Game Informer does an interview with an anonymous Valve employee on HL3 - Polidicks

[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;51659317]And if they're an industry leader raking in money, why is that a bad thing? It's not anti-consumer or unethical, people are buying those derivations because they like them.[/QUOTE] Except when it comes to HL3, apparently.

[QUOTE=Nautsabes;51659326]Except when it comes to HL3, apparently.[/QUOTE] Certainly not compared to CSGO and DOTA.

[QUOTE=Nautsabes;51659313]I've never heard that before. Could you share a source so that I may educate myself?[/QUOTE] Yeah I can't find it anymore, it was some correspondence with Marc Laidlaw or Doug Lombardi or something. Just disregard what I said until if I find it again.

[QUOTE=Jackald;51659329]It's impressive how salty you're getting about the merest suggestion that Episode 2 might not be so great.[/QUOTE] I'm not salty. But do you actually have a point to make because you already said you don't care In your initial post and now you seems to be just poking at me? I just find it boggling that half life 2 can be considered great but not great enough to build a sequel off of like valve suddenly forgot how to make an FPS or something. [editline]12th January 2017[/editline] Like, what advances in FPS since ep2 have there been that makes it essentially a new breed of shooter? That's the impression I'm getting.

People are saying they want the sequel to not be more of the same and they want it to be different, not that they don't want a sequel. Where there similarities between HL1 and 2 in terms of gameplay, especially shooting and movement mechanics? Yes. But there were also significant differences. HL2 also had a widely different story, more interesting level design (in my opinion), new enemies, new characters, vehicle sections, the Gravity Gun, etc. etc. People want an innovative and more unique sequel, rather than something that doesn't have a whole ton of differences besides a newer story and graphics.

That interview, even with a possibility of being untrue, really opens your eyes on just how the Valve's linear hierarchy really works. Assuming the entire interview is true: the flat hierarchy works really fine. At this point, Valve is an insanely independent combination of a developer and a publisher. At this point, they literally don't have to ask anyone for anything. Nothing matters to them - economic pressures, customers opinions, not even their competition. If they were actually a bunch of suits who wanted to shove their fingers up every investment, we'd have troubles - we'd have insane cash grabbing*, shitting out a game after a game, or not even bothering to experiment on a large scale - something Valve can afford to do, while other devs can't, since they need to make insane profits. Flat hierarchy makes valve's amount of employees impossible to compare to other devs. At this point, they can afford to make some project, bring it to high levels, maybe even an almost-finished state where it just takes a few touches and ideas to make it an actual product, and they can just scrap the entire thing if they think it doesn't actually work. It's amazing - the check to make sure they don't release terrible shit is their moral code and what they actually want to do, and what they're capable of doing. But on another hand, now that the flat-hierarchy, at this very point, is in full swing (I think Valve's actions were quite more focused, managed and organized back in the day), they really can't do projects that require a lot of effort, since they can just be completely removed overnight. Instead, they do things that might not require a lot of effort - making new maps, weapons, tweaking, bugfixing isn't as huge as making a new game. Another great thing that comes from the valve's state and the freedom of the devs is that they experiment a-bloody-lot. A lot of things that valve pioneered are now the norm, for better or worse - crates, anyone? The entire issue that makes all of us really, really angry when it comes to valve, is something completely unrelated to the flat hierarchy management. It's the fact that they opted in to a specific way of dealing with communicating with their consumers. That is, there isn't any communication. There are barely any official messages. There is plenty of unofficial ones, where single employees decide to spend their time and effort to interact with the community, but barely anything from the company, in the name of the company, itself. I'm not saying the interactions dont exist or are terrible - many years ago I asked Kleiner's voice actor, Harry Robins, to make a single voice line for a certain mod that was being made on FP. I got a response a year later - they were recording lines for a DOTA 2 character, and he and a valve employee decided to spend effort and time to get that line out (can't really get a VA to make lines in the voice of a character from a game since that'd violate some agreement-related stuff), and the line is amazing. It's just that there's so many stories as these, but almost none of Valve committing to a specific statement - unless there's fire between their legs. Valve needs to stop saying that they'll open up and start commnicating, and actually start doing so. It'd really change them for the better - even if things they say might destroy our dreams.

What this interview completely forgets is that Portal 1 and 2 lead to some serious ties with the HL Universe so the whole "nothing got done in the end" thing of the interview is kinda moot.

[url]http://combineoverwiki.net/wiki/References:Marc_Laidlaw_emails#On_Valve.27s_story-telling_process_and_Episode_Three[/url] I think I either misinterpreted it myself, or someone misinterpreted it for me. Unsure. So just ignore all that and just leave it at "I think a sequel for the sake of a sequel won't help things right now" unless they had something spectacular to show.

I'd really love to see some of Valves scrapped projects and ideas because i bet they were really cool but wouldnt work in practice.(F-Stop??) [editline]12th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Lolkork;51659357]I wonder what valve are making, my guess is left 4 dead 3 and/or some VR game. TF3 seems unlikely considering how saturated that subgenre is at the moment.[/QUOTE] They mentioned they had some cool VR game(s)/project in the works to announce later this year

[QUOTE=Nautsabes;51659347]I'm not salty. But do you actually have a point to make because you already said you don't care In your initial post and now you seems to be just poking at me? I just find it boggling that half life 2 can be considered great but not great enough to build a sequel off of like valve suddenly forgot how to make an FPS or something. [editline]12th January 2017[/editline] Like, what advances in FPS since ep2 have there been that makes it essentially a new breed of shooter? That's the impression I'm getting.[/QUOTE] We've had games like the metroid prime trilogy which aren't exactly shooters but focus on exploration and puzzle solving with combat that's more focused on movement. We've had more mobility in modern console shooters that half life 2 doesn't have. Not that these directions are perfect for half life, just some of the more interesting ways people have approached shooters. In my mind Half Life 2's biggest strength was it's atmosphere and world building. They can do something by the numbers and that would be totally fine but it would be more interesting to see them approach it from a new angle, even if the end result isn't very "half life". I think that's Valve's entire logic around it. They want an interesting game than just Half Life 2 all over again. And honestly? I agree, I don't want them to reinvent the wheel but I want them to at least do something a bit different.

[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;51659317] It's also how every videogame ever is produced, including all the bad ones. Remember the bad AAA games that came out? They were forced to make something without passion and rush to meet a deadline without QA or bugtesting? Remember him? [t]https://media0dk-a.akamaihd.net/82/76/e702fbec9c74a86807ebf27eebf92c81.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Not to defend Ubisoft too hard but I've heard that entire thing is bogus. [video=youtube;Rol6HJ1uVjs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rol6HJ1uVjs[/video]

[QUOTE=Nexosz;51659356]A lot of things that valve pioneered are now the norm, for better or worse - crates, anyone?[/QUOTE] Not quite. Those were around way before Half-Life. I think in their developer commentary for one of their games they even had a small discussion about how they didn't wanna be just another crates in hallways game but found it totally unavoidable.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51659378]Not quite. Those were around way before Half-Life. I think in their developer commentary for one of their games they even had a small discussion about how they didn't wanna be just another crates in hallways game but found it totally unavoidable.[/QUOTE] Oh, no, not these crates. I mean that kind of crates you open with a key. Or a drill, or just buy them to get randomized loot. It might be good for some people, it might be considered terrible for others. But in the end, it was an experiment done on a big game (TF2), and then mastered by Valve.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51659378]Not quite. Those were around way before Half-Life. I think in their developer commentary for one of their games they even had a small discussion about how they didn't wanna be just another crates in hallways game but found it totally unavoidable.[/QUOTE] He's talking about lootboxes. The plague on the industry that injects gambling into everything.

I think I am done waiting for or holding onto hope of a HL3, there just does not seem any point now. 12 Years ago we had HL2, if they are not able to settle on an ending to the story then they probably never will. The hype has built so much that it is probably killing the writers, imagine the pressure they are on to write a story that ends the series with as much impact as HL1 and 2 did.

[QUOTE=Nexosz;51659389]Oh, no, not these crates. I mean that kind of crates you open with a key. Or a drill, or just buy them to get randomized loot. It might be good for some people, it might be considered terrible for others. But in the end, it was an experiment done on a big game (TF2), and then mastered by Valve.[/QUOTE] I guess this shows how out-of-touch I am.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;51659393]He's talking about lootboxes. The plague on the industry that injects gambling into everything.[/QUOTE] On the one hand I can see why lootboxes are bad (because they are literally gambling and can introduce pay 2 win elements), on the other hand if they're cosmetic stuff that you don't necessarily need to pay for (like say in Overwatch), I don't really care and they don't impact the game for me. It's just that Valve's implementation in Team Fortress 2 and other companies' use of it that is shit.

At this point, I think it would be impossible for Valve to make a HL3 that would live up to expectations. This is not a game anymore, but rather a legend.

[QUOTE=Oizen;51659376]Not to defend Ubisoft too hard but I've heard that entire thing is bogus. [video=youtube;Rol6HJ1uVjs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rol6HJ1uVjs[/video][/QUOTE] Absolute this, but it was still overall a garbage port.

[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;51659317]And if they're an industry leader raking in money, why is that a bad thing? It's not anti-consumer or unethical, people are buying those derivations because they like them.[/QUOTE] I never said it's unprofitable or unethical, Valve makes money hand over fist and people love what they do produce. But they're not the studio that produced the Half-Life games anymore. Hell, they don't seem to be capable of producing a new IP anymore. They're a publisher that dabbles in sequels, tech demos, microtransactions, e-sports, VR, and a host of other side projects that will never result in a new AAA release of the type that made Valve successful in the first place. I'm not saying they're morally wrong for some reason, I'm saying the 'they haven't released HL3 because you can't rush genius' claim is nonsense. There is a deliberate business/management choice not to produce something like HL3 inherent to Valve's organizational structure and I have every confidence that they could produce a good Half-Life sequel if, and only if, they were being properly managed and directed to do so. [QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;51659317]It's also how every videogame ever is produced, including all the bad ones. Remember the bad AAA games that came out? They were forced to make something without passion and rush to meet a deadline without QA or bugtesting? Remember him?[/QUOTE] There is a [I]huge[/I] difference between 'shit out a sequel asap' and 'make a good sequel', [I]especially[/I] when you're Valve and consequently have more money than god and unlimited time to produce it. They produced HL2 under much tighter constraints than what I'm describing.

[QUOTE=Hoyticus;51659412]At this point, I think it would be impossible for Valve to make a HL3 that would live up to expectations. This is not a game anymore, but rather a legend.[/QUOTE] I'd almost say the standards were much harsher if they were to release it back alongside the previous games. They were way ahead of time, though not so much anymore.

I dunno what to think anymore. Everyone here agrees that the hype is dead, but say it elsewhere and you'll be crushed.

the least they could do is make raising the bar 2 and put all these concepts they've tried over the years in it

This article also explains why TF2 has been dry since MVM teleaesed. Not enough people want to work on it to pump out updates like they used too

What has valve even been working on besides little updates and the steam store. That's what I'm confused about. Like are these guys just sitting around constantly coming up with ideas that never come to fruition because no one is there to get them over the hump? I think the flat layout encourages ideas but not follow through. Sometimes you need someone there to say no, your not giving up, keep pushing and we know something will come from it.

[QUOTE=King of Limbs;51659475]What has valve even been working on besides little updates and the steam store. That's what I'm confused about. Like are these guys just sitting around constantly coming up with ideas that never come to fruition because no one is there to get them over the hump? I think the flat layout encourages ideas but not follow through. Sometimes you need someone there to say no, your not giving up, keep pushing and we know something will come from it.[/QUOTE] Making an entire engine.

[QUOTE=King of Limbs;51659475]What has valve even been working on besides little updates and the steam store. That's what I'm confused about. Like are these guys just sitting around constantly coming up with ideas that never come to fruition because no one is there to get them over the hump? I think the flat layout encourages ideas but not follow through. Sometimes you need someone there to say no, your not giving up, keep pushing and we know something will come from it.[/QUOTE] defense of the ancients 2

The more we hear about Source 2 the closer Half-Life 3 will be. They'll make it eventually.

All I want from Valve is Source 2, with full-blown modding support similar to GoldSrc and Source engine. Not to mention, I really hope that if Source 2 comes out, Facepunch Studios will actually have full access to the physics engine, and be able to add things to benefit optimization within an updated Garry's Mod.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51659481]Making an entire engine.[/QUOTE] What about the writers? Last time Valve released anything with a proper story was in 2011.