You know what would be a good deterent for crime? If we still hung people in the town square, which we should do. You guys just don't understand that some people do things so terrible the only crime is to allow them to be alive.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;35444733]You know what would be a good deterent for crime? If we still hung people in the town square, which we should do. [/QUOTE]
the fuck kind of place do you live in where there's a town square? didn't know 17th century colonial america had internet.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35444795]the fuck kind of place do you live in where there's a town square? didn't know 17th century colonial america had internet.[/QUOTE]
Well we have a town park so close enough. And I meant somewhere the general public could watch.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;35444843]Well we have a town park so close enough. And I meant somewhere the general public could watch.[/QUOTE]
you wanna execute people in the local park?
holy shit that's nuts.
i don't think people want to live in a place where they execute people on Sundays. somehow i don't think the tourist board will be able to inch around that.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;35444733]You guys just don't understand that some people do things so terrible the only crime is to allow them to be alive.[/QUOTE]
I understand that you may very well be deranged.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35443021]They should replace the death penalty with this:
The criminal goes into a room of about 20 people, who for about 10 minutes tell the criminal "We are so disappointed in you."
It's enough to deter any would-be criminal.[/QUOTE]
That happens to me every time I post in this board, yet I still do it.
[QUOTE=jgerm529;35444733]You know what would be a good deterent for crime? If we still hung people in the town square, which we should do. You guys just don't understand that some people do things so terrible the only crime is to allow them to be alive.[/QUOTE]
Crime rate during the time they did that was just as high if not higher. Not to mention they didn't have proper prisons. Unless you count dungeons.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35444865]you wanna execute people in the local park?
holy shit that's nuts.
i don't think people want to live in a place where they execute people on Sundays. somehow i don't think the tourist board will be able to inch around that.[/QUOTE]
ah touche
This might sound insane; but what if we left the choice to the ones receiving the punishment. They can choose to live the life sentence in jail and possibly suffer in the showers; or they can choose the death penalty to avoid the suffering of the sentence? That way we can allow them to live if they want to.
-meh
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;35442974]So why are you defending the use of the death penalty? Proportionate justice for a murderer is for him to be killed, so you're saying the use of it is justified.
There is NO place for that in a rehabilitative system.[/QUOTE]
so explain to me where i said "hey guys i am defending the use of the death penalty because of the modifying adjective i used!" i'm pretty sure you're just jumping the gun on this, hopscotch.
proportionate justice implies the punishment fits the crime
[QUOTE=jgerm529;35433502]I support the death penalty because to put it simply there are things that a human being can do that completely revokes their right to be alive and questions them truly being a person at all.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=jgerm529;35444733]You know what would be a good deterent for crime? If we still hung people in the town square, which we should do. You guys just don't understand that some people do things so terrible the only crime is to allow them to be alive.[/QUOTE]
Hey congrats you're that one guy that's always in a thread about the death penalty.
[QUOTE=Splarg!;35456150]Hey congrats you're that one guy that's always in a thread about the death penalty.[/QUOTE]
hoodoo would probably get this title too if I were actually certain he existed
[QUOTE=Cone;35443526]That's a matter of opinion. The fact is, rape and murder is caused by various mental disorders. Getting rid of these requires less money than just getting rid of the person afflicted by it, produces a fairly decent guy, leaves room for error in your system (you can't "fix" a lethal injection), and overall does not require you to decide who lives and dies (which would be what both your system and the criminal would have in common). It's simply a more efficient system, and those are cold facts right there.
You give rapists and murderers way too much credit, and quite frankly I'd almost feel offended if I were a psychiatrist. For one thing, most murders are commited in the heat of the moment, by regular people like you and me that just have far too short a temper. These people are just as smart as you, if not less so. Murders that actually are planned in advance are commited by quite obviously psychopathic individuals, and even if their insanity isn't very obvious, psychologists are specifically trained to recognize mental disorders and neutralize them. So unless your killer is a very smart, specially trained psychological analyst (which would require working with government authorites capable of recognizing mental instability for many years, which afaik is pretty much bound to result in noticing some disorder), they are not breaking out in this manner.
Also, even if it were possible in anything other than a theoretical sense, your solution would get many, many potentially productive people killed because a very small amount of them [I][B]might[/B][/I] try something and very likely won't suceed.
Again, matter of opinion, waste of money and resources, and actually quite hypocritical.[/QUOTE]
Murder and rape is not caused by mental disorders, where in the hell did you get that idea? People make choices, if someone makes a really fucking bad choice(murder, rape, ect.) that does not mean you are mentally screwed up.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;35457570]Murder and rape is not caused by mental disorders, where in the hell did you get that idea?[/QUOTE]
Okay, I'm aware that this is a pretty big bump for SH, but that is an incredibly silly statement.
You see, people like you and me do not like rape and murder (though in your case you seem perfectly fine with it as long as it's government-sactioned). So, obviously, there must be some difference between us and those who willingly abide and even commit such crimes. One or all of these differences are required for the act to even take place:
-[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopath"]A disregard for the rights of others[/URL]
-[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociopath"]A severe lack of empathy[/URL]
-[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadomasochism"]An enjoyment of the suffering of others[/URL]
As you can see, all of these things are mental disorders, meaning anybody who lacks these things is most likely suffering from them. I can provide some alternate sources if you don't like Wikipedia, but these are the generally accepted trademarks of their respective disorders.
Now, [I]even if[/I] almost the entirety of modern psychology is built upon lies (which, unless you know something several thousands of people don't, it isn't), it A) still costs fuck-tons of money, B) these undesirable character traits can still be rehabilitated, C) nobody is going to break out, and D) it doesn't rely upon a subjective matter of opinion, i.e. how not everybody's first reaction is shouting out "he doesn't deserve to live!!1!!"
So, really, further supporting the death penalty would, [I][B]at the least[/B][/I] undermine the amounts of money the government has. And that's ignoring all the evidence it's brought on by mental instability, the amoral and highly hypocritical ethics, and the evidence that deterrence doesn't work (as [URL="http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates#stateswithvwithout"]demonstrated[/URL] by the US states that don't have the death penalty).
now again I'm sorry to bump this
yeah i don't really buy the "we can rehabilitate them!" argument because i believe that some people are just shit - they didn't do it because mummy didn't love them, they didn't do it because they didn't get a job, they didn't do it because they're disabled, but they knew perfectly well what they were doing, why it's wrong and did it anyway. offer the opportunities for self-improvement, sure, but don't kid yourselves into thinking that everyone can be fixed.
that said, i in no way support the death penalty as a institutionalised method of punishment. when killing is wrong, it doesn't get any better if it's society doing it instead of the neo-nazi. hence, if the state has a choice between safely isolating someone away from society (i.e. prison) or executing them, the former should ALWAYS win out.
[QUOTE=Cone;35467292]So, obviously, there must be some difference between us and those who willingly abide and even commit such crimes. One or all of these differences are required for the act to even take place:
-[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopath"]A disregard for the rights of others[/URL]
-[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociopath"]A severe lack of empathy[/URL]
-[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadomasochism"]An enjoyment of the suffering of others[/URL][/QUOTE]
So you generalize an act, such as killing somebody, always as psychopathy because he "disregarded" somebody's right to life and lacked empathy for the victim, whoever the victim was to him?
Because.. for one thing, killing can be a sign of a strong(-minded) individual. Or a sign of bat-shit psychopathy, incredible stupidity or it can be a sign of an ultimate asshole.
And where do you think these mental disorders originate from? Perhaps from the mentally disturbing shit that people have witnessed from time to time? And if witnessed at younger age, it can make you mentally disordered for life, like.. uhh.. Dexter? Interesting topic though.
Even if the death penalty was enacted with 100 percent accuracy and innocent people were never executed ever the death penalty would still be morally unjustifiable because any organization of people, be it a lynch mob, an army, or a government should never have the power to end the life of anyone who does not have any reasonable potential for threatening anyone else's life (ie anyone who is in custody [ie anyone who has been arrested and is on trial for a death penalty applicable crime])
[QUOTE=Cone;35456196]hoodoo would probably get this title too if I were actually certain he existed[/QUOTE]
You called? :v:
I like Dan Malloy. His predecessor sucked, and in addition to this and a lot of work balancing the CT state budget, he's decriminalized weed and he's willing to consider medical marijuana!
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