I honestly didn't know the English still use imperial extensively. I thought the only arbitrary measurement they use were stones for weight.
Personally, the only time I ever use metric is with scientific measurements/calculations and guesstimating distances longer than 30 feet.
The second part was only because I play Arma quite a bit.
They should ween younger people onto metric (as we are doing now) while keeping both systems alive for the sake of old people.
There will eventually be a point in the future where people will question why we're still using an archaic measurement system which no one could understand. At that point, imperial could go without incident.
But for now, imperial should stay for the sake of clarity for everyone.
[QUOTE=TestECull;46440892]
And besides, America already uses metric where it has to. Dealing with the rest of the world, usually. It doesn't matter what the average joe measures things with, the important people doing the global wheeling and dealing use metric.[/QUOTE]
Unless it's changed in the past 3 years, America still uses the Imperial system in dealing with other countries. My stepfather works (in the UK) for an American engineering company - all of the stuff they make use the Imperial measurement system, and that gets exported and used all over the world, and used in parts of other systems which use the metric system - it's a bit of a mess, and had led to disasters in the past. Take this one for example:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter[/url]
It crashed and burned up in the atmosphere because somewhere along the line, someone was working in Imperial and everyone else was working in metric
Of course, that's an extreme example but it just goes to show - it IS a real problem people still need to look out for and consider. Just another point of failure
[QUOTE=credesniper;46439834][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7x-RGfd0Yk[/media]
As an American, I haven't heard of much less use over half the units he's used in this video, but it should be clear the imperial system is easier to work with is because of its conversion factor. Unfortunately, I've used imperial all my life and that's all I can think in. I can't imagine how long a meter is, or how much a kg feels. Miles for distances just feels a ton easier.[/QUOTE]
It seems like this guy is trying to prove how convoluted and unweildy the imperial system is, and the joke is flying right over your head.
[QUOTE=Mastermind of42;46441557]I honestly didn't know the English still use imperial extensively. I thought the only arbitrary measurement they use were stones for weight.
Personally, the only time I ever use metric is with scientific measurements/calculations and guesstimating distances longer than 30 feet.
The second part was only because I play Arma quite a bit.
They should ween younger people onto metric (as we are doing now) while keeping both systems alive for the sake of old people.
There will eventually be a point in the future where people will question why we're still using an archaic measurement system which no one could understand. At that point, imperial could go without incident.
But for now, imperial should stay for the sake of clarity for everyone.[/QUOTE]
I don't know anyone younger than 30 who was taught using the Imperial system - the only day-to-day use of it I know is for mph and miles (and, frustratingly, sometimes height and weight)
Metric is objectively better but part of me wants to stay on imperial because of how many neckbeards get all high and mighty about it.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;46441395]Just a question, but if the US were to, say, switch to metric and make all speed limits on km/h, what happens to all of the cars that have their speedos in mph?
I mean I am entirely in favor of the standardization of the metric system, especially in the U.S, but it feels like the damage is already done[/QUOTE]
All new manufactured cars come with Km/h only, signs display both mph and kmh, and then eventually like 10-15 years later, remove all mph signs
Any time anyone argues in favor of the imperial system their reasoning is usually "I LIKE IT BECAUSE IT'S WHAT IM USED TO" which is quite frankly a fucking idiotic argument
and to anyone that thinks that its ok to keep it around because American scientists/engineers can "just use metric for their calculations!", ask a mechanical engineer what their manufacturing equipment is measured in, or asking an environmental engineer how USGS land maps are graded. I can guarantee you that pretty much anyone in any sort of profession that uses measurements has encountered a conversion problem, and it slows down productivity and even can cause accidents.
the imperial system is a god damned pain in the ass to use and [I]fuck you[/I] if you are too lazy to try and understand metric.
Sincerely,
Literally everyone in any scientific field
[QUOTE=proboardslol;46441646]Metric is objectively better but part of me wants to stay on imperial because of how many neckbeards get all high and mighty about it.[/QUOTE]
I think we've reached the point where the term "neckbeard" has lost all its meaning
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46440851]1776 x 5280 = 9377280 feet x 12 = 112527360 inches.
Imperial measurements aren't that hard to learn. It's just like memorizing any other formula or value in maths.
Maybe we should also change the value of pi to 3 because 3.14159265... is obviously too hard to remember.[/QUOTE]
Comparing arbitrary numbers to a mathematical constant.
Real smart people defending the imperial system here.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;46439362]Imperial is an important measurement system, just because "I would walk 800 kilometers" would sound stupid in a song. "Almost 3 kilometers, almost 3 kilometers, almost 3 kilometers onward" is not particularly poetic.
Apart from that, fuck it.[/QUOTE]
That and 7 inches or 1 and a half feet or whatever is easier to visualize than 18 centimeters or 45 centimeters. Buying a 30 centimeter-long sub doesn't particularly roll off the tongue either.
[QUOTE=SoaringScout;46441072]Except the problem wasn't simply caused by stubbornness, it was caused by disorganization and poor planning. [/QUOTE]
NASA and Lockheed Martin fucking destroyed a 130 million dollar mars orbiter, wasting 286 days of mission time and unimaginably colossal quantities of man hours and effort because of a conversion error. If an error of that magnitude can occur in an environment of intense scrutiny amongst some of the best engineers and scientists in the world, the number of unreported errors occuring regularly in less rigorous applications can only be imagined.
The [b]entire point[/b] of having a universal standard of measurement is to increase the accuracy of communicating quantities. The very existence of the US customary system in modern society is detrimental to that goal; needing to convert between "everyday units" and "science units" is a pointless and unacceptable source of error which exists at every level.
There are no valid arguments against metrication besides people being too lazy to change. Unit conversion to US customary is a major and tangible source of economic and time inefficiency which far outweighs the one-time cost of metrication. Saying that it's not a huge deal to convert between the two completely neglects to consider the losses created when unit conversions happen at scales of millions and billions of applications.
[url]http://www.jstor.org/stable/6067?seq=5[/url]
This article written in fucking 1915 estimated annual losses at the time to be 315 million dollars. Given globalization and inflation that estimate is probably over 3 magnitudes too low to apply to current time.
It is very [b]unfortunate[/b], but there are a decent number of companies which still rely on imperial, primarily in construction and aero/space, and I can certainly tell you that it's still taught in engineering. Try doing kinetic, thermodynamic or fluids equations with fucking bullshit like slugs, pound-mass vs pound-force, BTU, rankine etc, then see if its still intuitive.
[url]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_constant[/url]
Note how 8.314 gas constant is a repeating value until you get to imperial units. [b]ft lbf R^−1 lb-mol^−1[/b]? What the [i]fuck [/i]is that even. What the fuck is a british thermal unit? "It is the amount of energy needed to cool or heat one pound of water by one degree Fahrenheit." Fucking incredible. This entire measurement system should've been consigned to history over half a century ago.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;46441395]Just a question, but if the US were to, say, switch to metric and make all speed limits on km/h, what happens to all of the cars that have their speedos in mph?
I mean I am entirely in favor of the standardization of the metric system, especially in the U.S, but it feels like the damage is already done[/QUOTE]
I assume this is one of the reasons speed limits in the UK are still shown in imperial. It would be chaos if that changed.
[QUOTE=Kljunas;46441518]Are you going to argue that 1776 * 5280 * 12 is just as easy as 1776 * 1000 * 100?[/QUOTE]
Yes, multiplication is multiplication. If you need a handicap because you can't maths then go ahead and use metric.
[QUOTE=Kljunas;46441518]And Pi is the very definition of a circle's proportions, we can't change it. But if we could of course we would.[/QUOTE]
Pi is an [I]approximation[/I] of a circle's circumference, it's an irrational number.
[QUOTE=paul simon;46441574]It seems like this guy is trying to prove how convoluted and unweildy the imperial system is, and the joke is flying right over your head.[/QUOTE]
If you watch his video that that is a follow up to (about paper sizes) its even more clear.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442118]Yes, multiplication is multiplication. If you need a handicap because you can't maths then go ahead and use metric.[/QUOTE]
Are you literally fucking arguing that its less intelligent to use a consistent organized system based on magnitude over completely arbitrary multipliers
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442118]Pi is an [I]approximation[/I] of a circle's circumference, it's an irrational number.[/QUOTE]
I'm speechless
[editline]a[/editline]
"3.14159" is an approximation of the ratio between a circle's circumference and its ratio. Pi is an irrational number [b]because it is[/b] the ratio between a circle's circumference and its ratio.
That is to say "3.14159" is an approximation of Pi to 6 sig-figs, Pi being literally the real ratio. Its a basically a natural law.
Why are you attempting to argue topics you don't even superficially understand?
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442118]Yes, multiplication is multiplication. If you need a handicap because you can't maths then go ahead and use metric.
[/QUOTE]
You can call it a "handicap" or a fucking time saver. Can you do those two calculations equally fast?
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442118]Pi is an [I]approximation[/I] of a circle's circumference, it's an irrational number.[/QUOTE]
Just because Pi has an infinite number of decimals does [B]NOT[/B] mean it's an approximation.
Interesting fact about Pi:
[video=youtube;FpyrF_Ci2TQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpyrF_Ci2TQ[/video]
My fucking god, the amount of people who start saying "Well, 80 mph sounds more right and ear-pleasant than 128,7 kph" (Someone literally said that, but can't find the post)
In that case, our Estonian (and throughout entire Europe) of 50 kph, 90 kph and 120 kph sound more pleasant than 31 mph, 43 mph and 74.
See how fucking short-sighted that logic is?
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442118]Pi is an [I]approximation[/I] of a circle's circumference, it's an irrational number.[/QUOTE]
what is this even supposed to mean
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442118]Pi is an [I]approximation[/I] of a circle's circumference, it's an irrational number.[/QUOTE]
Pi is the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter.
22/7 is an approximation of pi.
[QUOTE=Lalelalala;46442157]Just because Pi has an infinite number of decimals does [B]NOT[/B] mean it's an approximation.[/QUOTE]
Usually when you calculate with Pi, you're in 50/50 cases allowed to use only 3,14.
[QUOTE=Shogoll;46442093]NASA and Lockheed Martin fucking destroyed a 130 million dollar mars orbiter, wasting 286 days of mission time and unimaginably colossal quantities of man hours and effort because of a conversion error. If an error of that magnitude can occur in an environment of intense scrutiny amongst some of the best engineers and scientists in the world, the number of unreported errors occuring regularly in less rigorous applications can only be imagined.
The [b]entire point[/b] of having a universal standard of measurement is to increase the accuracy of communicating quantities. The very existence of the US customary system in modern society is detrimental to that goal; needing to convert between "everyday units" and "science units" is a pointless and unacceptable source of error which exists at every level.
There are no valid arguments against metrication besides people being too lazy to change. Unit conversion to US customary is a major and tangible source of economic and time inefficiency which far outweighs the one-time cost of metrication. Saying that it's not a huge deal to convert between the two completely neglects to consider the losses created when unit conversions happen at scales of millions and billions of applications.
[url]http://www.jstor.org/stable/6067?seq=5[/url]
This article written in fucking 1915 estimated annual losses at the time to be 315 million dollars. Given globalization and inflation that estimate is probably over 3 magnitudes too low to apply to current time.
It is very [b]unfortunate[/b], but there are a decent number of companies which still rely on imperial, primarily in construction and aero/space, and I can certainly tell you that it's still taught in engineering. Try doing kinetic, thermodynamic or fluids equations with fucking bullshit like slugs, pound-mass vs pound-force, BTU, rankine etc, then see if its still intuitive.
[url]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_constant[/url]
Note how 8.314 gas constant is a repeating value until you get to imperial units. [b]ft lbf R^−1 lb-mol^−1[/b]? What the [i]fuck [/i]is that even. What the fuck is a british thermal unit? "It is the amount of energy needed to cool or heat one pound of water by one degree Fahrenheit." Fucking incredible. This entire measurement system should've been consigned to history over half a century ago.[/QUOTE]
I'm not arguing against scientific and engineering fields becoming metric. I agree that they absolutely should. I'm just arguing that the US does not need to change the measurements used in infrastructure. Teaching the metric system is a simple task, coughing up non-existent money that must be put towards our already crumbling bridges is not.
tl;dr all im saying is that changing U.S. road signs is a waste of money we don't have
[QUOTE=Jsm;46442110]I assume this is one of the reasons speed limits in the UK are still shown in imperial. It would be chaos if that changed.[/QUOTE]
Speedometers in the UK show both MPH and KPH
[IMG]http://i60.tinypic.com/2j4r80k.jpg[/IMG]
The total counter is in miles, but on modern cars it's shown electronically so can presumably be changed easily
[QUOTE=Duck M.;46441395]Just a question, but if the US were to, say, switch to metric and make all speed limits on km/h, what happens to all of the cars that have their speedos in mph?
I mean I am entirely in favor of the standardization of the metric system, especially in the U.S, but it feels like the damage is already done[/QUOTE]
The vast majority of active cars here already have been manufactured with both MPH and KPH on the speedometer for quite some time, so that actually isn't as much of an issue as it might seem. For the ones that don't, I can't imagine conversion of the board being that particularly expensive as an operation (though that may vary considerably based on the model).
[QUOTE=lazyguy;46439524]My post was about how this "benefit" is nullified if your figure isn't a power of ten.
[editline]8th November 2014[/editline]
Why are metric weenies incapable of taking a joke?[/QUOTE]
I also feel the need to point out how fucking terrible this post is, because if imperial was used in computer science we'd have 12 bits in a byte, 3 bytes in a kilobyte, 5280 kilobytes in a megabyte and so forth.
They'd also be named stupid shit like rat, dog, tiger, or something because a rat bites you 3 times but a dog bites you more and a tiger bites a lot :downs:
[editline]a[/editline]
[QUOTE=SoaringScout;46442233]
tl;dr all im saying is that changing U.S. road signs is a waste of money we don't have[/QUOTE]
That's the thing though, the very point is that if the entire society switches to scientific standard for units, future scientists and engineers growing up in that society are better prepared to deal with metric quantities intuitively, the general populace understands numerical scientific values, less time is spent teaching imperial etc.
In the long term the cumulative positive effect of metrication will make any initial investment seem like a rounding error. There would be money to fix those bridges if time, money, and human effort wasn't being nickel and dimed away converting idiotic units.
[QUOTE=Shogoll;46442137]Are you literally fucking arguing that its less intelligent to use a consistent organized system based on magnitude over completely arbitrary multipliers[/QUOTE]
It's hilarious that you're getting so worked up over another country using something different from you. It's like trying to argue why Japan has 3-4 different voltages of mains power distribution or why you drive on the wrong side of the road.
I prefer imperial and see nothing wrong with using it. Metric has it's place but forcing it down everyone's throat because you don't like it is idiotic.
[QUOTE=Shogoll;46442137]I'm speechless[/QUOTE]
That Pi is an irrational number? It's been a known fact for a long time.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_number[/url]
[QUOTE=Shogoll;46442246]I also feel the need to point out how fucking terrible this post is, because if imperial was used in computer science we'd have 12 bits in a byte, 3 bytes in a kilobyte, 5280 kilobytes in a megabyte and so forth.
They'd also be named stupid shit like rat, dog, tiger, or something because rat bites you 3 times but a dog bites you more and a tiger bites a lot :downs:[/QUOTE]
You do know that a byte is an arbitrary definition right? There were 7 bit bytes, 9 bit bytes, 11 bit bytes and numerous others used in some computer hardware and software.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442277]That Pi is an irrational number? It's been a known fact for a long time.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_number[/url][/QUOTE]
how on earth does that make pi an "approximation" of the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a circle?
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442277]It's hilarious that you're getting so worked up over another country using something different from you. It's like trying to argue why Japan has 3-4 different voltages of mains power distribution or why you drive on the wrong side of the road.
[B]I prefer imperial and see nothing wrong with using it. Metric has it's place but forcing it down everyone's throat because you don't like it is idiotic.[/B]
[/quote]
and that it LITERALLY your only argument, which, as I noted, is making life a hell of a lot more difficult for people trying to build/make/calculate shit
[QUOTE=Shogoll;46442246]That's the thing though, the very point is that if the entire society switches to scientific standard for units, future scientists and engineers growing up in that society are better prepared to deal with metric quantities intuitively, the general populace understands numerical scientific values, less time is spent teaching imperial etc.
In the long term the cumulative positive effect of metrication will make any initial investment seem like a rounding error. There would be money to fix those bridges if time, money, and human effort wasn't being nickel and dimed away converting idiotic units.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you're getting what I'm saying.
The US is [B]out of money[/B] when it comes to infrastructure
We do not even have enough to support bare minimal maintenance of infrastructure, let alone improvement.
We [B]cannot[/B] pay the cost of investing in metrication because we don't have money to do anything but just barely keep our bridges and roads almost safe.
[QUOTE=SoaringScout;46442343]I don't think you're getting what I'm saying.
The US is [B]out of money[/B] when it comes to infrastructure
We do not even have enough to support bare minimal maintenance of infrastructure, let alone improvement.
We [B]cannot[/B] pay the cost of investing in metrication because we don't have money to do anything but just barely keep our bridges and roads almost safe.[/QUOTE]
road signs are regularly replaced pretty much everywhere
it would literally be as simple as replacing the old damaged signs when they fail with new metric signs instead of new imperial ones like we already do
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