[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;36088930]Whether Scotland gives more to the union than it gets from it depends on whether or not you are including oil. If you are, then it provided 9.4% of UK GDP, and only received 9.2% of public spending, however, it is likely that they will not get it all, and may only get a small amount. If you do not include oil then it puts in 8.3% of UK GDP, meaning it benefits out of the union.
Then there is the matter of the debt. If its share is worked out as a percentage of GDP, then they will take just under £85 billion, if as a percentage of the UK population, just under £86 billion. The gap is not large because it has 8.3% of GDP, and 8.3% of population.
Additionally there is currency. The scots could continue to use the pound; either with permission or without, however if without permission they would not be able to use the BoE as a lender of last resort. With permission they will have no say over interest rates, and it is likely that Scotland would have to agree to a stability and growth pact. This would force Scotland to continue with the austerity measures, for it is unlikely that George Osborne would maintain austerity measures to maintain the AAA rating, whilst allowing a free for all north of the border. Alternatively, Scotland could create its own currency, either pegged to the pound or not. If it wished to join the Euro, unless it was given special dispensation, it is likely that it would need its own currency prior to this.
Finally, on defence issues, there are several options. One is for Scotland to make its own military, however this would be expensive and also difficult. Another is to break off RAF and army regiments in Scotland. This would likely prove unpopular in London, and the rest of the UK, and I doubt that the government would allow this. The final option would be to share the armed forces, and maintain the army in its current form, with the Scottish paying their share. Nuclear weapons would also be an issue, with the UK's entire nuclear arsenal based in Clyde, Scotland. If Scotland became independent, it is almost certain the remainder of the UK would retain control of them. They could either reach an agreement to keep them in Scotland, or they would be moved to another part of the UK.
Sources:
[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2012/feb/28/can-scotland-be-independent-and-keep-sterling[/url]
[url]http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/[/url]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16477990[/url]
[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2012/mar/01/how-would-an-independent-scotland-defend-itself[/url][/QUOTE]
so from what you've said here and links provided, Scottish independence would be totally pointless other than a misplaced nationalism against the rest of the UK. Who says Scotland would get the oil if they broke away anyway, its likely that Wales and England would claim it.
[QUOTE=Vasili;36090707]so from what you've said here and links provided, Scottish independence would be totally pointless other than a misplaced nationalism against the rest of the UK. Who says Scotland would get the oil if they broke away anyway, its likely that Wales and England would claim it.[/QUOTE]
um, it would be in Scottish waters.
and why would wales lay any claim to it? There's only hundreds of miles of England between it and the oil
I sincerely doubt Wales and England (who would still be a union) would allow Scotland to claim all the oil.
Scotland would probably not survive if they went independent, they'll end up bankrupt and debt ridden most likely, and we're unlike to accept them back if that happened.
[QUOTE=Vasili;36090707]so from what you've said here and links provided, Scottish independence would be totally pointless other than a misplaced nationalism against the rest of the UK. Who says Scotland would get the oil if they broke away anyway, its likely that Wales and England would claim it.[/QUOTE]
I personally believe they won't get it all, and are unlikely to get much, however I included it to balance the argument with the snp belief. It seems a lot of the yes campaign is based on the idea that they could cherry pick the bits they wanted.
National independence is a nice thought and I support that but if it would make Scotland economically unstable it is probably not a very good idea.
[QUOTE=Vasili;36091000]I sincerely doubt Wales and England (who would still be a union) would allow Scotland to claim all the oil.[/QUOTE]
There wouldn't really be much they could do about it. The vast majority of North Sea oil and gas reserves are in, what would be, Scottish waters. In the event of independence, Scotland would geographically and legally be entitled to the oil. Regardless of any claim England makes to it, it wouldn't be in their waters, and therefore wouldn't belong to them. They could couldn't just say, "Oh here, look, we know this is yours, but we're so used to having it, we're just going to hang onto it". The only reason the rest of the UK benefits from the money made from North Sea oil is because Scotland is part of the UK
Everyone is so quick to criticize the referendum, but surely the people in parliament know what they're doing. They wouldn't be so keen on it if it would only sink the country.
I, as a Scot, give not a single shit about whatever "pride" is to be had by fucking up our countries economy based on a short term and mostly ill-founded belief that Scotland could last by itself.
[QUOTE=Scot;36091513]Everyone is so quick to criticize the referendum, but surely the people in parliament know what they're doing. They wouldn't be so keen on it if it would only sink the country.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, just wait until everybody sees how many wind farms the SNP will make!
[QUOTE=mac338;36085883]That would make the Union Jack weird.
[editline]25th May 2012[/editline]
[IMG]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/01/13/article-0-0F71B62B00000578-770_634x316.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
It already is weird since whoever made it was autistic and decided not to make the Irish Cross symmetrical on all sides.
[QUOTE=Scot;36091513]Everyone is so quick to criticize the referendum, but surely the people in parliament know what they're doing. They wouldn't be so keen on it if it would only sink the country.[/QUOTE]
These are the same people who advocated the construction of that monstrosity that sits in the middle of Edinburgh. Curiously enough, the horrible building is even uglier on the inside, especially when parliament is in session.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36091972]It already is weird since whoever made it was autistic and decided not to make the Irish Cross symmetrical on all sides.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/United_Kingdom_Flag_Specifications.svg/500px-United_Kingdom_Flag_Specifications.svg.png[/img]
It's technically symmetrical.
[QUOTE=Scot;36091513]Everyone is so quick to criticize the referendum, but surely the people in parliament know what they're doing. They wouldn't be so keen on it if it would only sink the country.[/QUOTE]
You'd be surprised what blind nationalism does to a country *cough WWI cough Iraq cough*
scotland would suck without the union, i don't feel like scotland is as self-sufficient as england
[QUOTE=Coffee;36092069][img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/United_Kingdom_Flag_Specifications.svg/500px-United_Kingdom_Flag_Specifications.svg.png[/img]
It's technically symmetrical.[/QUOTE]
You can't draw more lines to justify it because on the real flag, no such lines exist. Mirror symmetry means the image would appear the same if it was reflected in a mirror. The Union Jack would not be the same.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36092658]You can't draw more lines to justify it because on the real flag, no such lines exist. Mirror symmetry means the image would appear the same if it was reflected in a mirror. The Union Jack would not be the same.[/QUOTE]
Why should it be symmetrical? It looks fine how it is and it's not like they are just randomly placed, the pattern is pretty easy to see.
[QUOTE=Bad)-(and;36091434]There wouldn't really be much they could do about it. The vast majority of North Sea oil and gas reserves are in, what would be, Scottish waters. In the event of independence, Scotland would geographically and legally be entitled to the oil. Regardless of any claim England makes to it, it wouldn't be in their waters, and therefore wouldn't belong to them. They could couldn't just say, "Oh here, look, we know this is yours, but we're so used to having it, we're just going to hang onto it". The only reason the rest of the UK benefits from the money made from North Sea oil is because Scotland is part of the UK[/QUOTE]
you underestimate the history of the British and their regards to other peoples resources.
[QUOTE=squids_eye;36092792]Why should it be symmetrical? It looks fine how it is and it's not like they are just randomly placed, the pattern is pretty easy to see.[/QUOTE]
Because the Irish cross is actually a cross and not skew-symmetric?
[QUOTE=Bad)-(and;36091434]There wouldn't really be much they could do about it. The vast majority of North Sea oil and gas reserves are in, what would be, Scottish waters. In the event of independence, Scotland would geographically and legally be entitled to the oil. Regardless of any claim England makes to it, it wouldn't be in their waters, and therefore wouldn't belong to them. They could couldn't just say, "Oh here, look, we know this is yours, but we're so used to having it, we're just going to hang onto it". The only reason the rest of the UK benefits from the money made from North Sea oil is because Scotland is part of the UK[/QUOTE]
Scotland cannot just declare independence. It has to have a deal with Westminster to allow it to create its own constitution. In this deal there will be various other things covered such as how much debt Scotland will take, and, relevant to this, how the oil will be divided. So yes, the remainder of the UK can claim the right to some of the oil.
[QUOTE=David29;36086126]It doesn't quite work like that - they shouldn't be able to come and go as they please.[/QUOTE]
then next time they apply for membership say, "no"
If a country becomes independent, it has to re-apply to the EU. (See Kosovo)
EU rules now state that those who join must adopt the Euro. (See Croatia)
If Scotland becomes Independent it:
a) It must re-apply to the EU
b) If it decides to do so, it must adopt the Euro
c) If it wants to keep the pound it must remain outside the EU (and have its monetary policy decided by the Bank of England).
Scottish Independence is messy and this is just one issue the Scots will have to think about.
[QUOTE=gnisasas;36088382]Dragon in your flag, or vowels in your flag name, you choose[/QUOTE]
Fck vwls, wh nds vwls?
as an American, I have no idea what is going on here
[QUOTE=The Baconator;36096668]as an American, I have no idea what is going on here[/QUOTE]
Scottish Nationalists want to leave the United Kingdom and become a fully independent country.
At the moment they have limited self-autonomous powers (devolution).
There is a referendum scheduled for 2014 where the Scottish people will decide whether to leave or not.
[QUOTE=Mythman;36096568]If a country becomes independent, it has to re-apply to the EU. (See Kosovo)
EU rules now state that those who join must adopt the Euro. (See Croatia)
If Scotland becomes Independent it:
a) It must re-apply to the EU
b) If it decides to do so, it must adopt the Euro
c) If it wants to keep the pound it must remain outside the EU (and have its monetary policy decided by the Bank of England).
Scottish Independence is messy and this is just one issue the Scots will have to think about.[/QUOTE]
EU sucks anyway.
[QUOTE=Kingy_ME;36096575]Fck vwls, wh nds vwls?[/QUOTE]
Th Nn Flg (r jck t s)
[sp] The Union Flag (or Jack at sea) [/sp]
[QUOTE=Hellsten;36096729]EU sucks anyway.[/QUOTE]
The amount of red-tape is certainly sucks.
The free-trade agreements, the fact EU countries cannot impose tariffs on your goods and standardised legislation? Not so much.
Just let them have their own Eurovision entry and the whole thing will blow over.
[QUOTE=Scot;36091513]Everyone is so quick to criticize the referendum, but surely the people in parliament know what they're doing.[/QUOTE]
just because they're in the parliament doesn't somehow automatically grant them the ability to instantly know what's the best thing to do
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