[QUOTE=avincent;41933456]Only a matter of time :dance:
[IMG]http://www.maxfarquar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/sharia-law-in-the-UK.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Jewish people have been practicing their version of sharia law in the UK and the USA respectively for centuries.
I don't see the fanfare about that.
But it probably stems from your lack of understanding what it all actually means. You just see a sharia law as a tabloid buzzword for a modern day yellow peril.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;41933414]And. Here. We. Go!
Once again you are putting words into my mouth. Have you ever actually debated properly before or not?
I have never claimed that is what you think it is, I have never claimed that is what I think it is. I have claimed that it might save some lives. That's all. And leaving it in place while you look for the reasons why they shoot up a school would be fine, but it may just direct shooters to other schools instead, or just not do anything (as I said in the beginning, the teachers need the resolve to end another human being, they have to shoot first or they die anyway, so you better hope the teachers get the drop on the shooter).[/QUOTE]
Fair enough.
The way I see it, with this in place we can at least have some sort of measure to possibly lower the death count when tragedies like these happen. Whether it is effective or not remains to be seen, but in my mind I think this has the potential to be a good thing while we figure out the best course of action for the American people.
i think shooters should check out nursing homes
hot tip for any on fp~
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41933563]i think shooters should check out nursing homes
hot tip for any on fp~[/QUOTE]
What exactly does that have to do with anything?
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41932917]On the same day of Sandy Hook, there was a huge attack on a school in China.
twenty two children were injured, none died.
The guy could only get hold of a knife.[/QUOTE]
Yeah better ban all guns.
And the day that happens, [url=http://www.odmp.org/]ODMP[/url] is gonna have a lot of updating to do.
[QUOTE=Lethaxx;41933382]You know there is a problem when you need to arm your school teachers.[/QUOTE]
You know there is a problem when solutions start being put in place.
Can't wait to explain to my [url=http://foro.eliteculturismo.com/attachments/culturismo/11993d1335488597-ayuda-volumen-o-definir-hahahaha.jpg]sons[/url] principal that we accidentially lost his security card, which was why he was caught trying to use a tree to get over the electrified perimeter playground fence, past the cameras and through the broken bars in a window as to not miss class and risk expulsion and prosecution for child neglect.
What a fucking regressive, half-baked piece of shit idea.
[QUOTE=avincent;41933337]"It won't stop a whole lot so why bother trying!" This seems to be the attitude of the average European. Which is probably why the UK is being dominated by Sharia Law hahahaha[/QUOTE]
good god do the international opinion of your country a favour and [B]stop posting[/B]
[editline]23rd August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=avincent;41933456]Only a matter of time :dance:
[IMG]http://www.maxfarquar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/sharia-law-in-the-UK.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
oh my fucking god he even uses the daily mail as an example of the UK
[QUOTE=snapshot32;41932571]This is really no different than having a police officer or security guard on campus. The amount of training they had to undergo in order to carry in the first place would put them in the same position experience-wise as a deputy in some towns or your average security guard.
To argue that allowing a trained individual to carry around a tool they were trained with would be equivalent to claiming alot of police officers and security guards are unqualified to do the exact same thing.[/QUOTE]
No, no, no. A security guard's job description is to secure. A teacher's job description is to teach. I find it totally fucking unacceptable that a teacher would be (in some cases) expected to be firearms trained and carry a firearm for the rationale that a crazed lunatic with a gun might try and kill them and their charges.
Are you living in a warzone? Is everyone expected to carry a weapon just in case someone gets shot? How scared are you of the people around you?
I would have been uncomfortable with an unarmed police officer wondering around my school back when I was there, let alone armed teachers. But I never lived in fear of being shot. Like I said back in another thread a few months ago, when you're having to arm teachers in a school you need to take a step back and realize somewhere along the line something has gone terribly terribly wrong.
[QUOTE=Matriax;41933808]No, no, no. A security guard's job description is to secure. A teacher's job description is to teach. I find it totally fucking unacceptable that a teacher would be (in some cases) expected to be firearms trained and carry a firearm for the rationale that a crazed lunatic with a gun might try and kill them and their charges.
Are you living in a warzone? Is everyone expected to carry a weapon just in case someone gets shot? How scared are you of the people around you?
I would have been uncomfortable with an unarmed police officer wondering around my school back when I was there, let alone armed teachers. But I never lived in fear of being shot. Like I said back in another thread a few months ago, when you're having to arm teachers in a school you need to take a step back and realize somewhere along the line something has gone terribly terribly wrong.[/QUOTE]
I think you've missed something here. Teachers aren't expected or required to do this, it's simply an option on the table for teachers who want to feel more secure at school.
It has absolutely nothing to do with living in fear of anything, just an optional bit of preparation someone can take for a very extreme circumstance.
[QUOTE=daschnek;41933927]It has absolutely nothing to do with living in fear of anything[/QUOTE]
I think it does tbh
[QUOTE=Kommodore;41933663]What a fucking regressive, half-baked piece of shit idea.[/QUOTE]
Yeah why doesn't Obama just press the [I]"Fix Mental Healthcare"[/I] button on his desk already? Maybe he just can't find it. Should be between [I]"Fix The Economy" [/I]and [I]"Remove National Debt" [/I]buttons.
[editline]22nd August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Matriax;41933808]No, no, no. A security guard's job description is to secure. A teacher's job description is to teach. I find it totally fucking unacceptable that a teacher would be (in some cases) expected to be firearms trained and carry a firearm for the rationale that a crazed lunatic with a gun might try and kill them and their charges.[/QUOTE]
I don't see how this is any worse than schools having security guards or a campus with security police? If a couple teacher can keep the school more secure just by being there, then they don't even need to hire or rent security.
[QUOTE=daschnek;41933927]It has absolutely nothing to do with living in fear of anything, just an optional bit of preparation someone can take for a very extreme circumstance.[/QUOTE]
It's a measure put in place in reaction to school shootings happening a lot recently. It totally has everything to do with the fear of something.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41933934]I think it does tbh[/QUOTE]
It's wonderful that you think that, but it's not realistic. We didn't all shit ourselves or practice hiding under the desks every day after Newtown.
But the fact that we don't want to ignore the rare chance of a school shooting doesn't mean we live in fear. It just means that we think and prepare and respond to our environment.
[QUOTE=daschnek;41933927]I think you've missed something here. Teachers aren't expected or required to do this, it's simply an option on the table for teachers who want to feel more secure at school.
It has absolutely nothing to do with living in fear of anything, just an optional bit of preparation someone can take for a very extreme circumstance.[/QUOTE]
The fact that this has to be considered as an option should be sending massive alarm bells through your head. Know who else thinks weapons training makes them feel more secure? The Armed Forces, and the Armed Police. Now we can add the teaching profession to the list. Hurray!
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;41933937]Yeah why doesn't Obama just press the [I]"Fix Mental Healthcare"[/I] button on his desk already? Maybe he just can't find it. Should be between [I]"Fix The Economy" [/I]and [I]"Remove National Debt" [/I]buttons.
[editline]22nd August 2013[/editline]
I don't see how this is any worse than schools having security guards or a campus with security police? If a couple teacher can keep the school more secure just by being there, then they don't even need to hire or rent security.[/QUOTE]
Might be next to the [I]"Stop Flogging Guns to Fucking Anyone"[/I] button, I've not seen his desk.
What schools have their own security guards, what universities have police? None in the UK. There's the blokes who go round 1st year accommodation and tell you to keep the noise down and bouncers at night clubs, but otherwise there's eff all.
[QUOTE=Matriax;41934061]The fact that this has to be considered as an option should be sending massive alarm bells through your head. Know who else thinks weapons training makes them feel more secure? The Armed Forces, and the Armed Police. Now we can add the teaching profession to the list. Hurray!
[/QUOTE]
But, what don't you get about it being optional? It's not for the entire teaching profession, it's for the few teachers, apparently only at this one school, who really [B]want[/B] to do it. It's not adding some new paradigm about "protecting" students to the art of teaching, it's simply some teachers/school administrators who want to carry, and are willing to do the training and know the risks/responsibilities.
If people want to train and concealed carry on a campus for their protection, why make a big fuss about it? What harm is it doing to anyone?
Also, it's called [B]concealed[/B] carry for a reason, you're not supposed to be able to tell who is carrying, it's not like teachers will be able to wave it around on campus or act like super-ultra-macho-badass crossing guards armed to the teeth. They only want to exercise their right to bear arms in a responsible way.
[QUOTE=daschnek;41934132]But, what don't you get about it being optional? It's not for the entire teaching profession, it's for the few teachers, apparently only at this one school, who really [B]want[/B] to do it. It's not adding some new paradigm about "protecting" students to the art of teaching, it's simply some teachers/school administrators who want to carry, and are willing to do the training and know the risks/responsibilities.
If people want to train and concealed carry on a campus for their protection, why make a big fuss about it? What harm is it doing to anyone?
Also, it's called [B]concealed[/B] carry for a reason, you're not supposed to be able to tell who is carrying, it's not like teachers will be able to wave it around on campus or act like super-ultra-macho-badass crossing guards armed to the teeth. They only want to exercise their right to bear arms in a responsible way.[/QUOTE]
I think you're missing his point. The media and aspects of our culture have instilled this sense of fear to begin with. The fact that a school is acting on it to such a degree is indicative of a problem.
It's not that the school is wrong to do it, it's that they even feel the need to. The chances of a shooting happening there are next to none, but there's enough fear out there that they're taking this (relatively) drastic course of action.
[QUOTE=daschnek;41934132]But, what don't you get about it being optional? It's not for the entire teaching profession, it's for the few teachers, apparently only at this one school, who really [B]want[/B] to do it. It's not adding some new paradigm about "protecting" students to the art of teaching, it's simply some teachers/school administrators who want to carry, and are willing to do the training and know the risks/responsibilities.
If people want to train and concealed carry on a campus for their protection, why make a big fuss about it? What harm is it doing to anyone?
Also, it's called [B]concealed[/B] carry for a reason, you're not supposed to be able to tell who is carrying, it's not like teachers will be able to wave it around on campus or act like super-ultra-macho-badass crossing guards armed to the teeth. They only want to exercise their right to bear arms in a responsible way.[/QUOTE]
See where it says option in my post? I know it's optional.
My point is that it's distressing that anyone could feel the need to do this, evidently some people do. If you were living in Syria I'd understand, but the US?
[QUOTE=Matriax;41934211]
My point is that it's distressing that anyone could feel the need to do this, evidently some people do. If you were living in Syria I'd understand, but the US?[/QUOTE]
I could be wrong on this, but I've noticed the United States has gotten VERY reactionary over the past few decades, to the point of a pretty ridiculous paranoia in a lot of different areas. It's depressing, really. I'm generalizing, but everyone is so goddamn afraid of everything that they go completely off the rails trying to prevent anything bad from ever happening ever. 'Stranger Danger' is a good example of this, but so is what's happening at this school.
What happens when a teacher goes postal with his concealed carry guns? Better equip little johnny with a shotgun.
What happens when a teacher who has only done basic training and never really 'used' a firearm during a high stress situation shoots little johnny in the kneecap by mistake?
What happens when little johnny makes a 9mm semi automatic pistol out of his pop-tart and the teacher fills him full of lead?
What happens when some kid knocks a teacher on the head and can get a pistol instantly?
What happens when those extra pistols are left at their homes (that's just another batch of pistols that can get stolen and distributed on the black market again)?
What happens when some kids get in a knife fight and the 'expert marksman' determines they are of such danger he can start shooting them?
What happens when the kids start taking hostages because they know the teacher (who has no body armor) has a pistol?
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;41934246]I could be wrong on this, but I've noticed the United States has gotten VERY reactionary over the past few decades, to the point of a pretty ridiculous paranoia in a lot of different areas. It's depressing, really. I'm generalizing, but everyone is so goddamn afraid of everything that they go completely off the rails trying to prevent anything bad from ever happening ever. 'Stranger Danger' is a good example of this, but so is what's happening at this school.[/QUOTE]
I don't live there, I don't know. But it does seem like this from my point of view.
Then again we give lollipop ladies grenade launchers so who are we to argue?
Joke!
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;41934205]I think you're missing his point. The media and aspects of our culture have instilled this sense of fear to begin with. The fact that a school is acting on it to such a degree is indicative of a problem.
It's not that the school is wrong to do it, it's that they even feel the need to. The chances of a shooting happening there are next to none, but there's enough fear out there that they're taking this (relatively) drastic course of action.[/QUOTE]
I understood that he was talking about fear, but the reality is that it has nothing to do with fear. Students, teachers, staff, except the ones in Connecticut perhaps, never had any fears after Newtown.
For a lot of southerners, using guns is something they've been doing all their lives, and the idea of having armed guards on campus probably didn't require much debate on the part of the school staff. Fear didn't do it, it was just a conditioned response.
If I had a kid who went to school in Arkansas I'd be more worried about the teachers allowed to carry guns than the infinitesimally small chance that a shooter might strike his or her school. Even trained there are so many things that can go wrong just having a gun around the school. It's nice that Arkansas is actually training them unlike other states or counties which are just telling their employees to come on in with whatever concealed weapon they want but I feel like a resource officer system would work better, though I'm sure it's more expensive.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;41930550]Holy shatmackerel, that's a long time[/QUOTE]
It's a little over 6.5 8 hour work days, according to WolframAlpha.
Teachers have jobs that get progressively shittier every single year as Republican state legislatures chip away at school funding, try to bust the teachers unions, and try to push students into privatized charter schools. I can't think of anyone whose job puts them under more stress from office politics and threatened job/benefit loss than teachers, and therefore I can't think of any reason we should let them have guns anywhere near the workplace.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;41934250]What happens when a teacher goes postal with his concealed carry guns? Better equip little johnny with a shotgun.
What happens when a teacher who has only done basic training and never really 'used' a firearm during a high stress situation shoots little johnny in the kneecap by mistake?
What happens when little johnny makes a 9mm semi automatic pistol out of his pop-tart and the teacher fills him full of lead?
What happens when some kid knocks a teacher on the head and can get a pistol instantly?
What happens when those extra pistols are left at their homes (that's just another batch of pistols that can get stolen and distributed on the black market again)?
What happens when some kids get in a knife fight and the 'expert marksman' determines they are of such danger he can start shooting them?
What happens when the kids start taking hostages because they know the teacher (who has no body armor) has a pistol?[/QUOTE]
What happens when you get a logical argument that isn't a series of strawmans?
[editline]22nd August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41934391]If I had a kid who went to school in Arkansas I'd be more worried about the teachers allowed to carry guns than the infinitesimally small chance that a shooter might strike his or her school. Even trained there are so many things that can go wrong just having a gun around the school. It's nice that Arkansas is actually training them unlike other states or counties which are just telling their employees to come on in with whatever concealed weapon they want but I feel like a resource officer system would work better, though I'm sure it's more expensive.[/QUOTE]
IIRC, they're training them to the degree of an armed security guard, not just a basic CCW course. This seems like it's mostly designed to essentially give the school 20 armed security guards without having to hire 20 more staff.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;41934509]
IIRC, they're training them to the degree of an armed security guard, not just a basic CCW course. This seems like it's mostly designed to essentially give the school 20 armed security guards without having to hire 20 more staff.[/QUOTE]
Yeah the article says they are trained at a private facility. I guess it would depend on that facilities quality. I still feel like resource officers would be preferable but if you are going to arm teachers it seems like Arkasnas is atleast going through with it the right way.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41934800]Yeah the article says they are trained at a private facility. I guess it would depend on that facilities quality. I still feel like resource officers would be preferable but if you are going to arm teachers it seems like Arkasnas is atleast going through with it the right way.[/QUOTE]
An army of resource officers probably would be preferable, just not economically viable.
[QUOTE=Matriax;41934061]What schools have their own security guards, what universities have police? None in the UK. There's the blokes who go round 1st year accommodation and tell you to keep the noise down and bouncers at night clubs, but otherwise there's eff all.[/QUOTE]
Mostly city schools, especially inner-city schools, have security guards. Guards at inner-city schools are often the kind you'd expect at a bank, being trained, armed, full time guards. This is mostly maintained in cities (especially inner-city) due to the heightened risk of violence.
Campus Police may be a bad example, since they're more akin to a town's local police than they are to security guards, so I'll leave this one out. It's my understanding that UK doesn't use Campus Police, instead their universities just 'borrow' from the nearest PD.
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