Robert Space Industries releases "Star Citizen Imagine" trailer

[JumpinJackFlash]

[QUOTE=hrak;46758799]Did you notice during the dogfighting test that the smaller ships were not only smaller, but also much weaker overall and got slapped around by people with larger and more expensive ships? This is a good indication that the game will follow an RPG-style 'carrot on a stick' model of progression, with players having to do a lot of work to progress from the shitty, small space ships to the large, expensive and powerful ones that pay-to-win players had access to as soon as the game started.[/QUOTE]Are you one of those dumb motherfuckers that were crying about the frigate guns being too powerful in BF1942? I remember that argument well, the ship guns were slaughtering the shit out of some dumbfuck clan entirely new to the game (I was in that match actually) and they were rushing to the beaches on Wake Island while the Japanese destroyer fucking mauled them when they got in the open. Americans lost that match through casualties alone (held all control points except for one lost midway through the match) because of these fucking mongoloids not understanding that big shooty shoot boom boom guns will [i]fuck you up[/i] and they wanted them nerfed because they couldn't figure out simple facts of life.

I hate people like you, there's balance and then there's just unapologetic bitching over shit that's completely sensible. Oh, big ships will completely wreck little ones? [i]What a surprise.[/i] Maybe before you start suggesting that the game is "pay to win" because people can buy an Idris you should think about the role of larger ships and their relationship with smaller ones. I'd also bet that most of those xbox huge boats will change hands [i]frequently[/i] because piracy is going to be a thing.

[editline]20th December 2014[/editline]

[QUOTE=Raidyr;46758897]Honestly as a backer I can totally see where hrak is coming from. I've echoed the same fears myself about how when the persistent universe launches it's going to be a bunch of newbies who just bought the game in Auroras getting griefed by people in Hornets and Avengers who, because of their lifetime insurance, can just keep doing it. To say nothing of the effect that groups like the Goons and Reddit can have when they have an effective monopoly on day 1 capital ships like carriers and destroyers.

Just seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot to raise more money than they really need. This policy of stratifying the playerbase to such a degree is going to backfire at some point.[/QUOTE]This is not that bad of a point, but I don't think that the game is "pay to win" by any stretch. I could claim EvE is the same way if I start out right now because people have all these cool ships I will never, ever get an opportunity to have under normal circumstances, but I would still be totally wrong.

[TheVoidDragon]

[QUOTE=Raidyr;46758897]Honestly as a backer I can totally see where hrak is coming from. I've echoed the same fears myself about how when the persistent universe launches it's going to be a bunch of newbies who just bought the game in Auroras getting griefed by people in Hornets and Avengers who, because of their lifetime insurance, can just keep doing it. To say nothing of the effect that groups like the Goons and Reddit can have when they have an effective monopoly on day 1 capital ships like carriers and destroyers.

Just seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot to raise more money than they really need. This policy of stratifying the playerbase to such a degree is going to backfire at some point.[/QUOTE]

How is that any different from someone joining the game a few months after launch and finding everyone else has different ships, though? The same thing could be done with the normal insurance as well.

[hrak]

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;46759114]Oh, big ships will completely wreck little ones? [i]What a surprise.[/i] Maybe before you start suggesting that the game is "pay to win" because people can buy an Idris you should think about the role of larger ships and their relationship with smaller ones. [/QUOTE]

I don't have to 'suggest' anything - facts are not dependent upon suggestion, and it's factually true that Star Citizen is a pay to win game.

The rest of your weird schpiel about 'big ships killing little ships is realistic' is completely irrelevant. I'm not debating how small ships would fare versus large ships in space combat IRL, I'm saying that offering powerful ships in exchange for money is the very definition of what pay to win means.

[editline]20th December 2014[/editline]

[QUOTE=nightlord;46759381]How is that any different from someone joining the game a few months after launch and finding everyone else has different ships, though? The same thing could be done with the normal insurance as well.[/QUOTE]

It's not different, except that:

1) Those ships were earned through ingame efforts. The players blowing you up with big dangerous ships earned those big dangerous ships through the merit of their gameplay, not how fat their wallets are.

2) That can only happen months after release (or however long it takes people to grind into the big dangerous ships,) while with the pay-to-win model it happens on game launch.

[Raidyr]

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;46759114]
This is not that bad of a point, but I don't think that the game is "pay to win" by any stretch. I could claim EvE is the same way if I start out right now because people have all these cool ships I will never, ever get an opportunity to have under normal circumstances, but I would still be totally wrong.[/QUOTE]
Actually one of the biggest complaints about EVE Online is the hegemony of nullsec. A few alliances own nearly everything.

CCP is trying to break it up but just imagine if EVE let you buy Titans and carriers pre-release. That's what I fear from Star Citizen, though no one really knows how PU is going to work.
[QUOTE=nightlord;46759381]How is that any different from someone joining the game a few months after launch and finding everyone else has different ships, though? The same thing could be done with the normal insurance as well.[/QUOTE]
The difference is that in one case you are straight buying power on day one with real money while in the other one you are behind on the grind. As for insurance, not only do you have to pay for it but you have to pay for it over and over again for each new ship you get where as lifetime insurance is a hull flag. They say the economic difference won't be so noticeable and I hope they stick to that but the full gameplay ramifications won't be seen until we actually try it.

But this goes to what I said about the degrees of stratification. You have alpha players, then you have module players, then you have beta players, then you have beta PU players, then you have early access, and you have a million different pledge tiers that have varying degrees of advantages, with more on the way. It's establishing this environment where players could figuratively be hundreds of hours of gameplay ahead of others, giving them an unfair advantage.

Again though, we don't know hardly anything about the PU so I'm not saying the sky is falling or it's pay2win yet. But it does worry me as someone who only wants Star Citizen to be a game where me and a friend can shoot spaceships.