Hackers successfully manage to remotely kill a Jeep Cherokee a Wired author was testing for them - Polidicks

[QUOTE=plunger435;48262852]During some heavy snow I imagine it'd be pretty handy to be able to start your car and turn on the heat before you actually head out. Same would go for cooling it down during the summer.[/QUOTE] Isn't it actually illegal to keep your car running during winter to heat it up? I remember that from somewhere.

[QUOTE=cartman300;48262879]Isn't it actually illegal to keep your car running during winter to heat it up? I remember that from somewhere.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=http://www.wnd.com/2014/01/cold-shock-warming-up-your-car-illegal/]The shocking news of state and local regulations that make it illegal to warm up your frozen car is hitting home in Texas, Maryland, Ohio, West Virginia, Colorado, Wisconsin, South Carolina – even some cities in Minnesota. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;48262257] You know how Teslas have all of their vehicle controls going through that nice computer in the dash, and how they can remotely access your car? Well, you've just opened yourself up to this type of hacking. I'm not saying it's the end of the world, just that it's going to happen with the way they are currently doing things.[/QUOTE] No one has been able to hack a Tesla without physical access to the car and even with physical access no one has been able to get access to the engine compartment. Someone did manage to gain access to the functions that can be accessed via the mobile app at a security conference but it required you to capture the packets coming from someone using the app on their phone.

[QUOTE=cartman300;48262879]Isn't it actually illegal to keep your car running during winter to heat it up? I remember that from somewhere.[/QUOTE] First I've heard of it and I lived in one of those states where it's illegal.

the system is attatched to things like the transmission and steering and such for parking assist, lane assist and shit. basically, on a car i know of (infiniti q50) you can tell it to steer the fucking car back into lane if you drift on the motorway, sensors tell you how close to ramming into a car you are while reversing but can also take control of the steering to ease you into a tight spot if you're that way inclined.

Okay, no fucking way am I going to connect my car to the Internet.

[QUOTE=cartman300;48262879]Isn't it actually illegal to keep your car running during winter to heat it up? I remember that from somewhere.[/QUOTE] I would still do it. The amount of wear and tear that is put on an ICE by driving it before it warms up is larger than at any other time, ESPECIALLY if it's cold outside. Fluids need to warm up and reach their appropriate viscosities before they can be useful. [QUOTE=Morgen;48262994]No one has been able to hack a Tesla without physical access to the car and even with physical access no one has been able to get access to the engine compartment. Someone did manage to gain access to the functions that can be accessed via the mobile app at a security conference but it required you to capture the packets coming from someone using the app on their phone.[/QUOTE] Can't do it now =/= will never be able to. Do you also think that Macs can't get viruses?

This is why Tesla's computers are awesome, it's two completely separate modules.

[QUOTE=gk99;48262037]I honestly have 0 want for a computer in my car. Give me a way to charge my phone and bam, I've got everything a car computer could offer me. Pandora? Auxillary cord. GPS? Google maps. etc.[/QUOTE] I'm still a fan of a car having a computer for doing things like monitoring engine issues, checking tire pressures, controlling the traction control, monitoring tow trailers, etc etc.

[QUOTE=Morgen;48262994]No one has been able to hack a Tesla without physical access to the car and even with physical access no one has been able to get access to the engine compartment. Someone did manage to gain access to the functions that can be accessed via the mobile app at a security conference but it required you to capture the packets coming from someone using the app on their phone.[/QUOTE] for what it's worth: [url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2015/07/14/tesla-hacking-defcon/[/url] "Finally we will also be releasing several 0day vulnerabilities that will allow you to hack a Tesla Model S yourself - both locally and [B]remotely[/B]. Note - only one of the 6 vulnerabilities we will discuss and release has been fixed. "

[QUOTE=acidcj;48262582]Okay, as a professional security researcher, these "hackers" seriously piss me off. Did they [I]really[/I] have to test this on a public road at 70 mph? Did they really have to obscure the drivers vision AND disconnect them from any audio sensory from the outside world (blasting music)? Not only that, but they did this on a section of the highway with no shoulder. Trucks going at 70 mph take a [B]long time to stop[/B]. If the 18-wheeler hadn't seen him in time, was at all distracted or anything, he may have had to swerve or do an emergency stop and people could have been seriously injured in resulting crashes. This kind of attitude is what encourages lawmakers to make it harder for researchers to actually solve security problems in a responsible manner. Can you imagine the headlines if some people had gotten killed in this stunt?[/QUOTE] Sure they may want to have spent thousands of dollars just to get a private strip of road all to themselves, but this was a real world demonstration of what could very easily happen if incidents like these keep manifesting. People [I]will[/I] die if traditional manufacturers can't learn not to hook the engine and the transmission to the entertainment system.

[QUOTE=GunFox;48263812]I'm still a fan of a car having a computer for doing things like monitoring engine issues, checking tire pressures, controlling the traction control, monitoring tow trailers, etc etc.[/QUOTE] Then run it independent from the internet enabled systems. There's no reason for the ECU to have anything more than a wired ODB interconnect for external devices to monitor and externally control it.

[QUOTE=wickedplayer494;48264765]Sure they may want to have spent thousands of dollars just to get a private strip of road all to themselves, but this was a real world demonstration of what could very easily happen if incidents like these keep manifesting. People [I]will[/I] die if traditional manufacturers can't learn not to hook the engine and the transmission to the entertainment system.[/QUOTE] I'd like to see the assessment they provided to their review board comparing the risk of their actions with the risk of not doing their actions.

Imagine becoming a fugitive for a menial crime. Let's say, marijuana possession, or pirating something off the internet. Now try to think about escaping the unjust law, which nobody in this manic world will care about, and everything around you being electronic, and accessible by the police. Even if you submit to the ultimate power of the law, and whatever they enforce, you will have to keep in mind that there are people not working for them using their hacking powers for their own intent. It isn't the end of the world, but you can see it from here.

Holy shit, I saw this on /g/ last night and thought it was just some stupid troll. This is genuinely fucking scary. Why is there no longer a physical connection of the brake pedal to the brakes? That's just fucking asking for it.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;48262104]Convenience comes at the cost of security. Most people will opt for convenience over security. That's why you have gaping security problems like people sticky noting their passwords to their monitors.[/QUOTE] depending on your living/working situations sticky noting your passwords can actually be an extremely secure option. a person is more likely to remotely get access to your computer than physically, and unless you're working in an office building or expecting people who would break in tk be breaking in to be there for your accounts, a hacker can't see notes you've written

I feel like this is going to be a huge issue when self driving cars start getting sold.

[QUOTE=Tmaxx;48264951]Holy shit, I saw this on /g/ last night and thought it was just some stupid troll. This is genuinely fucking scary. Why is there no longer a physical connection of the brake pedal to the brakes? That's just fucking asking for it.[/QUOTE] They are supposed to. Because the weird thing is, you shouldn't even need your engine or any electronics for your brakes to operate. It will be more difficult because of not having power assist, but they should still do something.

That's what I'm saying. I've driven old shit box cars my whole life and have had engines stall out on me plenty of times while driving, yet I still had 100% control of the car/truck, just a little harder to steer/stop. What the fuck happens if your engine dies in a modern car? Does it just turn into an uncontrollable greased dildo shot out of a potato canon?

Maybe this will lead to manufacturers deciding that least privilege might be good practice in car electronics too. Because right now, its looking like cars might as well be running Windows 95 where anything has access to everything.

[QUOTE=Demache;48265335]Maybe this will lead to manufacturers deciding that least privilege might be good practice in car electronics too.[/QUOTE] They won't even think of changing a thing unless every man and woman in America jumps to protest.

Fly by wire throttle/brake/steering is an awful idea and I've said this for a long time. They need to return to, and stay with, mechanical linkages. Too many potential failure points with computer controlled equipment. Hell, have the computer control the mechanical linkages. But don't cut the driver off from manual control if it comes down to it.

The joys of owning a old truck

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;48261966]This is why I hate modern vehicles. Computerization has gone way too far. Not only is it making vehicles more vulnerable to attacks, but it's also making it more and more difficult to modify vehicles without messing up something completely unrelated.[/QUOTE] The only computerized thing I think makes sense in a car I drive is maybe the navigation system. All else doesn't really need to be computerized. And fuck connecting your car to the internet IMHO.

Computerization does make sense. It allows for for exact and efficient fuel control, and numerous safety systems like automatic brakes and a 4 wheel drive that puts the most power to the wheels with the best grip etc. However, any and all of those systems should NOT even have physical contact with a system that has an Internet connection. You also don't need to start the engine to pre-heat the car in the winter. Both our cars have engine and compartment heaters which runs on electricity. Since ours are a bit older, you need to plug it in to a power outlet at the front, but that could just as well run off the battery and with a timer.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;48262008]Convenience[/QUOTE] You mean indulgence? A computerized system needs not the internet, even up to having a comm like OnStar. [QUOTE=Banshee FrieNd;48265232]I feel like this is going to be a huge issue when self driving cars start getting sold.[/QUOTE] There will be deaths.

The solution is to pull the SIM from the car. The incompetent who thought it was a good idea to connect the online entertainment system to the critical systems should be fired.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;48261966]This is why I hate modern vehicles. Computerization has gone way too far. Not only is it making vehicles more vulnerable to attacks, but it's also making it more and more difficult to modify vehicles without messing up something completely unrelated.[/QUOTE] I think the whole computerization was sort of an argument for introducing the idea of "banning" the tuning of your own car a while back. Cars becoming too complicated to tune yourself or some shit. Which obviously a lot of people had a quarrel with. Although I'm sure even self-trained car enthusiasts and mechanics alike will get accustomed to computerization in the future, and will definitely go even further with computer systems in their cars. Possibly, they will become even more of a thing.

[QUOTE=RoboChimp;48266971]The solution is to pull the SIM from the car. The incompetent who thought it was a good idea to connect the online entertainment system to the critical systems should be fired.[/QUOTE] 1st off, this is going to get a lot harder when cars adopt the emulated sims that carriers are switching to, its going to happen because it'll make the whole system easier and cheaper to manufacture (because currently someone gets paid to insert SIM cards into every single car), 2nd i almost wonder if this is a result of having electrical engineers and computer engineers working on a car with the intent for things to just work and no thought for security, or if this is a deliberate act to put backdoors on car ECUs for law enforcement, repossession agencies, and dealerships and they just have shit security

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;48268173]I think the whole computerization was sort of an argument for introducing the idea of "banning" the tuning of your own car a while back. Cars becoming too complicated to tune yourself or some shit. Which obviously a lot of people had a quarrel with. Although I'm sure even self-trained car enthusiasts and mechanics alike will get accustomed to computerization in the future, and will definitely go even further with computer systems in their cars. Possibly, they will become even more of a thing.[/QUOTE] It was an excuse used by automakers when they were trying to get their ECU programming copyright protected. They want to have the ECU control everything instead of having it just control the engine. [QUOTE=Sableye;48269061]1st off, this is going to get a lot harder when cars adopt the emulated sims that carriers are switching to, its going to happen because it'll make the whole system easier and cheaper to manufacture (because currently someone gets paid to insert SIM cards into every single car), 2nd i almost wonder if this is a result of having electrical engineers and computer engineers working on a car with the intent for things to just work and no thought for security, or if this is a deliberate act to put backdoors on car ECUs for law enforcement, repossession agencies, and dealerships and they just have shit security[/QUOTE] It's a combination of factors. Automakers DO add in back doors on their ECUs so that the models with shit like OnStar can use those features. What features you ask? Locking/unlocking doors, gps location, starting/stoping the car, etc. In fact, one of the "selling points" of systems like OnStar is that if your car gets stolen, they can alert the police of it's exact location and disable it.