Russia accuses Ukraine of attempted Crimea 'incursions' - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Govna;50863401] This is nonsense. Having an open and supervised referendum is the United Nations' business to, you know, supervise-- not exclusively the United States'. The only sense for the one that was conducted as it was conducted comes down purely to the cynical reality of politics: it added false legitimacy to Russia's claims about how "the people want this". They could claim that the people wanted it, they could downplay the fact they didn't go to the United Nations with their referendum in the first place because "evil Western imperialists will never accept it", and they knew that apart from some diplomatic and economic protests there wouldn't be any serious military repercussions against them.[/QUOTE] The problem is, the US is one of the few nations with the veto power, and you must be delusional to think your country wouldn't have used it(not that the US cares that much about about the United Nations' resolutions anyway). It's not about people, it's about the interests of the leading global power, and acting this way doesn't make you evil, it's just how the politics work. [QUOTE=Govna;50863401] And this is just pointless. We care about the Crimea and the people of the Crimea because what goes on there and what happens to them affects us. Having a 21st century Slavic Mussolini equivalent invading sovereign nations and seizing their territory under the guise of invented legitimacy is something the entire [I]international community[/I] cares about-- never mind those of us just here in the West.[/QUOTE] Yeah, you totally care about them, in the same hypocritical way you care about all those starving people in Africa or those being killed in Syria(there are some genuinely good people everywhere though, so i won't go deep into this topic). I wasn't talking about YOU anyway, i meant the governments of both countries. And again, you must be delusional to the core if you think your government pushed all that shit against Russia just because they care about the population of Crimea so much. Again, I'm not trying to justify the way Putin acts, so don't call me out on this. Just trying to let you understand that everyone acts according to their interests, so stop pretending you're the good guys. There are no good guys in these games.

Russia invades Crimea illegally and then accuses Ukraine of wanting to take their land back. "WE STOLE THIS FAIR AND SQUARE"

Russia is not going to give Crimea up, and no one seems willing to take it from them. As long as that's the case, Crimea belongs to Russia

[QUOTE=Tob2010;50866424]Russia is not going to give Crimea up, and no one seems willing to take it from them. As long as that's the case, Crimea belongs to Russia[/QUOTE] Illegal ocupation and legal ownership are entirely different things.

[QUOTE=RB33;50861521]Ethnic minorities wanting to belong to another country or independence have rights.[/QUOTE] Yes. They have the right to move to that country.

[QUOTE=David29;50866524]Illegal ocupation and legal ownership are entirely different things.[/QUOTE] True. I'd argue however that there's not much difference if those who are meant to uphold the law don't.

[URL="https://lenta.ru/news/2016/08/11/mid_igra/"]https://lenta.ru/news/2016/08/11/mid_igra/[/URL] Oh shit, oh fuck Shit might go down real soon "Russian foreign ministry warned Kiev not to play with fire" and "Any damage to Russian side and/or death of it's military personnel will not go unpunished"

i'll just say that i'm glad we have people like conscript. if not for them it would get quite echo-y over here while a lot of you seem to argue based on a view of the world through a modern nation's eyes only, he has the merit to know about the history and the intricacies of the region and that makes him relevant more so than the angry people labeling him as commie or fascist. I don't get where this anger comes from, from what I see, conscript is only analysing what's happening and he does so with way more levelheadedness. He takes the big picture into account.

[QUOTE=Mechanical43;50866869]i'll just say that i'm glad we have people like conscript. if not for them it would get quite echo-y over here while a lot of you seem to argue based on a view of the world through a modern nation's eyes only, he has the merit to know about the history and the intricacies of the region and that makes him relevant more so than the angry people labeling him as commie or fascist. I don't get where this anger comes from, from what I see, conscript is only analysing what's happening and he does so with way more levelheadedness. He takes the big picture into account.[/QUOTE] The problem is in moral approach toward analysis of situation that requires you to shift your perspective from individual to a collective strategy of an entire government, which among of all things, is best reflected in history of nation said government rules over. Perhaps some people simply incapable of that. Cause if you'd look in a history of Russia/NATO then entire Ukranian deal is clear as day continuation of reaction to Alliance expansion toward Russia's borders. Also to those confused by my flagdog, it changes here in Crimea back and forth due to iPad catching on both Russian and Ukranian network operators

[QUOTE=karimatrix;50867272] Cause if you'd look in a history of Russia/NATO then entire Ukranian deal is clear as day continuation of reaction to Alliance expansion toward Russia's borders.[/QUOTE] Which would not happen even in the first place if Stalin had not been an conquering/ethnic clensing idiot. All of the expansion is because of fear for it to happen again. And taking crimea sure isn't helping against those fears, regardless of crimean people wanting to join or not.

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;50861432]navy ports To clarify Ukraine allowed Russia to harbor ships in Crimea, when the pro-EU revolution happened Russia feared losing their ability to use Crimea's ports since it's a big part of their influence over the Black Sea, hence they invaded to keep control of the ports.[/QUOTE] Bbbbut no, this was all done to get more land for Russia!!! Some posters here are so retarded about this issue this isnt funny anymore. [editline]12th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50865356]might be something to do with being exposed to this bullshit on a daily basis, watching on the news as russia invaded and annexed territory belonging to a neighbouring country.[/QUOTE] yeah, dont you just hate it when you turn on your tv and see how russi, yet again, annexed some more land, every single day. [editline]12th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=ripsipiirakk;50867664]Which would not happen even in the first place if Stalin had not been an conquering/ethnic clensing idiot. All of the expansion is because of fear for it to happen again. And taking crimea sure isn't helping against those fears, regardless of crimean people wanting to join or not.[/QUOTE] How come nobody feared Germany to start going batshit insane again, then?

[QUOTE=ripsipiirakk;50867664]Which would not happen even in the first place if Stalin had not been an conquering/ethnic clensing idiot. All of the expansion is because of fear for it to happen again. And taking crimea sure isn't helping against those fears, regardless of crimean people wanting to join or not.[/QUOTE] Russia has been expanding eons before Stalin's birth though. that's what i'm saying it's like people only think this world was created the way it is right now a hundred years ago.

[QUOTE=karimatrix;50867272]The problem is in moral approach toward analysis of situation that requires you to shift your perspective from individual to a collective strategy of an entire government, which among of all things, is best reflected in history of nation said government rules over. Perhaps some people simply incapable of that. Cause if you'd look in a history of Russia/NATO then entire Ukranian deal is clear as day continuation of reaction to Alliance expansion toward Russia's borders. Also to those confused by my flagdog, it changes here in Crimea back and forth due to iPad catching on both Russian and Ukranian network operators[/QUOTE] it's not so much an expansion towards russias borders as it is a steady decline of russias borders nations are slowly cleaved off one at a time and the russian state wastes far too much time and resources on trying to hold onto lands that are obviously of no benefit to russia or are full of people who are upset with how the central government handles matters. moscow never really tamed the regions or managed to find a way to make the whole federal system work imo things aren't going to be fixed until either russia has a system of government which works in all regions (and not just in moscow and a few other important places) or it ends up more religious and ethnic groups that quite frankly couldn't give a shit about the future of the russian state

Not only has it been building up, shootings has happened too!