likely to see the Human Development Index and general quality of life/standard of living of Scotland widely surpass that of the UK.[/QUOTE] are you attempting to imply that the no side of the debate is dominated by inhuman governments and financial systems that don't care about quality of life why not just say that the no side is only populated by the mysterons from captain scarlet while you're at it [editline]15th September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Ryz0;45988095]semi related: we have Scottish pounds and English pounds. some places in england don't even take scottish money, last time i was down there i handed over a tenner and they refused to take it. the fuck is that about[/QUOTE] keep your filthy money north of the border pal
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;45988272]are you attempting to imply that the no side of the debate is dominated by inhuman governments and financial systems that don't care about quality of life[/QUOTE] The largest financial and political backing for the no vote has come from: The Tories, the 'Red Tories/Blue Labour', the Orange Order and UKIP.
[QUOTE=Flapadar;45988309]The largest backing for the no vote has come from: The Tories, the 'Red Tories', the Orange Order and UKIP.[/QUOTE] you got any reports or sources that quantify this backing? I don't see why anyone thinks that there is anyone other than politicians on both sides of this debate
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;45988316]you got any reports or sources that quantify this backing?[/QUOTE] The Orange Order march in Edinburgh, Labour sending 100 MP's to Glasgow from England after a Yes poll was ahead, and David Cameron and Farage coming around about the same time. Several of the 'grass roots' no supporting campaigns were exposed to have been created and funded entirely by very rich supporters of the Conservatives (hidden behind a few companies, of course) I don't have the sources on hand but they're all there. [editline].[/editline] The one exception really - is JK Rowling. She contributed a fucktonne of money and I wouldn't count her as any of the above.
[QUOTE=Flapadar;45988309]The largest financial and political backing for the no vote has come from: The Tories, the 'Red Tories/Blue Labour', the Orange Order and UKIP.[/QUOTE] I can do the same for the opposite side as well. The Yes campaign is supported by third world dictators and rich hollywood actors.
[QUOTE=Flapadar;45988337]The Orange Order march in Edinburgh, Labour sending 100 MP's to Glasgow from England after a Yes poll was ahead, and David Cameron and Farage coming around about the same time. Several of the 'grass roots' no supporting campaigns were exposed to have been created and funded entirely by very rich supporters of the Conservatives (hidden behind a few companies, of course) I don't have the sources on hand but they're all there.[/QUOTE] not sure what you're trying to prove other than "the British government doesn't want scotland to leave the union". and what about the 50% or so of scotland that don't want independence according to polls I want scotland to be independent, admittedly only because I fucking hate scotland, but I don't get people trying to show that the british government is behind the side backing the union. why are you surprised
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;45988381]not sure what you're trying to prove other than "the British government doesn't want scotland to leave the union". and what about the 50% or so of scotland that don't want independence according to polls I want scotland to be independent, admittedly only because I fucking hate scotland, but I don't get people trying to show that the british government is behind the side backing the union. why are you surprised[/QUOTE] You wanted an explanation to why some people think No is backed by "inhuman governments and financial systems that don't care about quality of life" - that's what I gave you. The UK government clearly doesn't work well for approx. 50% of people in Scotland by the point where they don't believe we are better together. Probably doesn't help when the government is so condescending about it though. Their latest spin is "If you don't know, vote no". If you don't know, why not just trash your ballot if you're not willing to figure out which side you support.
[QUOTE=Flapadar;45988394]You wanted an explanation to why some people think No is backed by "inhuman governments and financial systems that don't care about quality of life" - that's what I gave you. The UK government clearly doesn't work well for approx. 50% of people in Scotland.[/QUOTE] no I didn't, and no you didn't. I was pointing out that hypno-toad was making an absolutely ridiculous demonisation of one side. like, the UK government isn't great, but it's a long stretch to say that its [I]inhuman[/I] and doesn't care about quality of life. and for 50% of people, it either works well or the alternative is worse; once again, you're not saying anything??
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