Anti-Fascists Ruined a Speech by the Leader of the French National Front at Oxford Uni Last Night - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Jund;47093106]yes, if you disagree with me i will personally send a big black man to your house to beat you up. or perhaps you are sorely lacking in reading comprehension as well as proper reasoning and common sense, as you seem to believe provoked assault is the same as murder and dismemberment[/QUOTE] In your world of doing what we wish to those we disagree with, there's no real consequence and you should be at full right to do as you please to those who offend you. Though its nice to see you draw a line at murdering people for expressing their viewpoint, I guess that's something to consider. However to make a mental note: don't express opinions to Jund or black men otherwise they will assault you until you lay unconscious. [editline]7th February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=dilzinyomouth;47093108]What the fuck is this nonsense you keep bringing up This wasn't criticism, this was VIOLENCE in an attempt to SILENCE somebody from speaking at an organized event. Criticism would be hearing what she has to say and addressing her personally. Would you be saying the same shit if it was martin luther king trying to hold a public speaking event and the KKK was running around attacking people trying to hear him? Because that shit happened. The doublethink here is amazing. This is monkey shit, its "my tribe is the right tribe and anyone who gets in the way deserves what they get". [/QUOTE] Its freedom of speech until they don't like what's being said.

[QUOTE=Vasili;47092168]This is a rather written out long for for saying you think its justified for people to use violence against others political ideologies you don't like. I do not see the difference between you and a fascist, other than fascists using your philosophy to further reach their end goals (and make your political ideologies childlike, naive and violent.)[/QUOTE] That's not what I'm saying here, please don't mix up my critique of HS theory with my support for the use of coercion against fascism, because they're two different things and my justifications are different.

[QUOTE=dilzinyomouth;47093108]So Muslims shouldn't ever speak about oppression then because by western definitions sharia law and culture is oppressive to women, homosexuals and freedom of expression?[/QUOTE] Islam isn't an ideology.

[QUOTE=N0 WAR;47093187]Islam isn't an ideology.[/QUOTE] Well, it is. And unlike lots of other religions it provides for a historical political structure also, so, I mean, it definitely could be seen even as a political ideology.

[QUOTE=N0 WAR;47093098]When you support an oppressive ideology, you aren't allowed to then turn around and cry oppression.[/QUOTE] Are you seriously suggesting free speech gives you the right to disturb others who has organized their manifestation for weeks and has been granted permission by the police? There's plenty of time and space for you to organize your own manifestation to share your opinions. [QUOTE=N0 WAR;47093187]Islam isn't an ideology.[/QUOTE] So therefore it cannot be oppressive? Besides, if you open your eyes there's plenty of examples where Islam is included in political ideologies.

[QUOTE=N0 WAR;47093187]Islam isn't an ideology.[/QUOTE] It's both a religious and political ideology, and this Islamic ideology is very prominent in its governing societies, even in the west it is brought up.

[QUOTE=N0 WAR;47093187]Islam isn't an ideology.[/QUOTE] Yes it is. Definition: An ideology is a set of conscious and/or unconscious ideas which constitute one's goals, expectations, and actions. By definition, religions are ideology. And to add, more so than any other religion Islam is the driving force for laws, morals, values and political and social structure in the countries where it is dominant. It is by every conceivable metric, an ideology. You're dumb.

[QUOTE=strayebyrd;47093081]they already do, having worked with some Antifa in the past I can say quite confidently they get attacked and interrupted probably far more than this, I know a couple of people who have been hospitalised by anti-antifa people in the last year[/QUOTE] That's pretty shit. Ideally, I would like to see no violence between the two groups, because well, it just leads to further escalation. Part of the reason that Hitler managed to get into power is because a Communist burned down the reichstag and he decided to use it to his own advantage.

Challenging and changing people's beliefs, in order of effectiveness: Violence & Intimidation > Debate & Discussion > Screaming & Shouting like annoying children

When a mushroom was found to be radically different to a plant, they didn't keep calling it a plant, they made a new section called Fungi for it. The political spectrum is completely irrelevant for gauging political views anymore. We need to replace it with the political compass. [thumb]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Political_chart.svg/2000px-Political_chart.svg.png[/thumb]

[QUOTE=Deng;47093249]Part of the reason that Hitler managed to get into power is because a Communist burned down the reichstag and he decided to use it to his own advantage.[/QUOTE] Or when they were when they are fighting with Nazis in bars and clubs attempting to dismantle and interrupt/silence Hitler and others from speaking. The horseshoe theory certainly has parallels with the extreme Left and Right and it seems both share very similar political ideology regarding freedom of speech and civil liberty, which is a great shame.

[QUOTE=Megadave;47093312]When a mushroom was found to be radically different to a plant, they didn't keep calling it a plant, they made a new section called Fungi for it. The political spectrum is completely irrelevant for gauging political views anymore. We need to replace it with the political compass. [thumb]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Political_chart.svg/2000px-Political_chart.svg.png[/thumb][/QUOTE] Well, the political compass is a type of political spectrum, and they're even based on the same metrics. The political compass doesn't really provide for anything the traditional left-right spectrum doesn't, but it does add an extra layer of complexity for praxis distinctions. Honestly, though, the real problem isn't solvable by adding another axis, because it's the issue of left-right, which is completely arbitrary and only works when comparing relativity between ideologies, and so it's kind of bleh with some ideologies. Also there aren't really any new ideologies of any significance, everything we have today has been around for at least 100 years, and they didn't have any issues with the spectrum then.

gb is up there with sweden how pathetic truly the 2 countrys we need to get the fuck out of Europe.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;47092926]Well try to see how far it'll get you if you claim it's perfectly within your free speech to silence critics of your views. Your definition is not how freedom of speech is treated in practice.[/QUOTE] What. How would one manage to use their right to free speech for censorship when it would be violating others' right to free speech in the first place?

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;47092508]Marine Le Pen needs to fucking go. She's a trouble seeking drama queen who's done nothing but needlessly stir shit up. Her entire agenda is a big bowl of hate and bigoted stupidity. Surprised Headshotter hasn't showed up to wank her all day long already.[/QUOTE] I'm not even bothering anymore, I'll just keep an eye out for your reaction when her party's wins the next 2 elections showing up. I might bath in your tears, not sure yet.

[QUOTE=AlexDeviant;47093379]gb is up there with sweden how pathetic truly the 2 countrys we need to get the fuck out of Europe.[/QUOTE] The fuck are you trying to say mr baguette.

[QUOTE=headshotter;47093677]I'm not even bothering anymore, I'll just keep an eye out for your reaction when her party's wins the next 2 elections showing up. I might bath in your tears, not sure yet.[/QUOTE] i didn't know you were a conservative. bliblix right?

[QUOTE=Slim Charles;47093848]i didn't know you were a conservative. bliblix right?[/QUOTE] I don't believe in the whole "liberal/conservative" cleavage, but yeah I have my fair share of common grounds with the FN. Ay that's me!

[QUOTE=headshotter;47093884]I don't believe in the whole "liberal/conservative" cleavage, but yeah I have my fair share of common grounds with the FN. Ay that's me![/QUOTE] What's so good with FN. I assume immigration politics, but aside from that?

[QUOTE=BloodRayne;47092825] And you would prefer your other two mainstream parties who run france into the ground?[/QUOTE] I'd prefer not having to choose between two bickering shitlords and a crazy bigoted cunt.

Another thing I find fascinating is why anyone would want to vote for a party that's all about dissolving the union that the European countries have been trying to create for the past decades. And trying to appease to Russia of all countries in the world. It's a pattern that all far-right parties show. Shit like this worries me for real. [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/40m-of-russian-cash-will-allow-marine-le-pens-front-national-to-take-advantage-of-rivals-woes-in-upcoming-regional-and-presidential-elections-9888509.html[/url] [url]http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/08/russia-europe-right-putin-front-national-eu[/url] [url]http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/12/26/371670726/europes-far-right-and-putin-get-cozy-with-benefits-for-both[/url]

[QUOTE=headshotter;47093677]I'm not even bothering anymore, I'll just keep an eye out for your reaction when her party's wins the next 2 elections showing up. I might bath in your tears, not sure yet.[/QUOTE] The FN isn't going to win any presidential elections because everyone who's able to vote in France will mass vote [I]against[/I] le pen or any other FN candidate if they get past first ballot. Remember 2002 and the 80%. It happened once and it'll happen again, there's a lot of people who are too dumb to vote regularly but just smart enough to know when to get their head out of their ass and prevent a far right wing extremist party from entering presidency. The FN as a whole is an extremely sensationalist party that essentially does nothing but appeal to emotion and cash in on the fears of some of the less sensible citizens of France to forward an extremely ignorant and hateful agenda. Their entire set of policies is made of strategies that were tried before and lamentably failed time and time again. If protectionism and isolationism couldn't succeed a century ago it's not going to succeed now. Not to mention the constant cocksucking of Russia. Hollande shaking the hand of the new king of Saudi Arabia to try and get a cut on oil prices was a god damn disgrace but Le Pen trying to get the favors of Putin is on the same level as Sarkozy getting money from Gadhafi for his campaign a few years back and then inviting the fucker as a prime guest on the 14th of July.

[QUOTE=Swebonny;47093894]What's so good with FN. I assume immigration politics, but aside from that?[/QUOTE] National sovereignty, foreign affairs and economics. That and fucking over the PS and UMP who have been terribly corrupt and running our country into the ground for the past decades. We won't have anything to lose by electing the FN, worse case scenario they're exactly like the others and won't change shit. They're not willing to simply quit the European Union, they're planning on going back the Franc money and renegociating the Schengen area (customs, controlling immigration [=/= forbidding]). That's fair game considering the last time the french people were asked about an European treaty was in 2005 for Lisbon's one, they voted no... yet in 2008 a renamed version of said treaty was ratified without the people's consent. Besides, if the FN were to pass in 2017, they wouldn't simply go ahead and do that. They want to use the referendum more often. [editline]7th February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;47093958]The FN isn't going to win any presidential elections because everyone who's able to vote in France will mass vote [I]against[/I] le pen or any other FN candidate if they get past first ballot. Remember 2002 and the 80%. It happened once and it'll happen again, there's a lot of people who are too dumb to vote regularly but just smart enough to know when to get their head out of their ass and prevent a far right wing extremist party from entering presidency. The FN as a whole is an extremely sensationalist party that essentially does nothing but appeal to emotion and cash in on the fears of some of the less sensible citizens of France to forward an extremely ignorant and hateful agenda. Their entire set of policies is made of strategies that were tried before and lamentably failed time and time again. If protectionism and isolationism couldn't succeed a century ago it's not going to succeed now.[/QUOTE] You're aware of the cantonnales and régionales coming up right. 2017 is far from now, trying to predict anything would be stupid. [editline]7th February 2015[/editline] We have more to win by keeping a good relationship with Russia than condemning them every five seconds. I couldn't care less about "morals", we are in no position to judge them.

Yes because you can trust a party that's been run by a single family since its creation to not delve neck-deep into nepotism and be a totally straight forward and clean party - especially after sucking up to Putin repeatedly. You'd have to be deluded to think the FN isn't full of shit, and you'd have to be stupid to think going back to the Franc (an absurdly weak currency that wouldn't hold for shit in the modern world) would improve anything. [editline]7th February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=headshotter;47094013]We have more to win by keeping a good relationship with Russia than condemning them every five seconds. I couldn't care less about "morals", we are in no position to judge them.[/QUOTE] Yes we're in a position to fucking judge them we're a democracy and unless Russia we don't cheat when we elect the fucking president. Since when was sucking dictatorial cock for campaign money acceptable ? If Sarkozy got shit for it then no reason why Le Pen wouldn't. Besides even if we forget the whole ethical aspect there's still the fact that Russia's been fucking invading Ukraine for like a year now and has shown no will to back off and their economy is down the shitter so I don't see how associating yourself and sympathizing with a belligerent invading nation that's running out of money can be good for anything at all.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;47094050]Yes because you can trust a party that's been run by a single family since its creation to not delve neck-deep into nepotism and be a totally straight forward and clean party - especially after sucking up to Putin repeatedly. You'd have to be deluded to think the FN isn't full of shit, and you'd have to be stupid to think going back to the Franc (an absurdly weak currency that wouldn't hold for shit in the modern world) would improve anything. [editline]7th February 2015[/editline] Yes we're in a position to fucking judge them we're a democracy and unless Russia we don't cheat when we elect the fucking president. Since when was sucking dictatorial cock for campaign money acceptable ? If Sarkozy got shit for it then no reason why Le Pen wouldn't.[/QUOTE] I'd rather trust a Le Pen than a Sarkozy or a Hollande, I'm willing to debate over a program, not names. You seem to have little to no political knowledge so I'll take your insults as a compliment. We are in no position as a western world country who actively participated and still participates in military operations to judge the Russians over their foreign politics. You're the delusionnal one if you think things are easy enough to claim we're the good democratic ones and they're the bad dictatorial ones. [editline]7th February 2015[/editline] They didn't suck any dictatorial cock for campaign money, they contracted a loan to a russian bank because no french bank would loan to the FN. They provided proof of their claim. There's your perfect french democracy for you.

[QUOTE=headshotter;47094085] [editline]7th February 2015[/editline] They didn't suck any dictatorial cock for campaign money, they contracted a loan to a russian bank because no french bank would loan to the FN. They provided proof of their claim. There's your perfect french democracy for you.[/QUOTE] I'm seriously asking here, what was the reason for denying the loan? I mean the actual official reason? Because loaning money to someone/something that cannot be reasonably expected to pay it back is basically a donation dressed up to seem more acceptable.

We don't invade other nations and claim territories as our own. We don't get opponents to the president exiled or eliminated to suppress opposition. We don't vote laws to directly fuck over a part of the population because they're part of a minority. That alone puts us on ground to actually legitimately and rightfully criticize Russia. There is no sensible comparison to be made between sending troops on foreign soil in a war context and outright invading populated land to claim as your own. Your whole point on debating/voting on programs and not names makes no god damn sense because for one you literally just dismissed two political parties based on the name of their latest leaders and for two Marine Le Pen is outright praised like the savior of France by her followers more than any other party praises their own leader. The sheer cult of personality that's built around the Le Pen family is astounding, and most of the followers and activists of the party use some very shoddy stratagems to promote the party, notably by covering every possible inch of walls of public ad space with banners praising Le Pen and promoting homophobia (I've seen a shitton of those during the talks about the gay marriage laws, all bearing the FN letters, colors and logo), and not just during election time but at absolutely any time of year - at my university, all the public ad spaces get entirely replaced by what I can only describe as FN propaganda every week, with no program or mention of a program at all - it's just Le Pen's name or her face directly associated with buzzwords like "true French values" or "France to the French" (what the fuck does that even mean), glorifying her above all else. This is something I've literally never seen any other party bother doing. Hell, during last elections most of the official spots for candidate posters (which cannot be legally tampered with and are strictly reserved to one per candidate) were replaced by FN posters, and when the local service replaced them, people did the exact same thing again. FN supporters are outright obsessive with their promotion of Le Pen as a savior of sorts. So yeah, don't try to argue about politics being about names rather than program with the FN being an exception when the FN is in fact the absolute worst offender of this trend.

[QUOTE=Swebonny;47093793]The fuck are you trying to say mr baguette.[/QUOTE] I think you understand me very well, I don't know if the politics in Sweden reflect their people but if it don't things need to change.

[QUOTE=Jund;47092859]it's easy to say that it's violating your freedom of speech when they're against something you're disposed to freedom of speech protects you from the government censorship and means the government, through the police, will try to defend you from illegal harm because of your views to the best of its ability social experiment go up to the largest black man you can find and say that niggers belong in chains. in the second before you fall unconscious, contemplate whether or not he is silencing your right to freedom of speech no, you are a dumbass[/QUOTE] [I]If[/I] he acts violently he indeed is, because he's violating it by proxy of a whole bunch of your other rights, and you can sue him for damages (where relevant) in addition to the state-run assault case for unjustified violence. The law is pretty clear on speech being protected from violent opposition, but it's not spelled out explicitly because use of violence is more heavily regulated anyway. Your example is pointless to the point of being abstruse.

[QUOTE=AlexDeviant;47094181]I think you understand me very well, I don't know if the politics in Sweden reflect their people but if it don't things need to change.[/QUOTE] ok