• Virginia teen fatally shot by homeowner
    122 replies, posted
I think the right thing to do would've been to use mace as opposed to just shooting the kid.
I'm glad that I live in Australia, where the likelihood of me being shot is quite low
[QUOTE=WhatAmI;39979507]I'm glad that I live in Australia, where the likelihood of me being shot is quite low[/QUOTE] I'm glad I live in the UK, where I've got a better chance of getting stabbed instead of shot.
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;39979397]He told the kid to stop, but the kid did not. I don't know about you, but if I fire a warning shot and tell someone to stop, and they don't, then I'm not going to gamble with my family's life. I probably would have done the same as the homeowner. It's dark in the house, the guy you just fired a warning shot at is still coming toward you, and you don't know his intent. That is not a gamble I'm going to make. Regardless of the decisions that were made or could have been made, and regardless of which side you are on, this fact remains: the family is going to have to bury their child, and the home owner is going to have to live with the fact that he shot a kid. In my mind, that's all there is to it, and what's done is done.[/QUOTE] There probably would be a small risk in hesitating yes, but it would have saved the kid's life I also find it hard to believe the kid would have been charging towards him or anything, what immediate threat did he pose?
[QUOTE=James*;39979622]There probably would be a small risk in hesitating yes, but it would have saved the kid's life I also find it hard to believe the kid would have been charging towards him or anything, what immediate threat did he pose?[/QUOTE] Well the kid thought it was his own house, from his point of view there was an armed intruder in his house.
[QUOTE=James*;39979335]But it wasn't. He could have found out it was a drunk kid but chose to shoot first[/QUOTE] Hindsight is always 20/20.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;39979784]Hindsight is always 20/20.[/QUOTE] So you are acknowledging he fucked up?
He also probably could've just called the police. Would've avoided the death of a minor and the guilt that surrounds it.
[QUOTE=16bit;39975876]Although I do feel bad for the kid, he BROKE the back window to get in.[/QUOTE] And he DID get more than enough of a punishment for doing that. Struck down dead with a shotgun! [editline]20th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=16bit;39975957]"Doing no harm" Which is why the burglar alarm was sounding off from a broken window?[/QUOTE] But he or they had no harmful intent. They did no harm. They were harmed if any.
[QUOTE=Winters;39979955]He also probably could've just called the police. Would've avoided the death of a minor and the guilt that surrounds it.[/QUOTE] Response time for police in the US is something like 15 minutes on a good day... The intruder, if he had malicious intent, could have carried it all out and drove off. Don't forget the report states the homeowner fired a warning shot.
This sounds like a tragic misunderstanding. The kid probably thought he is in his own house and tried to drunkenly stop what he assumed was an armed intruder. Although I don't agree with being able to kill unarmed intruders, I don't think the home owner did anything wrong.
[QUOTE=James*;39979924]So you are acknowledging he fucked up?[/QUOTE] Was it a mistake? Absolutely. Is it reasonable to expect an average human to figure that out when under pressure and scared at 2 am? Absolutely not. [editline]20th March 2013[/editline] It's easy for us to sit here and say "He should have done this," "He should have done that," "I wouldn't have done the same thing," when that's not quite how it works when you're under pressure and you have no way of knowing all the facts.
[QUOTE=Tucan Sam;39979995]Response time for police in the US is something like 15 minutes on a good day... The intruder, if he had malicious intent, could have carried it all out and drove off. Don't forget the report states the homeowner fired a warning shot.[/QUOTE] I haven't forgotten that, I think in no way justifies the shooting and killing of a teenage boy.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39978182]I don't think the homeowner handled this wrong, but the situation would never have escalated, had the gun not been involved. This is a single case, but even when used right, guns can be the wrong answer.[/QUOTE] Now, I don't like when people quote themselves to get some answers on the ratings, but can the people rating this disagree seriously say that the gun was the right answer in this situation? Or that it wouldn't have turned out differently had the homeowner not owned a gun as well?
the amount of stupidity in this thread holy shit "just shoot him in the leg" "just subdue him" "just knock him out" yeah ok thanks for the a+ tactical advice youve clearly been in many heat of the moment situations and know that everyone is capable of keeping a cool logical head when their life is potentially in danger and time is not on their side [editline]20th March 2013[/editline] "im a sheltered suburban teenager but ive watched a lot of movies and play a lot of call of duty i can handle myself why cant this guy???????????"
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;39980219]Now, I don't like when people quote themselves to get some answers on the ratings, but can the people rating this disagree seriously say that the gun was the right answer in this situation? Or that it wouldn't have turned out differently had the homeowner not owned a gun as well?[/QUOTE] It could have escalated just as easily with say... a bat, knife, sword, etc etc. Besides a good amount of people in Virginia, at least in the tidewater area, carry some form of knife in their pockets. (no not the Swiss Army kind either)
[QUOTE=Valdor;39975953]Gun owner does everything right, you still think he's in the wrong. Why even bother if you're just going to be against them no matter what?[/QUOTE] I think an argument could be made that lethal force should not be permitted against an unarmed assailant
[QUOTE=Itachi_Crow;39980299]the amount of stupidity in this thread holy shit "just shoot him in the leg" "just subdue him" "just knock him out" yeah ok thanks for the a+ tactical advice youve clearly been in many heat of the moment situations and know that everyone is capable of keeping a cool logical head when their life is potentially in danger and time is not on their side [editline]20th March 2013[/editline] "im a sheltered suburban teenager but ive watched a lot of movies and play a lot of call of duty i can handle myself why cant this guy???????????"[/QUOTE] heat of the moment situation when a drunken teenager accidentally tumbles into your home, ok might be scary there for a second, but I wouldn't be surprised if the home owner just used his right to kill in defense because he was within his legal boundaries to do so, because he could. Or he have had incidents like this before and is not taking chances anymore because some reason, who knows? Probably depends a lot on the home owner what they would do with intruders, too, right?
[QUOTE=Tucan Sam;39980327]It could have escalated just as easily with say... a bat, knife, sword, etc etc. Besides a good amount of people in Virginia, at least in the tidewater area, carry some form of knife in their pockets. (no not the Swiss Army kind either)[/QUOTE] Not many people carry a sword, and bats and knives are not really as good for killing as guns. I don't know whether the teen reacted violently to the warning shot or not, so I won't judge the gun guy at all - but if he had a bat or a knife, he would probably be more reluctant to attack the person, and the situation might have been resolved differently.
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;39980449] might be scary there for a second, but I wouldn't be surprised if the home owner just used his right to kill in defense because he was within his legal boundaries to do so, because he could. Or he have had incidents like this before and is not taking chances anymore because some reason, who knows? Probably depends a lot on the home owner what they would do with intruders, too, right?[/QUOTE] Yep, I'm sure this guy was gleefully stroking his murder boner when he came downstairs, wholly excited at the opportunity to shoot a drunk teenager to death
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39980396]I think an argument could be made that lethal force should not be permitted against an unarmed assailant[/QUOTE] ok then mister, how would one prove that an assailant is unarmed when it is dark, he is not responding to verbal questions or warning shots, and you have exactly 5 seconds to make a choice or else this assailant will be right in your face... possibly stabbing you, taking your gun, then tying you up and raping your wife in front of you, slitting her throat and then yours, and finally kidnapping your daughter all because you didn't pull the trigger.
i actually remember this kid, when i went to briarwoods high school in LC at a football game, we'd always whoop park view's (his school) ass every time, he was on the other side of the stadium with his clique of friends.. wtf why do i remember this now...i didn't know who he was until i googled him and recognized his face.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39980396]I think an argument could be made that lethal force should not be permitted against an unarmed assailant[/QUOTE] Especially in the dark, it's not that simple to check if an assailant is armed or not. Plus, this being a panic situation makes it even more difficult. [editline]20th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=WhatAmI;39979507]I'm glad that I live in Australia, where the likelihood of me being shot is quite low[/QUOTE] Yeah, living in the US, I really have to keep on my toes. I do my best to stay out of the way of the random crossfire, but I'll usually take at least one bullet to a limb on a good day. Hell, it's only noon today and I've already lost my left eye.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller] Yeah, living in the US, I really have to keep on my toes. I do my best to stay out of the way of the random crossfire, but I'll usually take at least one bullet to a limb on a good day. Hell, it's only noon today and I've already lost my left eye.[/QUOTE] Sounds like a good day to me. I'm at school now and I just heard the left wing got blown out by artillery fire.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;39980096]Was it a mistake? Absolutely. Is it reasonable to expect an average human to figure that out when under pressure and scared at 2 am? Absolutely not. [editline]20th March 2013[/editline] It's easy for us to sit here and say "He should have done this," "He should have done that," "I wouldn't have done the same thing," when that's not quite how it works when you're under pressure and you have no way of knowing all the facts.[/QUOTE] Then maybe everyone shouldn't be armed to the teeth if they are likely to act in a volatile manner I can safely say I wouldn't do the same in a similar situation because not being armed I wouldn't have the potential to make a mistake costing someone's life [editline]20th March 2013[/editline] It's all well and good saying he made a mistake, but it ended with someone dying so maybe there should be consequences
[QUOTE=James*;39982194]Then maybe everyone shouldn't be armed to the teeth if they are likely to act in a volatile manner I can safely say I wouldn't do the same in a similar situation because not being armed I wouldn't have the potential to make a mistake costing someone's life [editline]20th March 2013[/editline] It's all well and good saying he made a mistake, but it ended with someone dying so maybe there should be consequences[/QUOTE] How is basic self defense considered acting in a volatile manner?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39980396]I think an argument could be made that lethal force should not be permitted against an unarmed assailant[/QUOTE] I have to disagree, I don't think it's possible to make one statement that applies to every conceivable situation like that. For example, a large male assailant(6'5" 300lbs) is against a 5' 100lb woman, but SHE is the one who has to play fair and not use lethal force to defend herself just because he has no weapon? That makes no sense. In this case, someone broke into the man's home, it was in the early morning hours, and the intruder was intoxicated. Considering the situation the homeowner was facing, it's ridiculous to expect the homeowner to be the one looking out for the interests of the intruder.
You know what I just don't even know anymore.
I just checked this article and I can drive to where this happened in 15 minutes.
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