Judge Upholds Key Provisions Of N.Y. Gun-Control Law - Polidicks

In fact read this, it's a classic: [url]http://suntzusaid.com/[/url] Nice read, and it's a lot shorter and less verbose than Clausewitz (I read him in school and at some points it was a bloody nightmare).

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;43397400]All of the world's existing tyrannies hate the US, and if they became a tyranny their democratic allies would hate them too.[/QUOTE] But the US and other countries side with tyrannies all the time when its in their interest.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;43397430]But the US and other countries side with tyrannies all the time when its in their interest.[/QUOTE] yeah but do you think North Korea is going to send Norinco T62's and Syria is going to send some surplus MI-8's to a tyrannical US government in the midst of a civil war? Answer is no.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;43397543]yeah but do you think North Korea is going to send Norinco T62's and Syria is going to send some surplus MI-8's to a tyrannical US government in the midst of a civil war? Answer is no.[/QUOTE] I never suggested that there is a secret villains club of evil world governments lmao what crack have you been smoking. I'm just saying that its stupid to suggest that autocratic regimes don't have foreign support too. There is a long list of dictators that America and other 'democratic' countries help and have helped.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;43397465]They had to cancel early out programs for the marine corps because too many people took advantage of them. They canceled early out programs for the navy as well, because too many people were using them. People attempted to get out in DROVES. Some had jobs, some were going to go to school, some didn't have either, they just wanted out of a terrible job that encourages as many hoops as possible to finishing your job. There's something to be said for the people who endure it for 20 years, but for most people, they'd rather go hungry than work for a job that, on average, works 15 hour days, has below minimum wage payments, and has so many loop holes in the contract that whenever you try to collect the benefits that YOU earn, they say "lol no, you didn't file form B293494, you lose all your benefits, sorry, bitch. Really the only reason people don't desert is because they'd rather not spend 20 years in a federal military prison. They'd rather do their 4 years of bullshit and then get out and do something useful.[/QUOTE] Is this seriously compromising the military of the USA? Do soldiers still follow orders? Are the officers and generals competent and know how to achieve their objectives? Are there serious structural flaws within the military itself? What about the political system, the massive civil service, availability of credit for military use, foreign nations?

[QUOTE=NoDachi;43397579]I never suggested that there is a secret villains club of evil world governments lmao what crack have you been smoking. I'm just saying that its stupid to suggest that autocratic regimes don't have foreign support too. There is a long list of dictators that America and other 'democratic' countries help and have helped.[/QUOTE] I'm not denying that the US hasn't supported some pretty fucked up shit in the past. But I don't think they're gonna get away with something that would start a civil war on their own soil, since the US is pretty much center-stage in front of the whole world at all times. Just look at the reactions across the world because of the NSA shit thats been going down.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;43397643]I'm not denying that the US hasn't supported some pretty fucked up shit in the past. But I don't think they're gonna get away with something that would start a civil war on their own soil, since the US is pretty much center-stage in front of the whole world at all times. Just look at the reactions across the world because of the NSA shit thats been going down.[/QUOTE] I'm just saying if there is a vested interest in regime change not happening in the USA - which is likely, then the government will be supported. The world economy would probably prefer for things to go back to 'normal' as soon as possible.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43397176]This depends on the context of this hypothetical civil war. The US military would have some desertion, but to be honest they would be very low and punished harshly by the regime. The entire concept of a professional military is built around the idea of using discipline to maintain order and to ensure the soldiers do their job. A good general knows the condition of his men and what they can be used for. He uses the elite forces when he actually needs them, and he seldom puts men into action he knows are rebellious or have questionable loyalties. It also largely depends on how competent each side is. At the present moment in time, if all of the "militias" not a part of the army would be crushed very quickly. In fact I'd reckon some of these militias could be arrested by the police force instead of using the army. Vets are a mixed bag. They have experience and know military strategy, but they don't constitute an organized military and effective fighting force. Kings and rulers found this shit out the hard way during the 16th through 19th centuries as they found that buying loads of guns and giving it to their existing armies wasn't enough. They had to build an entire ministry, taxation systems, logistical supply chains, practically create the modern state in order to administrate modern armies. Now in the modern era armies are very capable at conducting wars. Civilians, by and large, don't experience war. It's why civilians aren't the ones fighting and winning wars. They're the ones getting [b]killed[/b] if they try to do that. Why do popular revolutions succeed? Hint: It's because the army defects or collapses, not because of a few nutters with guns.[/QUOTE] By your reasoning, by downplaying the importance of insurgency, the French Resistance didn't matter in WW2, Algeria never rebelled against French rule, and Rhodesia is still a country. That's all that needs to be said.

[QUOTE=catbarf;43397675]By your reasoning, by downplaying the importance of insurgency, the French Resistance didn't matter in WW2, Algeria never rebelled against French rule, and Rhodesia is still a country. That's all that needs to be said.[/QUOTE] The French Resistance had massive outside support and was in the middle of a world war. Not to mention there is a huge leap from being 'important' to complete regime change. The french in Algeria were incompetent. Both points he's already covered. So yes, you need to say more.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;43397643]I'm not denying that the US hasn't supported some pretty fucked up shit in the past. But I don't think they're gonna get away with something that would start a civil war on their own soil, since the US is pretty much center-stage in front of the whole world at all times. Just look at the reactions across the world because of the NSA shit thats been going down.[/QUOTE] Need I remind you of the embarrassment of the British colonial regime in Kenya? It was a pretty important nation and centre stage. It got away with not only keeping the civil war there under wraps, but managed to torture and rape a lot of innocent people and corral them into concentration camps. (The Brits tortured Barack Obamas grandfather but don't tell anybody lol). Or perhaps when the UN more or less ignored the genocide in Rwanda. Or the western world supporting Pol Pot noodle after he destroyed Cambodia and fled to Thailand. I can assure you that it wouldn't be a romantic war. More than likely it will be an uprising of middle aged fat white southern conservatives and gun owners. Maybe all the other nutty libertarians as well. The state would win. I can assure you of this.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;43397701]So yes, you need to say more.[/QUOTE] No, not really. The French Resistance, despite outside assistance, dealt significant damage to German logistics in France and greatly helped the Allies to reclaim France. The Algerians led an insurgency against French rule and single-handedly overthrew them, despite the deployment of elite French troops who had ample experience with insurgency, having been part of the Resistance themselves. And lastly, ZIPRA and ZANLA conducted independent campaigns against the Rhodesian military that after a long decade of fighting eventually led to substantial political restructuring. That's leaving aside numerous examples of guerrillas helping to defend their country alongside the regular military in times of invasion or even occupation, such as Vietnam or the Philippines during WW2. History shows that an insurgency does not need to single-handedly throw off a government to be important, nor do they absolutely require outside intervention to achieve demonstrable political results. The effectiveness of insurgencies even against modern military forces is not something that can be dismissed as insignificant.

[QUOTE=catbarf;43397918]History shows that an insurgency does not need to single-handedly throw off a government to be important[/QUOTE] sure but I think you're in the wrong thread then

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;43392740]"hi i'd like to buy a tank" lets face it, warfare technology is at the point where it's not like you can go to the general store and pick up a gun and be ready to go kill some commies[/QUOTE] [I][B]GET YO ARMOR HE-AH! WE GOT US ISRAELI TANKS, AMERICAN TANKS, FAST ATTACK VEHICLES, SOVIET TANKS, AND EVEN A RARE BRITISH TANK REDONE IN OLD GLORY'S COLORS[/B][/I] [url]http://armyjeeps.net/armor1.htm[/url]

[QUOTE=darunner;43398231][I][B]GET YO ARMOR HE-AH! WE GOT US ISRAELI TANKS, AMERICAN TANKS, FAST ATTACK VEHICLES, SOVIET TANKS, AND EVEN A RARE BRITISH TANK REDONE IN OLD GLORY'S COLORS[/B][/I] [url]http://armyjeeps.net/armor1.htm[/url][/QUOTE] [quote]Steel hull - plywood upper structure including turret.[/quote] nice

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43398261]nice[/QUOTE] $85 grand gets you a T-55.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;43398324]$85 grand gets you a T-55.[/QUOTE] 85 grand gets you a very expensive metal casket to bury your fused remains in

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43397718]Need I remind you of the embarrassment of the British colonial regime in Kenya? It was a pretty important nation and centre stage. It got away with not only keeping the civil war there under wraps, but managed to torture and rape a lot of innocent people and corral them into concentration camps. (The Brits tortured Barack Obamas grandfather but don't tell anybody lol). Or perhaps when the UN more or less ignored the genocide in Rwanda. Or the western world supporting Pol Pot noodle after he destroyed Cambodia and fled to Thailand. I can assure you that it wouldn't be a romantic war. More than likely it will be an uprising of middle aged fat white southern conservatives and gun owners. Maybe all the other nutty libertarians as well. The state would win. I can assure you of this.[/QUOTE] You can't really compare a genocide that happened nearly a hundred years ago, or even one that only happened a few decades ago, to something that would happen in modern times. Social media plays a large roll in revolutions now, take Egypt for example. Part of the reason the Syrian revolution has been so well known about is because of the combat videos and the videos of Syrian government slaughtering civilians. It's a lot easier to stop a single reporter with a pen and paper than it is to stop a cellphone video being uploaded to youtube and liveleak. If some serious shit goes down, people are going to pull out their cell phones, record it, and put it on the internet for the world to see. It's hard to keep things a secret in this day and age.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;43398324]$85 grand gets you a T-55.[/QUOTE] Ahahahhahaha. Its an obsolete and aging tank. It can't stand up to modern armies that's insane. You would be better off with a bicycle and a pistol.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43398489]Ahahahhahaha. Its an obsolete and aging tank. It can't stand up to modern armies that's insane. You would be better off with a bicycle and a pistol.[/QUOTE] It's still used by 50 countries today. I recognize most are probably African shitholes.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;43398528]It's still used by 50 countries today. I recognize most are probably African shitholes.[/QUOTE] And bear in mind these countries will have updated or modified their stock, plus have the actual capabilities to keep tanks in the field. Then this begs the biggest question of all. Why the fuck is the guerrilla force using ancient tanks?

I'd imagine that a rebellion force in the United States would work to steal tanks and their necessary supplies (fuel, ammo) from US military bases. Good luck finding fuel and the compatible shells for a T-55 in Oklahoma.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;43398617]I'd imagine that an rebellion force in the United States would work to stealtanks and their necessary supplies (fuel, ammo) from US military bases. Good luck finding fuel and the compatible shells for a T-55 in Oklahoma.[/QUOTE] if bonnie and clyde can do it, why can't bubba and cooter do it

[QUOTE=NoDachi;43398192]sure but I think you're in the wrong thread then[/QUOTE] How so? Without the French supporting us, we would have never won our independence in the first place, so it's not like getting help from foreign powers in fighting a revolution is a completely alien concept.

[QUOTE=Mr. Foster;43392943]Standard issue M16A4 is semi and 3-round burst. They are trained with both, but rely on semi to conserve ammo. M4s are still standard issue for many units as well, and they are semi and full-auto. Without making a gigantic list of firearms used by the armed forces, lets just say that full-auto is still widely used by them.[/QUOTE] The M4 is semi and 3 round burst, you're thinking of the M4A1 which is semi and full auto. The M4 is standard issue for the army whereas the M4A1 is more for special forces

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43392840]The problem here is that military theory goes further than that. If you have insurgents like that, you gotta cover a whole lot of shit. How do you keep morale among them? How do you prevent them defecting? How do you procure supplies (munitions, food, bedding, shelter, etc) for them? How do you travel? How do you maintain the integrity of the unit? How is the unit organized? Is there a general staff or something else to coordinate efforts? (Despite what one may think, having a bunch of people randomly attack patrols is not a way to win, it must be used to achieve long term goals). Who supports you? Where can you get more recruits and where can you build power bases? Can you set up a headquarters? Can you get foreign assistance? How do you manage telecommunications? [B]If America decided to go full madcap and started dumping people in FEMA camps, the militias would most likely be hunted down by drones.[/B][/QUOTE] Am I the only one that realizes taking people out with drones causes enough of a shitstorm as it is? If houses just started getting obliterated left and right (In populated areas), I think you'd have a little more to worry about then militias. *Cough* Pretty much any country with a populous who aren't total derps coming in and attempting to prevent the US from obliterating it's own people.*Cough*

[QUOTE=TheMrFailz;43401598] *Cough* Pretty much any country with a populous who aren't total derps coming in and attempting to prevent the US from obliterating it's own people.*Cough*[/QUOTE] Maybe Libya could step in and return the favour of freedom and liberty.

[QUOTE=catbarf;43399100]How so? Without the French supporting us, we would have never won our independence in the first place, so it's not like getting help from foreign powers in fighting a revolution is a completely alien concept.[/QUOTE] because thats kinda the point already being made Stuff like this is pretty much always decided by military defections or outside help, not private ownership. [editline]3rd January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=TheMrFailz;43401598]*Cough* Pretty much any country with a populous who aren't total derps coming in and attempting to prevent the US from obliterating it's own people.*Cough*[/QUOTE] No one prevented Assad obliterating his own people even after he used WMDs

one argument that keeps popping up is that criminals will still get hold of illegal weapons, now my question is, where do they get the illegal weapons from? Do they steal them from people who own them legally or do they import them? I know that in Sweden most of the illegal firearms comes from the old russian states scattered across Europe since there's no abundance of legally owned weapons that's easily accessible. Stringent laws on storage and transport also reduces the number of legally owned weapons getting stolen around here but what's it like in the US?

[QUOTE=Hoffa1337;43401987]one argument that keeps popping up is that criminals will still get hold of illegal weapons, now my question is, where do they get the illegal weapons from? Do they steal them from people who own them legally or do they import them? I know that in Sweden most of the illegal firearms comes from the old russian states scattered across Europe since there's no abundance of legally owned weapons that's easily accessible. Stringent laws on storage and transport also reduces the number of legally owned weapons getting stolen around here but what's it like in the US?[/QUOTE] One million legal firearms go 'missing' every year in the USA. Illegal weapons is also a big export business to countries like Mexico where the majority of weapons there are made in the USA.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;43398825]if bonnie and clyde can do it, why can't bubba and cooter do it[/QUOTE] The image of three to four Rednecks driving around an Abrams tank with a Confederate Flag painted on front is an amazing thing. Actually, what am I talking about... We have that one "Haunted Tank" comic series about a Confederate Cavalryman ghost guarding tankers. [t]http://comicartcommunity.com/gallery/data/media/260/Haunted_Tank_3.jpg[/t]