LSD and MDMA 'should be decriminalised' - Polidicks

[QUOTE=SCopE5000;36198337]Call it malfunction or not... both are the malfunction because they're both just stories. You're looking at life through rainbow-tinted spectacles until you realize that all the dialogue and drama is just that. It's like your unconsciously living in a real-time 3d render with no idea of the viewport, bones, sound effects, the 190 degree camera you're using, etc.[/QUOTE] I think that comparison wasn't geeky enough for me to understand.

[QUOTE=Killuah;36198196]But you are not exploring your mind. You are exploring the malfunction of your mind. .[/QUOTE] and?! what gives you the right to tell anybody they can't?

[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;36193796]The problem that most people don't seem to get is that both drugs are technically completely safe, but the things you will do while under their effects could endanger your life and potentially others lives. Notice how most alcohol-related deaths are from drunk-driving, not alcohol poisoning. If we found a way to enforce responsible use of these drugs that would be great.[/QUOTE] stop watching the news, nobody goes hysterical and drives a car/jumps off a bridge on acid

[QUOTE=Red scout?;36193788]When it comes to drugs. Just like everything in life, it needs to be done in moderation. Even if MDMA wont kill you, being tripping 24/7 isn't a good idea regardless.[/QUOTE] I hate how this is so obvious it'd be stupid to point it out - but no, there are actually people dumb enough that need to be told this.

The drug problem stems from the fact that, as Hunter S. Thompson stated, people take drugs for different reasons. While one person may be taking LSD to enrich their lives to astronomical heights, another may take it just to fuck up their head for the rest of their life. The biggest thing the government has to concern themselves with is not how to control the drugs, but how to inform the general public about the true nature of these substances. When my school tells me that people take LSD to distort their perceptions, experience increased heartrate, flashbacks, and impaired judgement, I'm going to wonder why people even take it. This can cause the uneducated to approached these substances without the proper insight needed. These are the people that end up harming themselves in the end. If you haven't read the wiki page for LSD, I really encourage you to check it out. LSD has been used in therapeutical settings in order to combat mental illness. It even has a 50% success rate for curing alcoholism, which is 40% higher than AA meetings. Why would the US government say that it has zero medicinal value? [QUOTE=SatansSin;36193365]I'm not sure if you've ever taken LSD before, but it is not 'very very' safe. If anything it'll scare you more so than any other movie, game, or person could. Not sure MDMA, I'm sure it's used for the same reason LSD is.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure if YOU'VE ever taken LSD before, but the only time I've been scared is when I've seen police cars driving near me. The only people that LSD would scare are the people who are unable to cope with their own thoughts, the people who ignore the thoughts they don't like. People who are in control with the way they think would be fine on this drug, but even then, thoughts of anxiety and paranoia could burst into one's mind at any time due to the fact that it's illegal. And MDMA? What? People use MDMA in order to have a better understanding with the people around you, as well as experiencing intense euphoria. When you take MDMA, you're able to read into everyone's intentions when they speak, there's a sense of closeness with complete strangers. I honestly think it's a great way to bring people together. And while it is neurotoxic, so is alcohol. So tell me, why is MDMA illegal? [QUOTE=Bobie;36193381]id be ok with them being securely sold in pharmacies and such, lsd is some pretty grimey shit tho[/QUOTE] LSD is the safest drug physiologically, the only serious damage it can do is intensify already existing mental disorders and induce depression. But if you're feel susceptible to either of these, you probably shouldn't be taking the drug in the first place. [QUOTE=Red scout?;36193788]When it comes to drugs. Just like everything in life, it needs to be done in moderation. Even if MDMA wont kill you, being tripping 24/7 isn't a good idea regardless.[/QUOTE] It's nearly impossible to trip 24/7 due to how fast LSD's tolerance builds. For every hit you take, you'll need to double your dose the next day. after a week, you'd be eating 128 tabs of acid just to get the a bit weaker effects than that one hit on Monday. That's why LSD's nearly impossible to build an addiction to.

[QUOTE=Killuah;36198364]I think that comparison wasn't geeky enough for me to understand.[/QUOTE] Alright.. We'll build a code analogy using variables to represent things you believe true about yourself. $location="Germany"; $isInsane=0; $alive=1; An event in your day-to-day life occurs and you go 'insane'. if (eventThatLeadsToInsanityArises) $isInsane=1; Now you believe without a shadow of a doubt you're insane, rather that seeing that (eventThatLeadsToInsanityArises) came about regardless of whatever control you think you had. Your idea of 'control' came about from too many years of the program running without stepping out and debugging or revising the code.. seeing it for what it was. Any illusion of control you had came about because within the variables, everything you believed to be true was stored, and you could read into your past (variables) to get an idea of how things were going to turn out. How many times have you expected something to happen and it hasn't happened? So why do the variables mean anything at all aside from the fact that we've given them language that we understand? If we really had control, why wouldn't we just set a $happy=1; to permanently loop? It's a hard nut to swallow, but control doesn't exist whilst the program is running, it just runs. It cannot be altered - and we are the victims as much as we stay in the program without realising that all it is, is a massive fucking joke. Someone is racist? Maybe their parents bashed the $racist=1; button too many times. Someone is 'psycho'? if (BulliedForYears) $psycho=1; Won a £100 scratchcard? if (WonScratchcard) $happy=1; $moneyInWallet=100; So yeah that's pretty much a nerdy analogy for reality. Events arise and they 'shape us', give us some illusion of control - yet we have become emotionally attached to the program that is running instead of realising that we're just there watching them unfold. We are the programmer sitting behind the screen who hit the 'go' button and sparked our idea of self into existence

PHP too much yes :P?

LSD sounds terrifying to me. MDMA is nice though.

What they really need to do is legalise Ibogaine and research that shit. It has proven anti-addiction properties.

I like how facepunch is the drug experts.

I will probably get dumbs for this, but fuck it. All the people for the decriminalization seem to think that people will approach drugs with intelligence and a solid thought process, rather than just grabbing a couple patches off of a supermarket shelf and starting to trip. Sure, the government should make people aware of the issues and side effects of taking certain drugs, but that won't stop people from abusing them. Just look at alcohol and cigarettes. People abuse the fuck out of both, even with the common knowledge that both of these substances are terrible for you and will make you die. What is to stop someone from abusing a legal, and very powerful, hallucinogen? I just see it as adding one more ingredient to an already full pot. On the topic of pot, shouldn't you people take one victory at a time? You are very slowly getting a safe and less powerful drug legalized. It is natural, can be used safely (easily) and is still getting slammed around the Government offices like no tomorrow. Trying to push for synthetic, potentially very very harmful drugs that can cause relapses, even when you haven't used them in a long time seems to me a very high-handed idea. Just my two cents. Take it or leave it, or better yet, explain to me how you are so sure that these drugs won't be abused, and it is a great idea to let idiots that can't spell "cat" get a hold of powerful hallucinogens.

[QUOTE=Eluveitie;36202906]What they really need to do is legalise Ibogaine and research that shit. It has proven anti-addiction properties.[/QUOTE] Ibogaine is legal here in UK, there are clinics that use it to combat heroin addictions. I'm tempted to fuck with Ibogaine myself to be honest

[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;36193796]The problem that most people don't seem to get is that both drugs are technically completely safe, but the things you will do while under their effects could endanger your life and potentially others lives. Notice how most alcohol-related deaths are from drunk-driving, not alcohol poisoning. If we found a way to enforce responsible use of these drugs that would be great.[/QUOTE] severely underrated post

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;36193379]Not sure about MDMA, that shit does not sound safe. At all.[/QUOTE] Very scary sounding acronym, unlike LASER

[QUOTE=Killuah;36198196]But you are not exploring your mind. You are exploring the malfunction of your mind. [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] My argument would be that it's pretty damn easy to OD on these drugs, even weed. Typical counterarguments would be "But so is it for alcohol" and my answer is "yes, yes indeed that's not a counterargument" On top of that the body is developed to deal with certain amounts of alcohol, I wouldn't say that for the synthetic drugs.[/QUOTE] wow. there are certainly drugs out there that you can easily overdose on, but you're daft if you think you can smoke too much pot, because you literally [I]cannot[/I] overdose on weed and speaking of weed, you know we have cannabinoid receptors in our brains, right ergo, their [I]only[/I] function is to detect the presence of cannabinoids and process them... HMMM there's other weird things out there too, like DMT, the comeup of which literally takes seconds - from a pharmocological standpoint this means that the body knows [I]exactly[/I] what to do with the chemical introduced to it... (some theories out there suggest that DMT is naturally synthesized by the body - go figure, one of the most illegal [and oddly enough, safest] drugs out there is made by the fucking human body) there's also some pretty convincing theories out there (IIRC) that argue psychedelics like LSD just make the subconscious part of the mind conscious, along with other drug-specific effects, so in effect, you [I]are[/I] exploring your mind if you go on the occasional trip and moderate that shit like you're supposed to now go do some more research before you talk out of your ass

[QUOTE=Upgrade123;36202734]LSD sounds terrifying to me. MDMA is nice though.[/QUOTE] Quite the opposite in fact, MDMA is still going through studies regarding long-term effects, and the days after taking MDMA can literally be the most depressing time of your life. I was tempted to edit this post because I assume Starlight15 got the wrong idea from it since he rated me Agree. LSD is still a wonderful drug, and MDMA is as well, just the effects should be noted before anyone fools around with either.

I'm not going to get into this for the 100th time on FP, so my bit will just be: Anyone who takes absolute stances on any drug is retarded. But as an aside, whenever someone says "<x> drug compound is completely free of negative side effects!" they usually have no fucking idea what they are talking about or have cherry picked information that supports what they want to believe. Should they be decriminalized? Certainly. Should their distribution be monitored and controlled? Certainly.

The problem with addicting drugs is that they're sold for such a high price that eventually, people run out of money and sell stuff to get more drugs.

[QUOTE=Furioso;36203648]wow. there are certainly drugs out there that you can easily overdose on, but you're daft if you think you can smoke too much pot, because you literally [I]cannot[/I] overdose on weed and speaking of weed, you know we have cannabinoid receptors in our brains, right ergo, their [I]only[/I] function is to detect the presence of cannabinoids and process them... HMMM there's other weird things out there too, like DMT, the comeup of which literally takes seconds - from a pharmocological standpoint this means that the body knows [I]exactly[/I] what to do with the chemical introduced to it... (some theories out there suggest that DMT is naturally synthesized by the body - go figure, one of the most illegal [and oddly enough, safest] drugs out there is made by the fucking human body) there's also some pretty convincing theories out there (IIRC) that argue psychedelics like LSD just make the subconscious part of the mind conscious, along with other drug-specific effects, so in effect, you [I]are[/I] exploring your mind if you go on the occasional trip and moderate that shit like you're supposed to now go do some more research before you talk out of your ass[/QUOTE] We have receptors for a bunch of shit, that in and of itself doesn't mean a fucking thing. Your body is FULL of androgen receptors designed for the express purpose of utilizing strong androgens like testosterone. This doesn't mean running supraphysiological doses of steroids year round won't have negative side effects. And yes, testosterone is a compound your body knows exactly what to do with as soon as it's introduced into your system. Can you not see how faulty your logic is there? Just because something is naturally synthesized in the body doesn't mean exogenous or supraphysiological doses don't carry the potential to be harmful.

The problem with legalizing many addictive substances (and yes I know that LSD isn't addictive, at least not physically, dunno about MDMA though) is that with a large enough amount of the population addicted, shit would go down. Imagine is coffee became impossible to get suddenly, people would get back to "normal" but there'd be a hell of a rough patch. Now imagine if instead of caffeine, the most popular drug in the world was cocaine, or heroin. What happens then when if becomes impossible to get? Chaos. I don't like the idea of having that kind of a high available on a whim anyway, I recall and experiment where some scientist rigged up some rats to a button which would basically make them orgasm when they hit the button. The rats died of starvation because they'd do nothing but hit the button all day. The benefit of having these things illegal is that it remains a fringe thing, expensive to get and comparatively rare to meet a full on addict. Granted that comes with a total lack of regulation.

[QUOTE=AK'z;36193704]I'm not against drinking either, but cocaine is something that could send a society out of control.[/QUOTE] The same argument was used during prohibition. People aren't all idiots.

Just a question. What's all of your definitions of "abusing" LSD? To be clear, I only wish to see these drugs for their true medicinal value. LSD can seriously help a lot of people in the most amazing ways, even the bible thumpers. To show some background, LSD has allowed me to be an incredibly open-minded individual. My entire process of thought has changed shape, I can see things so much more holistically than before. I've learned to enjoy life, as the fact that we are all sentient and able of thought, love, and creation is extraordinary. I've learned how powerful the human brain is, that mentally able to see, think, and experience amazing things. Before I learned these things, I was often depressed. I would often embrace my sadness, and I would become it. Since I've learned these things, I've not once questioned my existence. Not once asked myself when things will get better. Life is good all the time, and even times of sadness can be seen in positive lights. I believe that this drug can save the lives of many people who just don't see life worth living, if taken under the correct circumstances. [QUOTE=fenwick;36203182]severely underrated post[/QUOTE] LSD, nor MDMA should cause anyone to harm someone else. People who harm others on LSD are highly unstable. And while the drug did cause these delusions to intensify, it just shows that the delusions were there in the first place. I've had a few bad trips before, but not once was there a thought of self harm, or harm to others (Which is saying something, because once you're in a bad trip, you're thoughts race and you can contemplate ever one thoroughly). The only other thing you could acknowledge is driving under the influence, which they shouldn't be doing in the first place. [QUOTE=G-Guy;36204396]Quite the opposite in fact, MDMA is still going through studies regarding long-term effects, and the days after taking MDMA can literally be the most depressing time of your life.[/QUOTE] I was completely fine after I came down from MDMA, not even the comedown felt bad, to be honest. The comedown and the negative time following it are due to either: A, The MDMA was low quality, and B, it was an ecstasy tablet that contains MDMA, along with lord know what other drugs. I believe that people who take MDMA, and experience depression following its use are those who have taking the drug to escape their negative realities. Going from a bad place in reality, to an amazing place for a few hours while on MDMA, is going to leave you in an even worse place after the drug wears off. [QUOTE=joost1120;36205067]The problem with addicting drugs is that they're sold for such a high price that eventually, people run out of money and sell stuff to get more drugs.[/QUOTE] LSD is nearly impossible to become addicted to, see my point above. I've taken MDMA once, and have no plans to try it again. Not because I had a negative time, I had a blast on MDMA, I just see no point in using it again. I can definitely see people building an unhealthy addiction to MDMA's effects, but I doubt it would happen to anyone who is in a fairly positive mental state.

[QUOTE=joe588;36193514]well most of the common ones i agree. the obscure new drugs that are being developed, a lot of them are extremely potent as the molecules get more complex [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] all drugs are it's just the matter of how they should be distributed[/QUOTE] Meth is no good. Even with responsible use, it's not that easy to shake off that need for moar.

MDMA is amazing to take while at a party listening to music. Just gotta carry around a camelbak to make sure you don't get dehydrated. There are PLENTY of negatives to both drugs as I have tried both. A good 90% of these are caused by the fact that the drug is in fact, illegal. Not knowing what you are ingesting is one of the worst things you can do and often times it's the only option available when trying these kinds of things. You can get serotonin syndrome from doing too much MDMA over too quick a timespan. Should always wait at least 30-90 days before doing it again. And this can kill you LSD can cause people to have massive anxiety attacks simply from the come up. It can be a VERY intense and frightening moment to a person as what we perceive as life all the sudden changes based on what you are thinking. This can lead to a downward spiral rather quickly I could go on all day about this shit. Fascinating stuff that should be legalized and thoroughly studied. I wish to someday obtain DMT...

anyone against the legalization of drugs is a coward and a intrusive piece of shit. this is my body, this is my mind, this my life. i will do whatever i want with it and frankly that's all there is to it.

[QUOTE=Furioso;36203648]and speaking of weed, you know we have cannabinoid receptors in our brains, right ergo, their [I]only[/I] function is to detect the presence of cannabinoids and process them... HMMM[/QUOTE] This is false. These receptors weren't meant for cannabinoids, scientists simply observed that cannabinoids attached to these receptors and named them after cannabinoids. The receptors themselves do things that have nothing to do with cannabis.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;36205932]anyone against the legalization of drugs is a coward and a intrusive piece of shit. this is my body, this is my mind, this my life. i will do whatever i want with it and frankly that's all there is to it.[/QUOTE] Feel free to do what you want t your body, but I'm more concerned with what you might do to me when you're flying high on mushrooms and see me as a goddamn snickers.

[QUOTE=Milkdairy;36205867]Meth is no good. Even with responsible use, it's not that easy to shake off that need for moar.[/QUOTE] everything has a use. [url]http://www.rxlist.com/desoxyn-drug.htm[/url]

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;36206001]Feel free to do what you want t your body, but I'm more concerned with what you might do to me when you're flying high on mushrooms and see me as a goddamn snickers.[/QUOTE] last time i checked we punished people when they committed crimes, not because they might???

Here's my issue. Logically, I understand how harmless LSD, marijuana, and other such drugs are. Then there is this moral twinge of "well that just doesn't seem right." I can't understand it, honestly, and I think it boils down to my own concepts of the world and the people around me that I know, for instance, if my girlfriend took MDMA, she'd be extremely likely to have an awful trip and become depressive forever. At the same time, I know that everyone should have the ability to do what they want, as long as it doesn't hurt other people. In retrospect, I'm for legalization and control of harmless recreational drugs with low addiction rates. In hindsight, I think my stigma around drugs is centered more around, like was previously said, the drug abusers, rather than the drugs. People I know who flaunt their drug use like their proud of it, and shove it in your face constantly even when it isn't the time or place for it. Those people leave a bad taste in my mouth in reference to drugs. If someone does a trip with his buddies in their house, and goes to work sober, fine by me. Last thing I want is some kid high on LSD serving my burger at McDonald's.