Greece strikes back: says Germany still owes them money FROM WWII.
55 replies, posted
Greece should demand licensing fees on democracy.
People are always like, well the Euro and the EU worked for a while!
and I am like, that is because nothing went wrong
at the first major recession the whole thing is at risk of falling apart
[QUOTE=person11;37638233]People are always like, well the Euro and the EU worked for a while!
and I am like, that is because nothing went wrong
at the first major recession the whole thing is at risk of falling apart[/QUOTE]
Well, this is the real test of the EU. Just because there is strain right now doesn't mean the idea is an inherently good or bad one, only that it might need to be refined.
I mean, you don't look at a plane crash and say "we should never put a plane into the air again!". You say "let's build a better plane!"
[QUOTE=wraithcat;37633765].
I never understood why americans believe that China holds the majority of youro debt.[/QUOTE]
xenophobia, yellow scare, etc. them dang dun chiners gonna infringe on ma rights.
PFFFTTT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Nice try Greece.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;37638340]Well, this is the real test of the EU. Just because there is strain right now doesn't mean the idea is an inherently good or bad one, only that it might need to be refined.
I mean, you don't look at a plane crash and say "we should never put a plane into the air again!". You say "let's build a better plane!"[/QUOTE]
It is a good idea, but having one currency between rich and poor countries was a terrible idea.
Why did Greece get the Euro? Who thought that was a good idea?
[QUOTE=Edthefirst;37638201]Greece should demand licensing fees on democracy.[/QUOTE]
So they'll get like.... Nothing?
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/TS7R0.jpg[/IMG]
Greece is gonna get the boot from the rest of Europe really soon with that behavior.
[QUOTE=person11;37638767]It is a good idea, but having one currency between rich and poor countries was a terrible idea.
Why did Greece get the Euro? Who thought that was a good idea?[/QUOTE]
It wasn't. Considering that Greece had to cheat to get in, it is an even worse idea.
The main problem with a common currency is that now the less competitive countries simply can't devalue to compete with German exports, so they are literally getting fucked. The Germans of course profited handsomely from the euro, but now that the currency is threatened, they need to rethink some of the mechanisms of the optimal currency area.
I advocate a smaller, stronger eurozone, but getting these peripheral countries out is no easy task. Either way, Europe's economy is gonna be mired in sluggish growth/recession for the foreseeable future.
[QUOTE=person11;37638767]It is a good idea, but having one currency between rich and poor countries was a terrible idea.
Why did Greece get the Euro? Who thought that was a good idea?[/QUOTE]
Because Goldman and Sachs majorly helped them to fake their balances.
Guess who worked for G&S in 2005? Yes, Mario Draghi, the guy who said that he'd bail out Greece under all circumstances.
[editline]12th September 2012[/editline]
Did I mention Greece has around 4 billion of debt at G&S alone?
Heh, they get a bail out from Germany and then they turn their back and do this. Won't be surprised if:
A. Germany leaves the Union
B. Greece is kicked out of the Union
[QUOTE=jiafei9014;37639428]It wasn't. Considering that Greece had to cheat to get in, it is an even worse idea.
The main problem with a common currency is that now the less competitive countries simply can't devalue to compete with German exports, so they are literally getting fucked. The Germans of course profited handsomely from the euro, but now that the currency is threatened, they need to rethink some of the mechanisms of the optimal currency area.
I advocate a smaller, stronger eurozone, but getting these peripheral countries out is no easy task. Either way, Europe's economy is gonna be mired in sluggish growth/recession for the foreseeable future.[/QUOTE]
Oh my god I can't hit the agree button harder.
Greece lied about their economic strength and debts when being considered for the Euro. The Euro is a fantastic idea, for top tier economies (Scandinavian countries, France, Germany, UK, etc.). A way of helping alleviate the pressures on a struggling economy is through monetary policy, but Greece has no control over that. If Greece did, they'd just devalue the shit out of there currency, boosting exports and tourism. Too bad a strong Euro is exactly what Germany wants.
My opinion? Axe Greece from the EU. Unless Greece is allowed to switch to their own currency but maintain the other EU benefits, Greece needs to be kicked out for their own sake and for the sake of the rest of the European Union.
Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.
i'm pretty sure there are other countries are still owed money by germany from the second world war
[QUOTE=sonerin;37639293][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/TS7R0.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
is there more of these
i need them
[QUOTE=gtanoofa;37633409]Uhh...didn't they give us 10 million back in the 40's or 50's or something?
[/QUOTE]
Um, actually, I'm pretty sure that the only economic support Greece got was a ridiculously minor assistance by the Allies.
The German Occupation killed 4.5% of greek population, all whilst emptying the national banks. While Greece has a legal right to [B]demand[/B] reparations (there's a legal precedent with Poland, according to the NY Times), and while the reparations would probably prove to be a huge boost in greek economy, it would most probably put Germany in a huge debt.
As such, Greece can't expect Germany to actually pay them back (although they have every obligation to do so), but Germany ought to adopt a more lenient stance towards Greece. Instead, Germany is among the Eurozone countries most aggressive to Greece, while the families of Holocaust victims in Greece have been laughed off German courts some months ago.
Yeah, Germany will refuse to pay back, no shit, but I don't get FP's eagerness to side with the German government. It's an asshole move to refuse to pay back one debt and make threats while collecting another one.
EDIT:
And yeah, this [I]miiiight[/I] be part of the reason that xenophobic dicks like the Golden Dawn may keep getting elected. When all the stuff that comes from German newspapers is condescending criticism and Merkel seems to not have a clue of the sociopolitical situation in Greece, it's not very difficult for uneducated people to feel threatened and support extremist ultranationalist ideologies.
I'm really surprised with the negativity against Greece here. I of course agree with the dumbfuckness of our politicians and perhaps tax evaders, but accusing normal citizens of Greece of this situation is some big bullshit and you know it.
[QUOTE=i_speel_good;37641938]I'm really surprised with the negativity against Greece here. I of course agree with the dumbfuckness of our politicians and perhaps tax evaders, but accusing normal citizens of Greece of this situation is some big bullshit and you know it.[/QUOTE]
I don't see that, in fact I think all the normal citizens are getting fucked over by the politicians.
Re-reading the thread I'm not seeing the hate for the Greek everyman... o.O
[QUOTE=i_speel_good;37641938]I'm really surprised with the negativity against Greece here. I of course agree with the dumbfuckness of our politicians and perhaps tax evaders, but accusing normal citizens of Greece of this situation is some big bullshit and you know it.[/QUOTE]
Well the typical vacation resort owner were doing tax evasion like it's a matter of life & death.
But no-one in the thread said they hated the people in Greece, it was more indirectly targeted at the politicians.
And allow me to make an analogy between post-WW1 Germany and 2012 Greece.
The Triple Entente, having obviously little empathy for the German people, let alone any foresight, forced the Germans to switch from a high quality of life to an utter shit one, for things that the German people specifically didn't feel responsible for. Cut to a few years later, extremist ideologies such as nazism get huge popular support.
Interestingly, a lot of the immigrants who worked hard along with the Germans and as a result rebuilt Germany were Greek.
Now, Greeks, having passed through two world wars and one genocide with several casualties and a complete destruction of their economy, along with a civil war severly influenced by their western "allies" , have to start rebuilding from scratch, whilst receiving pretty much no reparations, develop a flawed economy with no economical basis or manpower (all the men were dead or starved to a pitiful state) to kickstart it. A series of recessions, most recently the 2008 one, show the cracks in the system, and cut to present day, with people who have seen up to 70% cuts to their already relatively low salaries over the past 4 years.
If the German Government wants to get out of their way, and demand even more austerity measures with a much more aggressive manner than the rest of the Eurozone members, they'll be idiots (considering their own history) if they don't expect a huge anti-German movement.
And while the government probably deserves it, the way this movement has manifested itself has given rise to ultranationalism and racism, concepts severly hurtful to the greek social structure.
Neither the Germans of the post-WW1 society, nor the austerity-ridden Greeks of today are fundamentally evil. It is to be expected that with so much pressure being put on a society, hateful movements are bound to rise.
We should just kick Greece out already.
Or let Turkey buy it.
[QUOTE=Techno-Man;37633728]Greece may be leaving the Euro real soon now.[/QUOTE]
I would be for them leaving Europe geographically, honestly.
They have dropped the ball since the ancient times.
Just saw them off and let them be an island which can do whatever it wants.
[QUOTE=Van-man;37642024]But no-one in the thread said they hated the people in Greece, it was more indirectly targeted at the politicians.[/QUOTE]
It's a popular sentiment amongst Greeks that Germany should either pay up, or lay off the pressure.
The fact that politicians are just now making moves is nothing more than an attempt to fish some votes.
If someone considers that sentiment uncalled for, or ridiculous, they may as well relay their hate to the entirety of society. Politicians are a hilariously easy target.
[QUOTE=Pat4ever;37641083]Heh, they get a bail out from Germany and then they turn their back and do this. Won't be surprised if:
A. Germany leaves the Union
B. Greece is kicked out of the Union[/QUOTE]
Germany would be the last country to leave the union...
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