• Judge: State ban on protests at military funerals unconstitutional
    230 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Cpl. Combine;24123685]Considering their website is godhatesfags.com and literally has the word "hate" in it I'd say it's out of hate, I'm not trying to start a fight or say you're wrong or anything like that, I'm just saying, some of the stuff this group says does sound like hate speech They never specifically say that they hate soldiers, or anyone other then homosexuals, their main problem is society's general acceptance of gay people, who they hate due to their religious beliefs, it isn't because they disagree with the war or anything like that. They apparently consider the deaths of servicemen in the war god's retribution for society not outright hating gays, they even had signs thanking god for the space shuttle disaster, they're loons[/QUOTE] In that aspect they are indeed loons. True, God may say that homosexuals are wrong, but it's also clearly stated we are never to judge our fellow man and are to always have respect for another. Too bad most "fundamentalist Christians" only pick-and-choose from the Bible and religion.
.[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;24123650]So because they disagree means it's hate?[/quote] Are you implying that they cause imotional distress and stalk, mob and haze mourning families for any reason other than their hate for others? It can be worked the other way as well. I disagree with you so I'm going to stalk and haze your and cause you distress and grief untill you agree with me.
Why can't Muslim and Christian extremists ever go after each other. I'd be fine with a car bomb at the WBC's compound. Or the WBC attempting to picket a....uhhh...cave...in...the mountains of...Pakistan?
[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;24123806]In that aspect they are indeed loons. True, God may say that homosexuals are wrong, but it's also [B]clearly stated we are never to judge our fellow man[/B] and are to always have respect for another. [/QUOTE] That's the problem with these people though. They smoke screen their taunts by claiming it's not them who are saying it, but God himself. They try to pass the hate and blame as far away from themselves as they can.
[QUOTE=Hallucinate;24123131]How is it illegal to stop the church harassing mourners but it's legal to stop me harassing that blonde on my street?[/QUOTE] They aren't harassing anyone. They use ambigious terms like "God hates gays". Or "God hates the military" They don't say something like "I hate Tim Johnson"
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;24123957]They aren't harassing anyone. They use ambigious terms like "God hates gays". Or "God hates the military" They don't say something like "I hate Tim Johnson"[/QUOTE] I didn't say I'd be harassing out of hate, I could post signs everywhere saying I love Tim Johnson, but if he gets fed up with it he can get a court order to stop me saying it. Why can't there be a court order to stop something negative like this? For the record, they are stalking people and invading their personal moments with recently departed, it's a hairs width away from full harassment.
[QUOTE=Hallucinate;24124032]I didn't say I'd be harassing out of hate, I could post signs everywhere saying I love Tim Johnson, but if he gets fed up with it he can get a court order to stop me saying it. Why can't there be a court order to stop something negative like this? For the record, they are stalking people and invading their personal moments with recently departed, it's a hairs width away from full harassment.[/QUOTE] What I was saying ways they aren't targeting anyone in particular; at least in their speech. And they aren't breathing down the families neck in the cemetery. As far as I know, they stay out in the parking lot or somewhere nearby. They're not right on top of the grave.
[QUOTE=JDK721v2;24123415]banning them from the country isn't a good thing so you're a soldier, and thus you've taken an oath to uphold the constitution no matter what, but when someone does/says things that you don't like suddenly the constitution doesn't matter anymore? it doesn't work that way[/QUOTE] Yes, I took an oath to uphold the Constitution and I swore to defend this country against all enemies foreign and domestic. These people aren't upholding the Constitution they are subverting is and ridiculing it. And in the end it is my opinion every citizen of this country is responsible to uphold the Constitution and all it stands for. Excuse me for being just a tad bit prideful and offended by the lack of respect shown to us by these people. Call me a soldier again there's a difference between a soldier and a Marine, and we all prefer not to be called the other so if you don't like pissing people like us off I'd generally advise not doing it again. Banning them from the UK is a great idea, they don't want to hear what these people have to say because they're nothing short of a hate group. The UK doesn't want to deal with a hate group like this and quite frankly I don't blame them. [QUOTE=JDK721v2;24123623]except legally they ARE NOT harassing anyone[/QUOTE] Legally harassment is defined as: "abusive behavior that lowers a person’s self-esteem or causes them torment. This can take the form of verbal comments, actions or gestures. Hate Speech is considered a form of harassment and defined as; "any communication which disparages a person or a group on the basis of some characteristic such as race or sexual orientation" So legally Westboro Baptist Church is harassing the families at these funerals by tormenting them because they want the families to think God, whether you believe in him or not, wants these servicemen and women dead because of the sins this country has committed. Westboro Baptist Church has also engages in Hate Speech against all homosexuals every time they protest.
[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;24123806]In that aspect they are indeed loons. True, God may say that homosexuals are wrong, but it's also clearly stated we are never to judge our fellow man and are to always have respect for another. Too bad most "fundamentalist Christians" only pick-and-choose from the Bible and religion.[/QUOTE] Everyone picks and chooses. Adhering to both the old and new testament is literally impossible.
[QUOTE=Kais;24124122]Yes, I took an oath to uphold the Constitution and I swore to defend this country against all enemies foreign and domestic. These people aren't upholding the Constitution they are subverting is and ridiculing it. And in the end it is my opinion every citizen of this country is responsible to uphold the Constitution and all it stands for. Excuse me for being just a tad bit prideful and offended by the lack of respect shown to us by these people. Call me a soldier again there's a difference between a soldier and a Marine, and we all prefer not to be called the other so if you don't like pissing people like us off I'd generally advise not doing it again. Banning them from the UK is a great idea, they don't want to hear what these people have to say because they're nothing short of a hate group. The UK doesn't want to deal with a hate group like this and quite frankly I don't blame them. [/QUOTE] woah, jarhead rage alert. i fail to see how they are subverting the constitution, if anything they are testing and upholding the strength of it this is very similar to the skokie case ( [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Party_of_America_v._Village_of_Skokie[/url] ), and i believe it should end in the same result. by picking and choosing who has free speech, you turn a right into a privilege people should have enough self esteem to ignore these fucking idiots, by limiting their free speech you would be doing a lot more damage to this country than by allowing them to remain
[QUOTE=siberpredaht;24124335]woah, jarhead rage alert. i fail to see how they are subverting the constitution, if anything they are testing and upholding the strength of it this is very similar to the skokie case ( [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Party_of_America_v._Village_of_Skokie[/URL] ), and i believe it should end in the same result. by picking and choosing who has free speech, you turn a right into a privilege people should have enough self esteem to ignore these fucking idiots, by limiting their free speech you would be doing a lot more damage to this country than by allowing them to remain[/QUOTE] I agree they're freedom of speech shouldn't be limited but I disagree with the legality of allowing them to harass the families at a funeral.
[QUOTE=Kais;24124631]I agree they're freedom of speech shouldn't be limited but I disagree with the legality of allowing them to harass the families at a funeral.[/QUOTE] Rights can only be subverted by greater rights, the right to do whatever you want is subverted by others right to live. While some people would place the right to be free of harassment above free speech, many more understand the value of free speech and how it cannot be taken so freely. Soldiers funerals are an easy target of harrassment but they are not a plac so sacred that constitutional rights can be changed. The best way to prevent these occurances is to do like the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Guard_Riders]Patriot Guard Riders[/url] as Zeke said and express your freedom of speech just as much as them. It would probably be better for the families to have a massive counter protest in support of them instead of having no-one.
I'm on the fence on this one. In one respect, I do believe its harassment because they specifically choose big events to picket their hate. On the other hand, because its them just speaking what they think I have to agree with Devodiere, get a counter protest. I still honor the father who took WBC to court for harrasement claims, I donated money to help him pay for the countersuit loss which made him pay for their attorneys.
[QUOTE=GunFox;24123937]I'd be fine with a car bomb at the WBC's compound. [/QUOTE] great, now we have a moderator advocating murder
[QUOTE=GunFox;24123937]Why can't Muslim and Christian extremists ever go after each other. I'd be fine with a car bomb at the WBC's compound. Or the WBC attempting to picket a....uhhh...cave...in...the mountains of...Pakistan?[/QUOTE] Wow look at this, GunFox generalized Pakistanis and condoned violence in the same post
[QUOTE=JDK721v2;24125350]great, now we have a moderator advocating murder[/QUOTE] Well, we've had you basically telling people to suck it up this entire time. Its good to have some change :obama:
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;24125381]Wow look at this, GunFox generalized Pakistanis and condoned violence in the same post[/QUOTE] Well the mountains of Pakistan are where the Taliban are allegedly hiding and it is a pretty lawless and tribal territory. As for the violence, I'm pretty sure that was a joke.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;24125499]Well the mountains of Pakistan are where the Taliban are allegedly hiding and it is a pretty lawless and tribal territory. As for the violence, I'm pretty sure that was a joke.[/QUOTE] When did he mention taliban
Fucking bullshit. If you're a grieving father of a son who died fighting for his country, and 300 asshole protestors show up saying your god wanted him to die and such, that's not "free speech". That's harassment and mentally damaging somebody. This federal judge is a fucking idiot.
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;24125516]When did he mention taliban[/QUOTE] He didn't, but when you think about extremist Muslims in the mountains of Pakistan, doesn't the Taliban seem like the obvious choice?
[QUOTE=Leaf Runner;24125589]Fucking bullshit. If you're a grieving father of a son who died fighting for his country, and 300 asshole protestors show up saying your god wanted him to die and such, that's not "free speech". That's harassment and mentally damaging somebody. This federal judge is a fucking idiot.[/QUOTE] Watch it, you'll rage the ultra libertarians who don't care about peoples feelings.
[QUOTE=Leaf Runner;24125589]Fucking bullshit. If you're a grieving father of a son who died fighting for his country, and 300 asshole protestors show up saying your god wanted him to die and such, that's not "free speech". That's harassment and mentally damaging somebody. This federal judge is a fucking idiot.[/QUOTE] Yeah, fuck the constitution, my feelings are hurt [editline]11:35PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Swilly;24125613]Watch it, you'll rage the ultra libertarians who don't care about peoples feelings.[/QUOTE] Just toss the constitution in the trash
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;24125643] Just toss the constitution in the trash[/QUOTE] Thanks for generalizing :downs: It is harassment. I'm guessing you would argue otherwise?
[QUOTE=Swilly;24125658]Thanks for generalizing :downs: It is harassment. I'm guessing you would argue otherwise?[/QUOTE] while the WBC are dicks, they are not breaking any laws, they protest on public property.
[QUOTE=Swilly;24125658]Thanks for generalizing :downs: It is harassment. I'm guessing you would argue otherwise?[/QUOTE] no it's not you're silly
The constitution was written hundreds of years ago for a mostly Christian-American-only (excluding slaves) society. Things are different now. All though the constitution sounds fantastic, it's not good for this day and age with technology, media, and not to mention the fact that America is composed of many different religions and ethic groups. Saying something like "it's unconstitutional" should not be a valid argument today. Give me one good reason with citation of why we should allow funerals to be protested like this.
[QUOTE=Swilly;24125658]Thanks for generalizing :downs: It is harassment. I'm guessing you would argue otherwise?[/QUOTE] they would've been arrested by now if it was considered harassment they ARE NOT breaking any laws
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyAlt;24125673]while the WBC are dicks, they are not breaking any laws, they protest on public property.[/QUOTE] At specific events to enrage...
[QUOTE=Leaf Runner;24125709]The constitution was written hundreds of years ago for a mostly Christian-American-only (excluding slaves) society. Things are different now. All though the constitution sounds fantastic, it's not good for this day and age with technology, media, and not to mention the fact that America is composed of many different religions and ethic groups. Saying something like "it's unconstitutional" should not be a valid argument today. Give me one good reason with citation of why we should allow funerals to be protested like this.[/QUOTE] wow so right to free speech, right of due process, double jeopardy are NOT important today? what is wrong with you? one good reason: 1st amendment source: constitution. show me ONE thing in the constitution that favors christianity (ps most of the founding fathers were not christians).
[QUOTE=JDK721v2;24125734]yeah that's why they've never been arrested when there are always tons of police providing security :downs: they ARE NOT breaking any laws[/QUOTE] Seriously, common decency? Do you have it?
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