Whites to become minority in Metro Vancouver by 2031 - Polidicks

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios] I'm pointing out differences between races as an empirical fact, I'm not making any kind of moral or prescriptive judgment. Why should it be banworthy to post something which may turn out to be empirically true or false?[/QUOTE] you're saying it shows that black people are just naturally not as intelligent as white people. it's very explicit racism...

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40121670]Right, and why can't we make objective measurement methods for something such as that?[/QUOTE] because there are too many variables to ever be able to account for and lots of "signs" (so to speak) of "intelligence" like common sense and knowledge and perceptiveness are subjective

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;40121616]uh yeh hugely strong. well done you hit the giant nail on the head[/QUOTE] What is this sociological explanation then? [editline]1st April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;40121710]because there are too many variables to ever be able to account for and lots of "signs" (so to speak) of "intelligence" like common sense and knowledge and perceptiveness are subjective[/QUOTE] But they're all highly correlated with each other anyway so

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40120857] However I don't find these explanations especially compelling to explain why Jews are 135 times more likely (did I do that right? I'm not sure whether you can do it with percentages like that. Anyways 27% of Nobel Laureates from 0.2% of the population is pretty big regardless of how you slice it) to end up winning the Nobel Prize. Jews have historically been marginalized so one would expect this to cancel out the positive effect of cultural knowledge somewhat - the proposed purely sociological mechanism by which Jews have risen to such academic prominence must be very strong indeed.[/QUOTE] it's like you're surprised lots of jews have won the nobel prize even though there are lots of sociological/statistical studies that relate to each other showing things like: jews tend to be middleclass or higher. middleclass or higher people go into better education. people from better education go on to even better education. then a tiny percent of them win nobel prizes you're looking at the percentage population of jews vs who wins the nobel prize but you're not considering the simple fact that the percentage population of jews who are upperclass is huge compared to other minorities, so of course they're more likely to be in course for winning the nobel prize than a latino person or any other ethnic minority and there's a bunch of other things i could go into like studies on different ethnic attitudes to power, parenthood, and education (of which jewish minorities come out high for things like pushing their kids hard, having a high emphasis on hard work, having a high emphasis on educational prowess, deferred gratification etc etc) [editline]1st April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40121714]What is this sociological explanation then?[/QUOTE] see above

[QUOTE=sp00ks;40121708]you're saying it shows that black people are just naturally not as intelligent as white people. it's very explicit racism...[/QUOTE] [url]http://lesswrong.com/lw/e95/the_noncentral_fallacy_the_worst_argument_in_the/[/url]

well, tell you what put 1,000 black people and 1,000 white people separated in two places, with each getting equal education, living condition, and etc. for couple generations if the IQ difference is still high, i'll agree with you until then [IMG]http://www.ditto.tv/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/charlie-brooker.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40121701]But IQ is one of the most useful and accurate predictors of anything and everything remotely linked to intelligence. Please do your research. [/QUOTE] lol no it's not. academia by and large abandoned IQ testing years ago for the exact reasons I mentioned [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40121701]Because I'm a scientist [/quote] no you're a guy on the internet linking to studies that you yourself admit you haven't closely read get real

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;40121695]who is smarter bill gates or neil degrasse tyson how do you measure that[/QUOTE] Comparing two individuals means nothing info wise, unless you're actually comparing the two individuals for info on them.

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;40121730]it's like you're surprised lots of jews have won the nobel prize even though there are lots of sociological/statistical studies that relate to each other showing things like: jews tend to be middleclass or higher. middleclass or higher people go into better education. people from better education go on to even better education. then a tiny percent of them win nobel prizes you're looking at the percentage population of jews vs who wins the nobel prize but you're not considering the simple fact that the percentage population of jews who are upperclass is huge compared to other minorities, so of course they're more likely to be in course for winning the nobel prize than a latino person or any other ethnic minority and there's a bunch of other things i could go into like studies on different ethnic attitudes to power, parenthood, and education (of which jewish minorities come out high for things like pushing their kids hard, having a high emphasis on hard work, having a high emphasis on educational prowess, deferred gratification etc etc)[/QUOTE] But intelligence also has a strong role to play in elevating people up the social ladder, and it is also substantially heritable. [editline]1st April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;40121757]lol no it's not. academia by and large abandoned IQ testing years ago for the exact reasons I mentioned[/quote] what absolute horseshit

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;40121710]because there are too many variables to ever be able to account for and lots of "signs" (so to speak) of "intelligence" like common sense and knowledge and perceptiveness are subjective[/QUOTE] And what do you suggest we do in order to measure human intelligence?

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40121766]But intelligence also has a strong role to play in elevating people up the social ladder, and it is also substantially heritable[/QUOTE] yeh but intelligence won't get you shit even if you inherited it from your (shockingly, if you're correct) intelligent black parents if you are a statistically average african american and live in a shit area and have no money and go to a shit school

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;40121755]well, tell you what put 1,000 black people and 1,000 white people separated in two places, with each getting equal education, living condition, and etc. for couple generations if the IQ difference is still high, i'll agree with you until then [IMG]http://www.ditto.tv/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/charlie-brooker.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study#Results[/url] (the sample size was low and there were a lot of confounding factors so I'll admit this particular one isn't that strong evidence. take it or leave it I guess)

IQ has been on the way out for years dude. I don't know why you're denying that.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40121786]And what do you suggest we do in order to measure human intelligence?[/QUOTE] I suggest we don't. I suggest we, instead, measure for individual variables like math skills and geographical knowledge and creative problem solving etc. without trying to shoehorn these things into a generalized "measure of intelligence" because attempting to condense all of these disparate axes of intelligence into a single number would render the resulting data meaningless.

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;40121797]yeh but intelligence won't get you shit even if you inherited it from your (shockingly, if you're correct) intelligent black parents if you are a statistically average african american and live in a shit area and have no money and go to a shit school[/QUOTE] But that isn't true. Being intelligent and going to a shit school and living in a shit area does actually significantly raise your chances of climbing the social ladder anyway. [img]http://i.imgur.com/0DxboG5.png[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/D30ITz5.png[/img] [editline]1st April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;40121920]I suggest we don't. I suggest we, instead, measure for individual variables like math skills and geographical knowledge and creative problem solving etc. without trying to shoehorn these things into a generalized "measure of intelligence" because attempting to condense all of these disparate axes of intelligence into a single number would render the resulting data meaningless.[/QUOTE] But we did try doing this and it turned out that the individual results were less useful than the aggregated [I]g[/I] factor for general predictions. [editline]1st April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;40121909]IQ has been on the way out for years dude. I don't know why you're denying that.[/QUOTE] Show me an actual source, because I can show you loads of recent, non-controversial studies that use IQ as a means of testing intelligence.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;40121920]I suggest we don't. I suggest we, instead, measure for individual variables like math skills and geographical knowledge and creative problem solving etc. without trying to shoehorn these things into a generalized "measure of intelligence" because attempting to condense all of these disparate axes of intelligence into a single number would render the resulting data meaningless.[/QUOTE] So, which psychometric researchers say this? Also remember that IQ is generally used for populations as opposed to individuals.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40122039]Also remember that IQ is generally used for populations as opposed to individuals.[/QUOTE] (well it is useful for individuals too but not as much)

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40121944] Show me an actual source, because I can show you loads of recent, non-controversial studies that use IQ as a means of testing intelligence.[/QUOTE] but not all intelligence can be defined by what an IQ test tests for there's more to it than that

[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;40114964]Canada's official languages are English and French. It's mandatory to take some sort of French class in school too, because Quebec Vancouver sucks to be honest, it's nothing but jewelry and clothing shops. We're starved for jobs here, and education is absurdly expensive. Pretty much just stagnating.[/QUOTE] I always hear that Vancouver and BC in general is a good place to live other than the high costs, i would definitely move their from Ontario if i got a good job offer there or something.

[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;40121368]How would you include mixed race results, though? What's your threshold for white/blackness? It's not as homogenous a group as either race (which aren't really that homogenous, but are more similar than not), so there really shouldn't be a "mixed race" statistic in there either.[/QUOTE] people what got moms and dads from different races i reckon that would handle the mixed race statistic

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;40122079]but not all intelligence can be defined by what an IQ test tests for there's more to it than that[/QUOTE] not really [editline]1st April 2013[/editline] there is more to it but IQ does a really good job of capturing what we mean by intelligence

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;40120857]surviving the black death [editline]1st April 2013[/editline] Actually the effect is still prominent when you control for socioeconomic status (and also level of education, and socioeconomic background (i.e. the SES of parents)). This is a really basic objection, do you think scientists haven't considered it? I've already responded to this, these sorts of studies often fail to replicate and suffer from significant publication bias. No it's actually one of the most well-researched and validated things ever produced in psychology. I would advise you to [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_factor_(psychometrics)]read up.[/url] It was the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Longitudinal_Surveys]National Youth Longitudinal Survey[/url] conducted by the US Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics. I picked this one because despite it being a bit dated, the sample size is gigantic. There are other similar, later studies which show pretty much the same thing. What do you mean I did consider the sociological explanations. I am aware of how Jews were forced into cognitively demanding jobs throughout history (in the banking industry etc.) and how the Jewish diaspora is rather closely knit which somewhat explains their prominence in the higher echelons of society. However I don't find these explanations especially compelling to explain why Jews are 135 times more likely (did I do that right? I'm not sure whether you can do it with percentages like that. Anyways 27% of Nobel Laureates from 0.2% of the population is pretty big regardless of how you slice it) to end up winning the Nobel Prize. Jews have historically been marginalized so one would expect this to cancel out the positive effect of cultural knowledge somewhat - the proposed purely sociological mechanism by which Jews have risen to such academic prominence must be very strong indeed. You can't say that "black people are discriminated against so they have lower IQs" and "jews are discriminated against so they have higher IQs". It's one or the other. Remember that some of the reasons postulated for a genetic cause of Ashkenazi intelligence are the strong selection pressures imposed on them by their historic marginalization into such professions, so I predict that the real explanation will turn out to be some kind of synthesis of the two. These are not mutually exclusive. In fact you can see both of these things in the graph I posted before. The variance within the two races is larger than the difference in the means of the two of them. Yeah, so? [img]http://i.imgur.com/lrwXDnZ.png[/img] I never said anything about national borders? I'm talking about the "Physical attributes between human beings originating from different areas differ because those areas have different climactic conditions and adaptation to those environments has occured over generations". I'm saying that in addition to those different physical attributes there are different psychological attributes.[/QUOTE] So basically, what you're saying is: [B]"I'll just dismiss all this scientific evidence that contradicts me arbitrarily because I really want to believe white people are intellectually superior to black people okay?"[/B] You're a sad human being, and you really, really ought to be ashamed.

are you telling me that groups that were systematically denied education for centuries and still dominate the lower socioeconomic groups do worse on arbitrary intelligence tests??? #woah #whoa

The study you've cited is flawed as shit, and you know it. It doesn't even take socioeconomic conditions and differences into account. What's wrong, DainBramage? Afraid they've got bigger dicks than you?

you know you guys can present articles and cite sources as rebuttals, instead of talking about cock size as a way to discredit dainbramagestudios I'm not sure how much cock size differs anyways.

[QUOTE=archangel125;40123064]The study you've cited is flawed as shit, and you know it. It doesn't even take socioeconomic conditions and differences into account. What's wrong, DainBramage? Afraid they've got bigger dicks than you?[/QUOTE] Perpetuating a racial stereotype that has, to my knowledge, not been proven doesn't really help you much.

[QUOTE=thisispain;40115763]what does that have to do with hip-hop? hip-hop is full of great role models. what's a better role-model than someone who uses music to overcome their situation? that's what hip-hop is. all the crime shit is a simple reality. you cant tell people in hip-hop to not reflect crime when its a reality for many people, not just black people. [/QUOTE] So you're telling me [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yFWQo_URwo]this song[/url] portrays the hardships of the average black person? I think not. I think rappers like Lil Wayne (NOTICE I DID NOT SAY ALL RAPPERS/HIP HOP ARTISTS) are scum who are extremely materialist.

DainBramage, my expertise in this field can be considered greater than your own. I'm majoring in psychology and social service work. I know well the chain of causality that can lead the results of your tests to be flawed, and I know better than you do the history of oppression, because it's required reading for my education. At this point, you're spouting drivel. You've been presented with plenty of scientific evidence and common-sense arguments that contradict your results, but it's clear that this racial difference in intelligence crap is something you truly want to believe. You're welcome to your beliefs, but to save face, at this point it'd probably be best for you to back out of this argument. You won't win it.

[QUOTE=Pantz76;40123142]So you're telling me [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yFWQo_URwo]this song[/url] portrays the hardships of the average black person? I think not. I think rappers like Lil Wayne (NOTICE I DID NOT SAY ALL RAPPERS/HIP HOP ARTISTS) are scum who are extremely materialist.[/QUOTE] OK? What's your point? I don't recall him specifically saying "Lil Wayne is a good role model."

[QUOTE=archangel125;40123032]So basically, what you're saying is: [B]"I'll just dismiss all this scientific evidence that contradicts me arbitrarily because I really want to believe white people are intellectually superior to black people okay?"[/B] You're a sad human being, and you really, really ought to be ashamed.[/QUOTE] What actual contrary scientific evidence has been posted in this thread that I have ignored? People have been posting vague, qualitative counterarguments and I've supplied citations, statistics and graphs at every turn. I've even conceded where a particular study is weak and that one should take it with a grain of salt, even though that would hurt my argument. And if I was motivated by some desire to make my own race look better, then why would I keep pointing out that east asians and Ashkenazi Jews have higher average IQs than whites? I'd like to see an actual answer to the stuff I posted rather than "you're ignoring everything". [editline]1st April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=archangel125;40123064]The study you've cited is flawed as shit, and you know it. It doesn't even take socioeconomic conditions and differences into account. What's wrong, DainBramage? Afraid they've got bigger dicks than you?[/QUOTE] [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1258072&p=40121164&viewfull=1#post40121164[/url] Here's the bit where it explains how it takes socioeconomic status into account. (also note the numerous graphs posted previously where socioeconomic status was held constant) Also ty for the ad hominem, yes I'm obviously posting this because I'm insecure about the size of my penis :downs: [editline]1st April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=archangel125;40123150]DainBramage, my expertise in this field can be considered greater than your own. I'm majoring in psychology and social service work. I know well the chain of causality that can lead the results of your tests to be flawed, and I know better than you do the history of oppression, because it's required reading for my education. At this point, you're spouting drivel. You've been presented with plenty of scientific evidence and common-sense arguments that contradict your results, but it's clear that this racial difference in intelligence crap is something you truly want to believe. You're welcome to your beliefs, but to save face, at this point it'd probably be best for you to back out of this argument. You won't win it.[/QUOTE] Instead of claiming to have superior knowledge why don't you attack the specific aspects of what I'm saying?