• North Korean political prison camps growing
    66 replies, posted
Everyone saying that the US should go be the hero and liberate the people don't understand just how indoctrinated many NK citizens are. If the DPRK regime were to topple, it would firstly leave a power vacuum where any number of radical underground political movements could take power, but secondly could allow for reprisal from those who actually and truly see Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il as their leaders and deities. The videos from after Kim Il Sung's death showed thousands looking completely lost, even when they were offered consolation in that Kim Il Sung could live forever as the true leader. Imagine what it would be like if the entire regime were forcibly removed from outside (and largely disliked) forces.
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;29605787]One does not simply fly into North Korea.[/QUOTE] North Korea is so poor they're even running out of oxygen, so the air is too heavy for normal flight? [editline]4th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Mlisen14;29605871]Everyone saying that the US should go be the hero and liberate the people don't understand just how indoctrinated many NK citizens are. If the DPRK regime were to topple, it would firstly leave a power vacuum where any number of radical underground political movements could take power, but secondly could allow for reprisal from those who actually and truly see Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il as their leaders and deities. The videos from after Kim Il Sung's death showed thousands looking completely lost, even when they were offered consolation in that Kim Il Sung could live forever as the true leader. Imagine what it would be like if the entire regime were forcibly removed from outside (and largely disliked) forces.[/QUOTE] Not to mention the massive influx of refugees which would pour into China and South Korea. That's the sole reason China is propping up the DPRK. I wonder if they've started building the Great Wall of the Korean Peninsula yet.
Well there's the demilitarised zone between DPRK and RoK which has a wall on South Korea's side (despite how much they did to hide it behind a hill). I thought the Great Wall actually went along the border of North Korea?
[QUOTE=Contag;29605891]North Korea is so poor they're even running out of oxygen, so the air is too heavy for normal flight?[/QUOTE] Their AA guns may be old and cheap, but they still work, and there are a lot of them.
[QUOTE=Mlisen14;29605958]Well there's the demilitarised zone between DPRK and RoK which has a wall on South Korea's side (despite how much they did to hide it behind a hill). I thought the Great Wall actually went along the border of North Korea?[/QUOTE] The Great Wall of China does, but it's not exactly large enough to stop the millions of NK refugees. They're (very slowly) starting to economically cooperate with the RoK, I suppose economic interdependence is the way they're trying to mitigate tensions. It's working well enough for the PRC and the RoC.
Here's an example of what they have: the ZU-23. It's cheap, lightweight (for an AA gun), and it works. [img]http://pvo.guns.ru/images/zu23/ZU-23-2_finn.jpg[/img] You don't want to run into one of these while in a helicopter, trust me.
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;29606095]Here's an example of what they have: the ZU-23. It's cheap, lightweight (for an AA gun), and it works. [img_thumb]http://pvo.guns.ru/images/zu23/ZU-23-2_finn.jpg[/img_thumb] You don't want to run into one of these while in a helicopter, trust me.[/QUOTE] Even though AH-64s are claimed by the manufacturer to resist 23mm AA rounds, in practice capabilities often fall short of expectations. There was one occasion during the invasion of Iraq where a whole squadron (or battalion) of Apaches were damaged enough to abort their missions due to intense small arms fire. There's also the "air defense ambush" tactic that works even with outdated air defense weapons. The trick is to take them by surprise. I happen to have an old presentation uploaded you all can view [url=https://docs.google.com/present/edit?id=0AU6GppuET3sAZGM0ODdrc3hfMzY4cmg1NTZwZzQ&hl=en][b]here[/b][/url]. (Also, go to the view tap and open "show speaker notes".)
[QUOTE=Tac Error;29606212]Even though AH-64s are claimed by the manufacturer to resist 23mm AA rounds, in practice capabilities often fall short of expectations. There was one occasion during the invasion of Iraq where a whole squadron (or battalion) of Apaches were damaged enough to abort their missions due to intense small arms fire.[/QUOTE] Or like with the BFVs, where they used undersized warheads to test the armor and get the military to buy them. And then they got exploding and burning Bradleys.
[QUOTE=Mlisen14;29605871]Everyone saying that the US should go be the hero and liberate the people don't understand just how indoctrinated many NK citizens are. If the DPRK regime were to topple, it would firstly leave a power vacuum where any number of radical underground political movements could take power, but secondly could allow for reprisal from those who actually and truly see Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il as their leaders and deities. The videos from after Kim Il Sung's death showed thousands looking completely lost, even when they were offered consolation in that Kim Il Sung could live forever as the true leader. Imagine what it would be like if the entire regime were forcibly removed from outside (and largely disliked) forces.[/QUOTE] Seoul would get flattened by NK artillery and America would have to bomb hundreds of thousands of NK soldiers before they could attempt to control the land. Then we'd have another Iraq/Afghanistan on our hands. War is a ridiculous idea.
Political prisons? The fuck you think you are North Korea!?
[QUOTE=Explosions;29605689]Lol "send the attack helicopters in." NK is a fortress that will be tough to crack should it come to that.[/QUOTE] A fortress?! It's an underdeveloped, third world country. Most of it's military vehicles weapons are Cold War left overs from China and Russia. The US could have total air superiority in North Korea just like we had in Iraq during the Gulf War.
[QUOTE=cqbcat;29607471]The US could have total air superiority in North Korea just like we had in Iraq during the Gulf War.[/QUOTE] Control of the air does not necessarily translate to victory on the ground. That requires heavy ground forces and there's no sense in invading North Korea. [editline]4th May 2011[/editline] There are also several factors of the NK defense and the Korean terrain that makes the theater a totally different story from Iraq, but I'll leave it at that.
[QUOTE=Tac Error;29607547]Control of the air does not necessarily translate to victory on the ground. That requires heavy ground forces and there's no sense in invading North Korea.[/QUOTE] its a big part of it actually it almost impossible to win a war without air superiority, its not an uphill battle, its an upmountain battle but ya there is no sense in invading nk when they are gonna do our work for us pretty soon
[QUOTE=yawmwen;29607570]its a big part of it actually it almost impossible to win a war without air superiority, its not an uphill battle, its an upmountain battle but ya there is no sense in invading nk when they are gonna do our work for us pretty soon[/QUOTE] Read what I said. I did not say "Air superiority has no impact on the ground".
[QUOTE=Tac Error;29607578]Read what I said. I did not say "Air superiority has no impact on the ground".[/QUOTE] i was contributing to your post not debunking it, merely adding to it dont get mad bro
Oh yeah, a side that has lost air superiority can still gain successes. Remember Operation Allied Strike? The Serbs' efforts in riding out the NATO air war and successfully countering precision-guided weapons paid off. The Serbs did not surrender but negotiated a settlement via the European Union on terms better than those initially offered by NATO.
It's much likely that the China is the one who's going to "remove" the kim from best korea, I heavily doubt that they are just going to let west do some shady business right infront of their garden. [editline]4th May 2011[/editline] besides they have numerous times shown being rather disbleased with best korea's actions in the past
[QUOTE=demoguy08;29600638]Bin Laden is dead. Best Korea's turn. And not the entire country obviously. The regime. Kim and his krew needs to be removed and the entire country built up from the ground.[/QUOTE] If America fucks with North Korea, China will get pissed. We do NOT want that.
[QUOTE=Tac Error;29607617]Oh yeah, a side that has lost air superiority can still gain successes. Remember Operation Allied Strike? The Serbs' efforts in riding out the NATO air war and successfully countering precision-guided weapons paid off. The Serbs did not surrender but negotiated a settlement via the European Union on terms better than those initially offered by NATO.[/QUOTE] thats true, but thats an exception and why i said its like fighting up a mountain can it be done? yes is it easy? fuck no [QUOTE=Raiskauskone V2;29607623]It's much likely that the China is the one who's going to "remove" the kim from best korea, I heavily doubt that they are just going to let west do some shady business right infront of their garden. [editline]4th May 2011[/editline] besides they have numerous times shown being rather disbleased with best korea's actions in the past[/QUOTE] china has said they want to unite korea under seoul, but just not right away, they are talking within the next 50 years because they are worried about regional stability
[QUOTE=yawmwen;29607652]thats true, but thats an exception and why i said its like fighting up a mountain can it be done? yes is it easy? fuck no[/QUOTE] It's certainly very hard for forces that aren't "peer foes" of the US. For example, the former Soviet Union could've crippled NATO air power pretty quickly in the opening hours of a conventional war in West Germany. That's not to stay that North Korea could do the same, unless it decided to drop their entire load of NK-02 ballistic missiles on all South Korean and US airbases.
No one is going to do anything because there is a massive amount of artillery aimed at South Korea's capital of ten million people. And of course: [quote]having the fourth largest army in the world, at about [b]1,106,000 armed personnel[/b], with about 20% of men ages 17–54 in the regular armed forces.[7] Military service of up to 10 years is mandatory for most males. It also has a [b]reserve force comprising 8,200,000 personnel[/b]. It operates an enormous network of military facilities scattered around the country, a large weapons production basis, a dense air defense system, [b]the third largest chemical weapons stockpile in the world,[/b][8] and includes the world's largest Special Forces contingent (numbering 180,000 men).[9] [/quote] Stop talking so casually, war with North Korea would be incredibly devastating.
[QUOTE=Gaza Pen Pal;29607682]No one is going to do anything because there is a massive amount of artillery aimed at South Korea's capital of ten million people. And of course: Stop talking so casually, war with North Korea would be incredibly devastating.[/QUOTE] Well, the truth is in between the ten-feet tall "North Korean supermen" fears and claims that a 2nd Korean War would be a repeat of Operation Desert Storm.
[QUOTE=Tac Error;29607691]Well, the truth is in between the ten-feet tall "North Korean supermen" fears and claims that a 2nd Korean War would be a repeat of Operation Desert Storm.[/QUOTE] More like operation barbarossa, North Korea has evidently constructed massive underground military facilities and embloys their anti-air defences in well-chosen areas all over the mountains, they know their weaknesses and the strenghts of their enemies. You can see this from their new MBT based on T72. It's meant to use the mountain-area and use it's advances to full effect. No doubt the North Korea would lose without the aid of China, but it's going to be bitter, bloody battle that will last atleast 2-3 years.
[QUOTE=Raiskauskone V2;29607780]More like operation barbarossa, North Korea has evidently constructed massive underground military facilities and embloys their anti-air defences in well-chosen areas all over the mountains, they know their weaknesses and the strenghts of their enemies.[/quote] Well, I don't subscribe to the ten-feet tall North Koreans, *any* incursion into North Korea would be a very bloody affair indeed even if victory is achieved by the South. [quote]You can see this from their new MBT based on T72. It's meant to use the mountain-area and use it's advances to full effect.[/QUOTE] Recent sources say that it's based on the T-62, actually.
[QUOTE=Raiskauskone V2;29607780]More like operation barbarossa, North Korea has evidently constructed massive underground military facilities and embloys their anti-air defences in well-chosen areas all over the mountains, they know their weaknesses and the strenghts of their enemies. You can see this from their new MBT based on T72. It's meant to use the mountain-area and use it's advances to full effect. No doubt the North Korea would lose without the aid of China, but it's going to be bitter, bloody battle that will last atleast 2-3 years.[/QUOTE] Lose? Are you high?! Look at all this shit we have [img]http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4105/tank3b.jpg[/img] and look at the American tech [img]http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/tanks-light/t1/t1e2-01.jpg[/img]
While the rest of the modern world is stuck in Huxley's future, North Korea is stuck in Orwell's future.
Hopefully the US'll take out the current NK regieme after they blow Gadaffi to kingdom come with drone missiles. Also, NK isn't QUITE Orwell yet, as they don't have the telepathic "thought police". Hell, no-one's even invented true telepathy yet. If telepathy ever gets invented, the Reading should be illegal, and instead just use a Whisper-like technique, projecting instead of reading the mind.
It's as close as you'll get with todays technology.
[QUOTE=Kim_Jong_il;29607903]Lose? Are you high?! Look at all this shit we have [img_thumb]http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4105/tank3b.jpg[/img_thumb] and look at the American tech [img_thumb]http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/tanks-light/t1/t1e2-01.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] You haven't been funny for a looooong time.
[QUOTE=ironman17;29608617]Hopefully the US'll take out the current NK regieme after they blow Gadaffi to kingdom come with drone missiles.[/QUOTE] Drones show up in radar
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