[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442277]That Pi is an irrational number? It's been a known fact for a long time.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_number[/url][/QUOTE]
Again, that Pi is an irrational number does [B]not[/B] mean it's an approximation!
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442277]It's hilarious that you're getting so worked up over another country using something different from you. It's like trying to argue why Japan has 3-4 different voltages of mains power distribution or why you drive on the wrong side of the road.[/QUOTE]
See the problem is the US is ranked #1 for GDP in the world so fucking around like this wastes effort on the scale of the entire world economy, and everyone gets to put up with the bullshit.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442277]I prefer imperial and see nothing wrong with using it. Metric has it's place but forcing it down everyone's throat because you don't like it is idiotic.[/QUOTE]
It is not opinion, but rather the part where the unintuitive, less scientifically applicable unit system actually has negative real world effects.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442277]That Pi is an irrational number? It's been a known fact for a long time.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_number[/url][/QUOTE]
No the part where you failed to have a 7th grade understanding of what pi actually means
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442277]You do know that a byte is an arbitrary definition right? There were 7 bit bytes, 9 bit bytes, 11 bit bytes and numerous others used in some computer hardware and software.[/QUOTE]
yes but none of those are standard because sets of 8 (2^3) work best in a base-2 counting system like decimal, [b]much like magnitudes of 10 work best in a base-10 counting system like everyone uses[/b]
I'm worked up more at the inherent lack of logic and forethought you're displaying and less about the unit systems proper.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442277]It's hilarious that you're getting so worked up over another country using something different from you. It's like trying to argue why Japan has 3-4 different voltages of mains power distribution or why you drive on the wrong side of the road.
I prefer imperial and see nothing wrong with using it. Metric has it's place but forcing it down everyone's throat because you don't like it is idiotic.
That Pi is an irrational number? It's been a known fact for a long time.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_number[/url]
You do know that a byte is an arbitrary definition right? There were 7 bit bytes, 9 bit bytes, 11 bit bytes and numerous others used in some computer hardware and software.[/QUOTE]
It's necessary to "force it down everyone's throat" so we don't have fucking clusterfuck of systems where nobody can reliable calculate anything without others getting confused.
The mars climate orbiter for example failed simply because somewhere in its design imperial units were used when metric was expected. We can't afford these kind of dumb mistakes with space travel.
[QUOTE=Lalelalala;46442370]Again, that Pi is an irrational number does [B]not[/B] mean it's an approximation![/QUOTE]
dude he [I]prefers the imperial system[/I] do you think he knows [B]anything[/B] about mathematics, or has a need to use them on a daily basis?
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;46442333]and that it LITERALLY your only argument, which, as I noted, is making life a hell of a lot more difficult for people trying to build/make/calculate shit[/QUOTE]
I don't have difficulty building / making / calculating stuff in imperial and I know plenty of other people that don't either? It's the same with anything, if you refuse to learn it then of course it will be hard.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442435]I don't have difficulty building / making / calculating stuff in imperial and I know plenty of other people that don't either? It's the same with anything, if you refuse to learn it then of course it will be hard.[/QUOTE]
You will, however, most certainly run into difficulty when building/making/calculating stuff together with 96% of the world's population, which is the real problem.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;46442358]road signs are regularly replaced pretty much everywhere
it would literally be as simple as replacing the old damaged signs when they fail with new metric signs instead of new imperial ones like we already do[/QUOTE]
After reading the Repair and Replacement section of this: [url]http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/local_rural/training/fhwasa09025/#c10[/url] it seems to me that they aren't repaired on some sort of schedule, but rather whenever necessary. If that's the schedule by which they replace signs, I'd imagine using new metric signs each time they needed replacement would result in the signs being inconsistent and confusing for drivers. When it comes to a project like this, I'd imagine that you need to do this all around the same time to avoid causing potentially problematic confusion for drivers.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442435]I don't have difficulty building / making / calculating stuff in imperial and I know plenty of other people that don't either? It's the same with anything, if you refuse to learn it then of course it will be hard.[/QUOTE]
So most of the world should learn imperial so that these sorts of conversion errors don't happen because that small minority prefers imperial is what you're saying?
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;46442333]and that it LITERALLY your only argument, which, as I noted, is making life a hell of a lot more difficult for people trying to build/make/calculate shit[/QUOTE]
How? All of science is done in metrics. Builders in the US use imperial measures. Builders elsewhere in the world use metric.
When they collab, they use metric. Thats how it works.
But fuck me right for wanting to use imperial measurements in my everyday life.
[QUOTE=Shogoll;46442488]You will, however, most certainly run into difficulty when building/making/calculating stuff together with 96% of the world's population, which the real problem.[/QUOTE]
Considering I can use both standards, not really.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442435]I don't have difficulty building / making / calculating stuff in imperial and I know plenty of other people that don't either? It's the same with anything, if you refuse to learn it then of course it will be hard.[/QUOTE]
Of course pretty much any engineer [I]can[/I] design and build things in the imperial system (provided they've learned the system), but it becomes a problem when these things need to be converted over to the metric system
Enter an American engineer. You want to design a component for a larger system. You work for an engineering/manufacturing firm that is based in America but has plants worldwide. You want to make your component in America, and send it off to Germany to be mated with the rest of the system.
Your American equipment is measured in imperial units, the German equipment is measured in metric units. You are either forced to design your part in fucked up imperial units that will convert nicely over to metric units when your part reaches the next process, or pay out the ass to import metric equipment and train your technicians how to use it.
This is [I]ACTUALLY [/I]a productivity issue that real engineers encounter
[QUOTE=SoaringScout;46442495]After reading the Repair and Replacement section of this: [url]http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/local_rural/training/fhwasa09025/#c10[/url] it seems to me that they aren't repaired on some sort of schedule, but rather whenever necessary. If that's the schedule by which they replace signs, I'd imagine using new metric signs each time they needed replacement would result in the signs being inconsistent and confusing for drivers. When it comes to a project like this, I'd imagine that you need to do this all around the same time to avoid causing potentially problematic confusion for drivers.[/QUOTE]
You would have both readings on there. Gradual roll out.
[QUOTE=Alice3173;46442505]So most of the world should learn imperial so that these sorts of conversion errors don't happen because that small minority prefers imperial is what you're saying?[/QUOTE]
The more you know the better. Shunning a system because you don't like it is ignorant.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;46442527]Of course pretty much any engineer [I]can[/I] design and build things in the imperial system (provided they've learned the system), but it becomes a problem when these things need to be converted over to the metric system
Enter an American engineer. You want to design a component for a larger system. You work for an engineering/manufacturing firm that is based in America but has plants worldwide. You want to make your component in America, and send it off to Germany to be mated with the rest of the system.
Your American equipment is measured in imperial units, the German equipment is measured in metric units. You are either forced to design your part in fucked up imperial units that will convert nicely over to metric units when your part reaches the next process, or pay out the ass to import metric equipment and train your technicians how to use it.
This is [I]ACTUALLY [/I]a productivity issue that real engineers encounter[/QUOTE]
Remember when I said metric has a place?
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442522]Considering I can use both standards, not really.[/QUOTE]
The effort to perform calculations and maintain unit coherency generates tangible economic losses at large scales - the world is not built on anecdotes, the time and effort losses add up to an enormous quantity.
Also people at Lockheed and NASA most certainly can also use both standards, at a level far more proficiently than you or I and it didn't stop them from blowing a 130 million spacecraft up
[editline]a[/editline]
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442570]Remember when I said metric has a place?[/QUOTE]
Imperial, however, most definitely does not.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442570]The more you know the better. Shunning a system because you don't like it is ignorant.[/QUOTE]
Shunning a system because it's retarded is a great idea, however.
Reminds me of this, I forgot where I got it from.
[quote]The Avoirdupois pound was originally just as scientific as the kilogram. A pint of water at 4c weighed a pound and this was the basis of all imperial measurements. Similarly platinum measures were cast to keep a perfect reference point.
However, the metric system won out over all and the kilogram is the only part of the metric system that is indefinable by other terms. A metre is the length of vacuum travelled in 1/299,792,458 of a second. A second is the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom, etc etc.
Only the kilogram exists, now, indefinable except being what it is.[/quote]
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442570]
Remember when I said metric has a place?[/QUOTE]
Except the problems I mentioned are a result of the imperial system being the standard in the US
If the US used the metric system as standard and all of our manufacturing/design tools were in metric, there would be no issues.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;46442578]Shunning a system because it's retarded is a great idea, however.[/QUOTE]
Not shunning a system because it's immensely expensive to shun it is a good reason for not doing it though.
Great Britain is 229,848 km^2 large. America is 9,857,306 km^2. It's really fucking huge compared to any country in Europe, which is why it lags so far behind in infrastructure compared to Europe. It's really fucking expensive in both time and money to switch over to a whole different measurement system. It could be done, but it's not as practical as we all assume it is and it would probably take decades for something that ultimately would result in minimal gain.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;46442625]Not shunning a system because it's immensely expensive to shun it is a good reason for not doing it though.
Great Britain is 229,848 km^2 large. America is 9,857,306 km^2. It's really fucking huge compared to any country in Europe, which is why it lags so far behind in infrastructure compared to Europe. It's really fucking expensive in both time and money to switch over to a whole different measurement system. It could be done, but it's not as practical as we all assume it is and it would probably take decades for something that ultimately would result in minimal gain.[/QUOTE]
I'm not arguing that the US should replace all its infrastructure right away, but (more of) an effort could at least be made to make sure that the next generation know imperial and metric equally well at least, and a gradual roll out with regards to infrastructure should be manageable.
[editline]9th November 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;46442595]Reminds me of this, I forgot where I got it from.[/QUOTE]
They're trying pretty hard to decouple it from its original definition (for example with the silicon atom approach), though.
[QUOTE=SoaringScout;46442495]After reading the Repair and Replacement section of this: [url]http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/local_rural/training/fhwasa09025/#c10[/url] it seems to me that they aren't repaired on some sort of schedule, but rather whenever necessary. If that's the schedule by which they replace signs, I'd imagine using new metric signs each time they needed replacement would result in the signs being inconsistent and confusing for drivers. When it comes to a project like this, I'd imagine that you need to do this all around the same time to avoid causing potentially problematic confusion for drivers.[/QUOTE]
did you actually read the article in the OP? Its literally about how they are dealing with this problem
using signs with both unit systems works fine as an interim until you can phase imperial units out as the older generation dies off. As it stands cars in the US have both sets already on the speedometer, so there shouldn't be any confusion issues.
I live on the Canadian border and drive over there occasionally, and I dont suddenly freak out when I see 100 KPH signs and start going 100 MPH
[editline]8th November 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;46442681]I'm not arguing that the US should replace all its infrastructure right away, but (more of) an effort could at least be made to make sure that the next generation know imperial and metric equally well at least, and a gradual roll out with regards to infrastructure should be manageable.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly
Im not saying it needs to be an instant process but we do need to start rolling it out, even if it takes a couple generations
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;46442681]I'm not arguing that the US should replace all its infrastructure right away, but (more of) an effort could at least be made to make sure that the next generation know imperial and metric equally well at least, and a gradual roll out with regards to infrastructure should be manageable.[/QUOTE]
Maybe it's different for other parts of America but I don't think I've met a person who doesn't understand metric. The've always been teaching it in schools. Hell, when I was a kid they drilled it into our heads saying "Yeah Imperial is really stupid, use this."
[QUOTE=Deng;46441251]Literally every other country in the world save for Burma and the USA converted. Why can't the USA?[/QUOTE]Manpower and Cost. There is a [I]huge[/I] hurdle to overcome, and we don't have the money or manpower to get there yet.
[QUOTE=Shogoll;46442577]The effort to perform calculations and maintain unit coherency generates tangible economic losses at large scales.[/QUOTE]
So do thousands of other factors.
[QUOTE=Shogoll;46442577]Also people at Lockheed and NASA most certainly can also use both standards, at a level far more proficiently than you or I and it didn't stop them from blowing a 130 million spacecraft up[/QUOTE]
Space flight is extremely dangerous under any circumstance. Changing the measurement system used isn't going to considerably reduce the risk of an accident happening and history has showed us this.
far more spacecraft have been lost to other sources than differences in the measuring system.
I don't know any American who actually works with units of measurement who doesn't know how to use the metric system. It is so simple to learn, and we all understand that it is superior in almost every way, especially in science.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;46442708]Maybe it's different for other parts of America but I don't think I've met a person who doesn't understand metric. The've always been teaching it in schools. Hell, when I was a kid they drilled it into our heads saying "Yeah Imperial is really stupid, use this."[/QUOTE]
But we still learn imperial first
And that's why we have people saying "Oh but I like imperial more and am used to it, so we should use that". Teaching metric as the primary method is the first step to phasing out the imperial system.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442737]So do thousands of other factors.
Space flight is extremely dangerous under any circumstance. Changing the measurement system used isn't going to considerably reduce the risk of an accident happening and history has showed us this.
far more spacecraft have been lost to other sources than differences in the measuring system.[/QUOTE]
"The imperial system is not the [I]primary[/I] reason for failed space missions. Let's keep it!"
But really, I might just be making zingers now, but do you actually understand how and why the metric system is simply easier and [I]better[/I]? Or are you actually saying that imperial and metric are two equally good systems of measurement?
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;46442737]So do thousands of other factors.
Space flight is extremely dangerous under any circumstance. Changing the measurement system used isn't going to considerably reduce the risk of an accident happening and history has showed us this.
far more spacecraft have been lost to other sources than differences in the measuring system.[/QUOTE]
I think he's referring to an incident where some space project got royally fucked because one team in America used Imperial and one team in Europe used Metric, and neither team with all their smarts had the sense to double check.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;46442681]I'm not arguing that the US should replace all its infrastructure right away, but (more of) an effort could at least be made to make sure that the next generation know imperial and metric equally well at least, and a gradual roll out with regards to infrastructure should be manageable.[/QUOTE]
We've done this already, but since measurements in civilian life are imperial, nobody really rememberes metric.
[QUOTE=Robber;46439864]We use metric for absolutely everything with one exception: Screen sizes are almost always in inches. I have no idea why. It applies to everything from phones to TVs. It's so weird.[/QUOTE]
Yeah same goes in Australia, guess it's an industry standard to still use inches, would be better than saying centimetres or millimetres
Inches is literally the only imperial unit still used, we made the switch around the same time as the Canadians
I actually have no real attachment to one arbitrary measurement system or another arbitrary measurement system. As long as I don't have to pay for it do whatever the fuck you want.
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