Aliens might not be friendly, warns astronomer - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Gubbinz96;19843223]And they're fatal weakness is still good old fashioned country music? [i]Sign me up.[/i][/QUOTE] I thought it was Opera?

Well, there's always the chance of meeting hostile sentients when searching for the other races, just as much as there is meeting peaceful sentients (roughly, give or take a few percent). But it's a risk we have to take in order to get true conformation of our oldest question. If there are other starfaring races (which there likely are), they must've taken the same risk that we might soon take, when they first set out into the Wild Dark Yonder...

[quote]'why would you think it wouldn't be a bullshit theory'?[/quote] [quote]Because as a theory it has to have some basis to it. And it is with this basis I am disagreeing with.[/quote] [quote][b]wouldn't[/b][/quote] [quote][b][i][highlight]wouldn't[/highlight][/i][/b][/quote] Let's paraphrase, shall we? "[...]probably bullshit[...]" "What? Of course it's bullshit; it's a speculative theory with no scientific basis." "I can say something is wrong without knowing what a speculative theory is! (quote of definition) Notice the "if true", you can't criticize me for not thinking it as true." "(quoting)'probably bullshit' I wasn't talking about whether it was or wasn't bullshit (even though it is). I was saying 'dude, why would you ever put stock in it in the first place; it's a speculative theory with no scientific grounds'." "How is me calling something bullshit not a disagreement?" "(Wh-what...?) Whether it's bullshit or not is [b]not what I was talking about[/b]. I asked why you [b]would ever put stock in it in the first place; it is a speculative theory with no scientific grounds[/b]." "Theories have to be grounded in scientific theory; and I argue that it can't be a theory because it has no scientific grounds!(? I didn't get this one at all, this might be poorly paraphrased because it has no context that I can discern to my response.)" That's not what I asked. I asked why you would ever ignore your own requirements for a theory to be considered 'not bullshit'. My point was that you said it was 'probably' bullshit, and it's always 'bullshit' until proven otherwise (with evidence). I don't see where "probably" has room to fit into "always bullshit until proven otherwise" unless you approach new theories by first saying 'all science is probably bullshit'? I mean, a healthy suspension of belief to approach theories is a good thing; not ragging you on that. I'm just saying 'that was a really outlandish theory, why is there room for "probably" here'? [quote]The atmosphere is so dense that you could probably construct floating cities.[/quote] An atmosphere full of sulfur compounds, carbon-dioxide gas, relatively full exposure to cosmic radiation, and lightning [i]everywhere[/i], is not what I would casually say 'oh hey we can go live there' about. Now, if terraforming was involved in that thought process, then I suppose I could get behind that. Just as long as we're not talking about mass driving parts of the atmosphere off the planet, that is. Still; Venus does have a few good points for colonization once you get past how [i]inhospitable[/i] it is by default.

[QUOTE=Xplodzion;19841578]If they came to our planet and landed in a public place for all to see, you can bet they'll turn hostile after the united states military marches in and opens fire on them for no reason, it happens in all the movies. :smith:[/QUOTE] what if they land in Canada?

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;19839147]Logical conclusion to draw, really. If there is interstellar life out there, is it necessarily a good idea to loudly broadcast our position to local space? Why the the Europeans go to the New World? Need/desire for wealth and resources. What's the principal argument for expansion into space? Wealth and resources. What did we do to the people we found who were living on the wealth and resources we wanted? We brutally murdered almost all of them. What would aliens looking for natural resources do to a bunch of people occupying a world like Earth?[/QUOTE] I never knew top NASA scientists went on Facepunch.

[QUOTE=Best4bond;19839981]Oh no! Hopefully they look like this... [IMG]http://msp116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/moshitlikeitshot/mars_attacks.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] I fucking nostalgia'd hard.

[quote=Source]Scientists searching for alien life should get governments and the UN involved lest we unwittingly contact hostile extraterrestrials, a British astronomer has warned. [/quote] They want peace with aliens and they want the governments to represent us? I'd fire the deathray myself if I was one of them.

There is life out there. We probably won't see it in our life time. Remember we are just a minor planet orbiting an insignificant star in a small galaxy.

No shit, astronomer?

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;19843505]You didn't read his post at all did you? The atmosphere is so dense that you could probably construct floating cities.[/QUOTE] But people aren't microbes.

If the aliens ever come here, I'll befriend them. Then there won't be interplanetary war. :) Edit: Don't disagree, I'd be a great friend. :(

Astronomers aren't really the people we should be asking when it comes to how aliens would react to us. We should ask biologists, probably.

[QUOTE=erazor;19848927]Astronomers aren't really the people we should be asking when it comes to how aliens would react to us. We should ask biologists, probably.[/QUOTE] Psychologists would be more accurate Even though they'd be as clueless as the rest of us because we know [B]nothing[/B] about this alien species

I can imagine a reaction like that of the Krikkit people in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series. [quote=Wikiped]Long ago, the peaceful population of the planet of Krikkit, unaware of the rest of the Universe due to a dust cloud that surrounded its solar system, were surprised to find the wreckage of a spacecraft on their planet. Reverse engineering their own vessel, they explored past the dust cloud and saw the rest of the Universe, immediately taking a disliking to it and determining it must go. They built a fleet of ships and robots to attack the rest of the Universe in a brutal onslaught known as the Krikkit Wars, but were eventually defeated.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;19839147]Logical conclusion to draw, really. If there is interstellar life out there, is it necessarily a good idea to loudly broadcast our position to local space? Why the the Europeans go to the New World? Need/desire for wealth and resources. What's the principal argument for expansion into space? Wealth and resources. What did we do to the people we found who were living on the wealth and resources we wanted? We brutally murdered almost all of them. What would aliens looking for natural resources do to a bunch of people occupying a world like Earth?[/QUOTE] This is true, but both sides of this were human. Aliens would be brought up in a completely different evolutionary enviroment. They may not even feel the same feelings we do or have the same desires as us, so maybe a social contract to them may be more of a resource than a hostile annexation. [Quote]Though what you have described is the most likely scenerio, there is always the possibility that two species have taken completely different technological routes. For example: one race might have ship hulls that can repair themselves with nanobots and the other might have advanced shielding, and the materials for both of these might render the other species' weapons useless. That would be interesting to see. But yes, your situation is most likely: one race will stomp the shit out of the other one with little to no effort.[/quote] I would have to say this is untrue, easily put, Entropy. The more energy put in to maintain a state, the less energy needed to destroy that state. They have a ship with shields and little nano-bots-nice, but that means that these features require energy. Energy which can easily be interrupted or overpowered through fast moving highly charged particles AKA EMP. A nuclear device has the power to deploy radiological gamma/beta rays, as well as highly charged particles to severe any sort of technological device. Unless they have ships which use steam to operate, in that case we are fucked cause no one fucks with aliens with steam ships

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;19839147]Logical conclusion to draw, really. If there is interstellar life out there, is it necessarily a good idea to loudly broadcast our position to local space? Why the the Europeans go to the New World? Need/desire for wealth and resources. What's the principal argument for expansion into space? Wealth and resources. What did we do to the people we found who were living on the wealth and resources we wanted? We brutally murdered almost all of them. What would aliens looking for natural resources do to a bunch of people occupying a world like Earth?[/QUOTE] Greed and envy are part of human nature. But these aren't humans we're talking about. They may not even be able to feel certain emotions that we can, if at all.

If aliens do exist, I doubt this astronomer knows anything about them.

[QUOTE=Upgrade123;19849781]Greed and envy are part of human nature. But these aren't humans we're talking about. They may not even be able to feel certain emotions that we can, if at all.[/QUOTE] I don't think any space-faring civilization could have made it to their position without greed or envy.

I'm pretty sure Stephen Hawking already mentioned this some time ago. I'm all for an Isolationist Earth. :patriot:

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;19842537]If they have FTL travel abilities, we're better off than if they're limited to lightspeed, because there's a chance they aren't solely after our resources. Anyone heard of the concept of a light-speed bubble? The basic idea is that, much like has been demonstrated at various times in history on Earth, expansion into new areas is provoked by population pressures and resources shortages at home. Therefore, a spacefaring race would begin expanding outward from their solar system, in all directions, to alleviate population pressure in their home system. Now, historically, human population growth is about 2% per year, doubling every century. It's exponential. So, as time goes on and population continues doubling every century, the speed at which the front of that colonization wave must move to keep up with population growth keeps accelerating. Eventually, as the population doubles, and doubles, and doubles, that colonization front reaches it's limit: light speed. Once that happens, the population can't be exported to new systems fast enough, and they pack in tighter and tigher, consuming their resources faster and faster. Eventually, though shortage and famine and brutal war over dwindling resources, the bubble collapses and the civilization destroys itself, or suffers so much damage they can't realistically recover. Theoretically, our galaxy could have dozens of these light-speed bubbles, each a few hundred light-years wide, and we would have no clue as to their existence. One thing is certain, though: if the advancing front of colonization has reached a substantial fraction of light speed, population and resource pressures behind it have reached the point where nothing but utter and complete devistation would await anybody in their path. Hence, why FTL-equipped aliens have a better chance of simply being explorers, it means they've broken the light-speed bubble and not only explore faster than their colonization bubble moves, but have access to a much wider portion of the galaxy, and therefore resources. They could still be greedy and hostile, but a civilization desperately fleeing the pressures of overpopulation at .95c is almost guaranteed to not give a shit about some puny little pink primates inhabiting a ball of water and oxygen. Stephen Baxter's book Manifold: Space dives much deeper into this concept, but I've given the basics.[/QUOTE] This is stupid because it doesn't take into account declines in population. War, disease, famine, drought, crimes, etc. all decrease the population. Europe for the most part has a negative growth rate, but according to you, they should be colonizing the moon to escape the dangers of "overpopulation." You have to have two kids per couple to keep the population steady. If everyone had one kid, the population would dramatically decline.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;19839147]Logical conclusion to draw, really. If there is interstellar life out there, is it necessarily a good idea to loudly broadcast our position to local space? Why the the Europeans go to the New World? Need/desire for wealth and resources. What's the principal argument for expansion into space? Wealth and resources. What did we do to the people we found who were living on the wealth and resources we wanted? We brutally murdered almost all of them. What would aliens looking for natural resources do to a bunch of people occupying a world like Earth?[/QUOTE] Thats implying that Aliens are like humans.

Fermi paradox.

[img]http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2009/10/28/1256777626_7404/539w.jpg[/img]. Are we finally going to see them aliens?.

[QUOTE=farmatyr;19839088]Aliens [I]might not[/I] be friendly, guys![/QUOTE] [B] No shit.[/B]

[QUOTE=LeonS;19839987]I myself hope we get aliens like them in Mass Effect.[/QUOTE] [img]http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/6742/453929-hanar_super.jpg[/img] It's a big stupid jellyfish!

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;19842537]If they have FTL travel abilities, we're better off than if they're limited to lightspeed, because there's a chance they aren't solely after our resources. Anyone heard of the concept of a light-speed bubble? The basic idea is that, much like has been demonstrated at various times in history on Earth, expansion into new areas is provoked by population pressures and resources shortages at home. Therefore, a spacefaring race would begin expanding outward from their solar system, in all directions, to alleviate population pressure in their home system. Now, historically, human population growth is about 2% per year, doubling every century. It's exponential. So, as time goes on and population continues doubling every century, the speed at which the front of that colonization wave must move to keep up with population growth keeps accelerating. Eventually, as the population doubles, and doubles, and doubles, that colonization front reaches it's limit: light speed. Once that happens, the population can't be exported to new systems fast enough, and they pack in tighter and tigher, consuming their resources faster and faster. Eventually, though shortage and famine and brutal war over dwindling resources, the bubble collapses and the civilization destroys itself, or suffers so much damage they can't realistically recover. Theoretically, our galaxy could have dozens of these light-speed bubbles, each a few hundred light-years wide, and we would have no clue as to their existence. One thing is certain, though: if the advancing front of colonization has reached a substantial fraction of light speed, population and resource pressures behind it have reached the point where nothing but utter and complete devistation would await anybody in their path. Hence, why FTL-equipped aliens have a better chance of simply being explorers, it means they've broken the light-speed bubble and not only explore faster than their colonization bubble moves, but have access to a much wider portion of the galaxy, and therefore resources. They could still be greedy and hostile, but a civilization desperately fleeing the pressures of overpopulation at .95c is almost guaranteed to not give a shit about some puny little pink primates inhabiting a ball of water and oxygen. Stephen Baxter's book Manifold: Space dives much deeper into this concept, but I've given the basics.[/QUOTE] Hmm, interesting... that could be easily solved by essentially sterilising the species though and only letting select individuals breed (either through some lottery system, or letting individuals who accomplish great things breed). And I'm sure some idiot will go, "OH BUT THAT'S NOT FAIR!" It's either that, or become overpopulated and starve to death.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;19839147]Logical conclusion to draw, really. If there is interstellar life out there, is it necessarily a good idea to loudly broadcast our position to local space? Why the the Europeans go to the New World? Need/desire for wealth and resources. What's the principal argument for expansion into space? Wealth and resources. What did we do to the people we found who were living on the wealth and resources we wanted? We brutally murdered almost all of them. What would aliens looking for natural resources do to a bunch of people occupying a world like Earth?[/QUOTE] Well we won't know until they do something.

I bet they are stupider than us. Why do we assume that they are the smartest things in the planet?

Well yeah, if they are the same as humans, they will be hostile due to wanting more resources.

If they're like humans, we're basically screwed. Even if they're peaceful, some idiot will fuck it up and act hostile towards them and vice versa, possibly sparking a war.