• Russia to spend 600Bn on defense modernization
    151 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Paravin;34030654]The USA doesn't threaten Canada or Mexico.[/QUOTE] No, but it does threaten middle east, and not to mention how many bases does it have in other countries.
6 hundred.... BILLION....... rubles. Wait, dollars? That's amazing.
[QUOTE=billyjohn86;34030223]Via RT.com [url]http://rt.com/news/russia-military-reform-123/[/url] [editline]3rd January 2012[/editline] I think the Russian armed forces are fairly modern but they could use some improvement in comparison to other European armies such as Germany, France and the UK.[/QUOTE] Is that 600 billion U.S. or 600 billion Russian dollars? Because in Russian dollars it's probably only like forty dollars in America. :v: [editline]:v:[/editline] Rate me boxes, because I was joking. :v:
[QUOTE=Killuah;34030749]Isn't the US the biggest weapon exporter in the world? [editline]3rd January 2012[/editline] Yes sure keep telling yourself that.[/QUOTE] So you're saying Georgia is not a threat to Russian citizens and that if If you were equipped with a AK-47 you would have a better chance against someone with a more modern setup? [editline]3rd January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Madman_Andre;34030805]Is that 600 billion U.S. or 600 billion Russian dollars? Because in Russian dollars it's probably only like forty dollars in America. :v:[/QUOTE] You're so out of touch with anything beyond the borders of the US of A. Russia uses the ruble, its clearly stated in the article it was in 640Bn USD.
[QUOTE=Ale994145;34030512]The problem with the modern Russian military is that they invest in things that don't require modernization, say for instant the T-90A MBT, which is a modern tank that is capable of taking on Abrams and Challengers, etc but they are investing in developing a new tank to replace it. I think they should Modernize the Airforce's Mig 29s, work on the Navy and get better equipment and training for their ground forces. However at least the Russian high command is wise on what they spend on, unlike America where they throw money into holes. Also the Russians are better off just installing Kontact ERA on some T-80s plus some other modernizations to get a new MBT if they need one so bad.[/QUOTE] When was the last war where tanks actually fought against tanks? Iraq 1?
Hahaha, Russia is funny. It's called "budget sawing" and 599.9bil will be corrupted by deputies. They won't upgrade their military. [IMG]http://rybinsk-onse.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B8%D0%BB-1.jpg[/IMG] Their military is ancient and T-90 is [B]soviet[/B] tank, but still Russians are unable to equip it with all needed electronics. Su-47 is just a prototype and everything else is ancient. Don't trust Russian mass information it's same propaganda as it was 30 years ago. If you want to know what really is there read some real information, i.e. Alexey Navalny's blog.
[QUOTE=Killuah;34030818]When was the last war where tanks actually fought against tanks? Iraq 1?[/QUOTE] [img]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcToH_q8HpOCkHYszXD-l1rvsEEXXLNdnh88eianTgma0jnR7R16NB3Q0_XZ[/img] [editline]3rd January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=GVG-Vit;34030834]Hahaha, Russia is funny. It's called "budget sawing" and 599.9bil will be corrupted by deputies. They won't upgrade their military. [IMG]http://rybinsk-onse.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B8%D0%BB-1.jpg[/IMG] Their military is ancient and T-90 is [B]soviet[/B] tank, but still Russians are unable to equip it with all needed electronics. Su-47 is just a prototype and everything else is ancient. Don't trust Russian mass information it's same propaganda as it was 30 years ago. If you want to know what really is there read some real information, i.e. Alexey Navalny's blog.[/QUOTE] Nominated for dumbest news post of 2012. The SU-47 is discontinued, T-90M isnt a soviet built tank. I guess you're going to say the M1 Abrams is a outdated cold war tank too? I guess the F-18 is bad and outdated too then? FYI the T-90 is equipped with necessary electronic components to fight off other tanks of its class, and Russia has developed the Sukhoi Pak Fa T-50 instead of the Su-47.
[QUOTE=Killuah;34030818]When was the last war where tanks actually fought against tanks? Iraq 1?[/QUOTE] My guess would be: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war[/url] I really have no idea, so many wars are fought with drones, jets and IED's today.
[QUOTE=billyjohn86;34030807]So you're saying Georgia is not a threat to Russian citizens and that if If you were equipped with a AK-47 you would have a better chance against someone with a more modern setup? [/QUOTE] I'm saying Georgia is no threat to Russia as long as Russia accepts that this isn't the UdSSR anymore and leaves the country the fuck alone. Last time in 2008 they took the inner conflict of Georgia as a reason to pretty much steamroll the damn country with their "old" military. They lost between 67 and 400 soldiers in the conflict while Georgia lost between 171 and 3000 soldiers. Now tell me how this does in any way warrant 600 Billion dollars that could very well be spend to prevent, oh, lets say the hundreds of deaths by cold of homeless people in Moscow alone each year or maybe fight the corruption of the police.
[QUOTE=Killuah;34030917]I'm saying Georgia is no threat to Russia as long as Russia accepts that this isn't the UdSSR anymore and leaves the country the fuck alone. Last time in 2008 they took the inner conflict of Georgia as a reason to pretty much steamroll the damn country with their "old" military. They lost between 67 and 400 soldiers in the conflict while Georgia lost between 171 and 3000 soldiers. Now tell me how this does in any way warrant 600 Billion dollars that could very well be spend to prevent, oh, lets say the hundreds of deaths by cold of homeless people in Moscow alone each year or maybe fight the corruption of the police.[/QUOTE] Their military is better trained and equipped then Georgia's was. That does not make their equipment suddenly up to date with modern standards.
[QUOTE=Paravin;34030313]They could rather use the 600Bn to root out their god damn corruption problems, repair/create infrastructure and fix the problems in their society. But no - put more money in the war machine so you can jam your military penis in the neighboring countries.[/QUOTE] Or kill the people who protest against problems that are harder to solve/that you don't want to solve anyway
[QUOTE=billyjohn86;34030850][img]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcToH_q8HpOCkHYszXD-l1rvsEEXXLNdnh88eianTgma0jnR7R16NB3Q0_XZ[/img] [editline]3rd January 2012[/editline] Nominated for dumbest news post of 2012. The SU-47 is discontinued, T-90M isnt a soviet built tank. I guess you're going to say the M1 Abrams is a outdated cold war tank too? I guess the F-18 is bad and outdated too then?[/QUOTE] T-90 was developed in USSR, not in modern Russia. Their military is all soviet and they could not develop something new for 20 years. M1 is ok. Does it's work. F-18 is ok too but don't forget about F-22 and others. There is no Russian competitor here. Su-47 isn't discounted, it's under eternal "development".
[QUOTE=billyjohn86;34030936]Their military is better trained and equipped then Georgia's was. That does not make their equipment suddenly up to date with modern standards.[/QUOTE] My point was that it was sufficient for the Georgia conflict and thus the example of "Georgia is a rogue country Russia needs to upgrade for that" is invalid.
[QUOTE=GVG-Vit;34030958]T-90 was developed in USSR, not in modern Russia. Their military is all soviet and they could not develop something new for 20 years. M1 is ok. Does it's work. F-18 is ok too but don't forget about F-22 and others. There is no Russian competitor here.[/QUOTE] Russia's Su-34 is superior to the F-18, the T-50 PAK FA is kind of late but it can out do the F-22 in combat situations and has farther range while maintaining its goal of a semi-stealth fighter jet AND its CHEAPER. The T-90 is a major development from the T-72, it is not a soviet tank.. and it is still being further developed with the T-90M. You're being really dumb please source your arguments. Oh and the M1, F-18 are both cold war tanks.. which from your point of view makes them automatically inferior to everything else. [editline]3rd January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Killuah;34030969]My point was that it was sufficient for the Georgia conflict and thus the example of "Georgia is a rogue country Russia needs to upgrade for that" is invalid.[/QUOTE] Okay, why are the other European armys upgrading their forces, or have completed upgrading their forces if you're going to pull that excuse, from what you're trying to say I gather you would rather have Russia's army flying soviet flags on T34's.
[QUOTE=GVG-Vit;34030958]T-90 was developed in USSR, not in modern Russia. Their military is all soviet and they could not develop something new for 20 years. M1 is ok. Does it's work. F-18 is ok too but don't forget about F-22 and others. There is no Russian competitor here. Su-47 isn't discounted, it's under eternal "development".[/QUOTE] are you serious Last time M1 Abrams was in a tank battle, was, as far as i recall, in Iraq, against shit Russian T55s, T62s and Iraqi built T72s with inferior crews. So basically, the only armour it has really fought, are incredibly outdated tanks. T90's haven't had a chance to prove themselves much in combat, other than in Georgia. Neither has the Abrams against a modern tank. Think your shit through.
Good for the US in some ways though [quote]Anatoly Serdyukov said Russia might purchase military technology from the U.S. for the first time. He mentioned Russian military could be interested in buying the automated command systems, information technology and "smart" weapons.[/quote]
I'd also add that the T-90's completely raped Georgia's entire armored force.
[QUOTE=billyjohn86;34030993]Russia's Su-34 is superior to the F-18, the T-50 PAK FA is kind of late but it can out do the F-22 in combat situations and has farther range while maintaining its goal of a semi-stealth fighter jet AND its CHEAPER. The T-90 is a major development from the T-72, it is not a soviet tank.. and it is still being further developed with the T-90M. You're being really dumb please source your arguments. [editline]3rd January 2012[/editline] Okay, why are the other European armys upgrading their forces, or have completed upgrading their forces if you're going to pull that excuse, from what you're trying to say I gather you would rather have Russia's army flying soviet flags on T34's.[/QUOTE] Why do you insist that equal armies are necessary nowadays? 1 day without Russian oil and gas and Europe is fucked beyond believe. The big nations simply can't have wars nowadays because of globalization.
to be fair though, I'd put this in the unlikely political promises box though probably end up half price and twice as effective though
[QUOTE=Killuah;34031079]Why do you insist that equal armies are necessary nowadays? 1 day without Russian oil and gas and Europe is fucked beyond believe. The big nations simply can't have wars nowadays because of globalization.[/QUOTE] Deterrence, political power and influence.
Yes, Russia is superb but for some magic reasons most Russians don't want to live there(excluding Putin's fans). Maybe because it's too safe? :downs:
[QUOTE=GVG-Vit;34031108]Yes, Russia is superb but for some magic reasons most Russians don't want to live there(excluding Putin's fans). Maybe because it's too safe country? :downs:[/QUOTE] Then why do more people immigrate to Russia every year then those who decide to leave Russia every year? Atleast Russia is more stable then most other post soviet states such as [B]Ukraine.[/B]
[QUOTE=billyjohn86;34031101]Deterrence, political power and influence.[/QUOTE] All come from economy nowadays. It's like you are not even trying to understand my point.
[QUOTE=billyjohn86;34031123]Then why do more people immigrate to Russia every year then those who decide to leave Russia every year?[/QUOTE] Because the western media likes to make it seem like they have extremely high emigration levels, and that emigration levels are related to how nice is it to live there for instance my country has half it's population living in the two 'most livable' cities in the world, is second or top at the human development index and so on, yet it had the same level of emigration as Russia, a state with a population about 10x larger, has
[QUOTE=billyjohn86;34031123]Then why do more people immigrate to Russia every year then those who decide to leave Russia every year?[/QUOTE] From what countries? I'll answer: [QUOTE]Especially a lot of migrant workers, according to the FMS, comes from Ukraine (16.9%), Uzbekistan (10.4%), Tajikistan (9.7%), Turkey (10%) and China (20.8%).[/QUOTE] And so on. PS what about Ukraine, so yes, it's unstable, mainly because of strong Russian influence on east part of country(shithole). But for some reason I don't notice any instability for me. :v:
[QUOTE=Killuah;34031145]All come from economy nowadays. It's like you are not even trying to understand my point.[/QUOTE] I would have liked to see how Russia could have effectively crushed the Chechens or Georgians with economic might alone
[QUOTE=billyjohn86;34031123]Then why do more people immigrate to Russia every year then those who decide to leave Russia every year? Atleast Russia is more stable then most other post soviet states such as [B]Ukraine.[/B][/QUOTE] Because 4 million of the 4.3 million immigrants per year are illegal. Russia is big and can't control its borders.
[QUOTE=GVG-Vit;34031108]Yes, Russia is superb but for some magic reasons most Russians don't want to live there(excluding Putin's fans). Maybe because it's too safe? :downs:[/QUOTE] All magic, sunshine and bunnies in Russia is far too much for me. That's why I ditched it for much more shitty Scandinavian living.
[QUOTE=Contag;34031154]I would have liked to see how Russia could have effectively crushed the Chechens or Georgians with economic might alone[/QUOTE] Just like they did with Belarus in the last oil/gas conflict. [editline]3rd January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Contag;34031154]I would have liked to see how Russia could have effectively crushed the Chechens or Georgians with economic might alone[/QUOTE] Just like they did with Belarus in the last oil/gas conflict.
Strong Russian army. [video=youtube;RdTFovi2mtc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdTFovi2mtc[/video] So so strong and for some reason most Russians don't want to be drafted. [QUOTE=Jack Trades;34031200]All magic, sunshine and bunnies in Russia is far too much for me. That's why I ditched it for much more shitty Scandinavian living.[/QUOTE] You just don't deserve it! :v:
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