[QUOTE=Adius Shadow;21584353]Well then maybe invest in a form of carrying accessory, perhaps a wallet? Then, place said wallet in pocket and there ya go! Your now among the majority of normal Americans who carry their wallet with them.
Don't want to carry a wallet you say? I'm sure it's not going to kill you to just bring a small credit card sized item in your back pocket.
Seriously it's not that hard stop making it sound like it's such a hassle.[/QUOTE]
I'm just pointing out flaws. It's just stupid that this gives the right to call out anyone who looks Mexican on "suspicion of illegality". Which I think is bullshit.
[QUOTE=Metanoia;21584378]so what if they can't prove that i'm an illegal immigrant, but they also can't prove that i'm a legal citizen
what about the right to remain silent
what if i just kinda stand there and say "Que?" if they ask for ID
if they send me to Mexico, then isn't that an illegal immigration into Mexico
oh boy, I'd have fun with this if I lived in AZ[/QUOTE]
Well considering in order to become a legal citizen you have to know basic english as well as other things...
[QUOTE=Metanoia;21584378]so what if they can't prove that i'm an illegal immigrant, but they also can't prove that i'm a legal citizen
what about the right to remain silent
what if i just kinda stand there and say "Que?" if they ask for ID
if they send me to Mexico, then isn't that an illegal immigration into Mexico
oh boy, I'd have fun with this if I lived in AZ[/QUOTE]
according to the law, you are required to state your name, but you can remain silent afterwards. also, it's pretty obvious, if you are not a legal citizen, then you are illegal. arizona's induction system for prisoners has to be one of the worst in the US, it's absolutely terrifying. JUST CARRY AN ID
[QUOTE=Adius Shadow;21584394]Well considering in order to become a legal citizen you have to know basic english as well as other things...[/QUOTE]
This is some dumb shit
I should be deported from my homeland if I exercise my right to remain silent, or refuse to speak English?
[QUOTE=Panda X;21584393]I'm just pointing out flaws. It's just stupid that this gives the right to call out anyone who looks Mexican on "suspicion of illegality". Which I think is bullshit.[/QUOTE]
I agree, racial profiling is wrong and extremely unconstitutional, and yes in some cases is going to be abused.
But for the majority of the time, it's going to be utilized properly to get the job done. You know what is wrong though? Breaking the law and entering our country illegally.
Believe me, there are FAR more illegal aliens in this country than legal ones.
[QUOTE=Panda X;21584393]I'm just pointing out flaws. It's just stupid that this gives the right to call out anyone who looks Mexican on "suspicion of illegality". Which I think is bullshit.[/QUOTE]
yes but that is all negated by the carrying of gov't issued ID. in any case, it's not like this law is making "suspicion" a new thing. cops charge after suspicious people anyways.
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21584410]according to the law, you are required to state your name, but you can remain silent afterwards. also, it's pretty obvious, if you are not a legal citizen, then you are illegal. arizona's induction system for prisoners has to be one of the worst in the US, it's absolutely terrifying. JUST CARRY AN ID[/QUOTE]
hahaha that would be even more fun.
"name?"
"Nicholas [I]Perez[/I]"
"id?"
"Que?"
honestly, if they enforce this aggressively, I will look for a reason to take a little road trip to AZ
[QUOTE=Metanoia;21584419]This is some dumb shit
I should be deported from my homeland if I exercise my right to remain silent, or refuse to speak English?[/QUOTE]
well english is our language, doesn't it seem right that you should be familiar with the united state's primary language in order to be a part of it?
[QUOTE=Metanoia;21584419]This is some dumb shit
I should be deported from my homeland if I exercise my right to remain silent, or refuse to speak English?[/QUOTE]
What are you honestly going to be incriminated for when you are being pulled over simply to prove your legality in this country, why would you excersise that right?
If you can't speak english than the officer is going to at least know a little bit of spanish.
"No se" (I don't know)
"No tengo" (I don't have)
Simple shit like this
[editline]03:38AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21584433]well english is our language, doesn't it seem right that you should be familiar with the united state's primary language in order to be a part of it?[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately English is actually not the official language here in the US.
However, if I went to any other country I would still learn how to speak their language.
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21584433]well english is our language, doesn't it seem right that you should be familiar with the united state's primary language in order to be a part of it?[/QUOTE]
He didn't say "can't speak english", he said "exercise my right to remain silent, or refuse to speak English".
english is required for citizenship. it is considered the primary language, but not the national language.
[QUOTE=Metanoia;21584432]hahaha that would be even more fun.
"name?"
"Nicholas [I]Perez[/I]"
"id?"
"Que?"
honestly, if they enforce this aggressively, I will look for a reason to take a little road trip to AZ[/QUOTE]
I'm sure it won't be enforced aggressively, there is far too much controversy over it as is..
[QUOTE=Adius Shadow;21584438]What are you honestly going to be incriminated for when you are being pulled over simply to prove your legality in this country, why would you excersise that right?
If you can't speak english than the officer is going to at least know a little bit of spanish.
"No se" (I don't know)
"No tengo" (I don't have)
Simple shit like this[/QUOTE]
My point is, I can remain within the law's requirements, and just fuck with them. I don't have to cooperate with their little investigation.
I would love for them to think I'm an illegal citizen and attempt to send me elsewhere. It would make the news & everyone in AZ would look stupid as hell, as they deserve.
There's no way they can enforce this without people fucking with them
[QUOTE=HubmaN;21584448]He didn't say "can't speak english", he says "exercise my right to remain silent, or refuse to speak English".[/QUOTE]
Can you speak english? Great, are you exercising your right to remain silent just because you want to be a smug asshole?
Perfect, have fun getting butt fucked in Tijuana.
Can't speak English? Hmmm, thats odd, surely being legal you should have at the very least a basic understanding of the English language.
[QUOTE=Adius Shadow;21584471]Can you speak english? Great, are you exercising your right to remain silent just because you want to be a smug asshole?
Perfect, have fun getting butt fucked in Tijuana.
Can't speak English? Hmmm, thats odd, surely being legal you should have at the very least a basic understanding of the English language.[/QUOTE]
And this is where your practical understanding of the law falls apart
the concept of sending someone to Tijuana because officers think he's a smug asshole = not practical. It would not work. It would not happen. So what would?
[QUOTE=Metanoia;21584481]And this is where your practical understanding of the law falls apart
the concept of sending someone to Tijuana because officers think he's a smug asshole = not practical. It would not work. It would not happen. So what would?[/QUOTE]
I was being sarcastic. Generally, most legal citizens also have this thing called fingerprints, if they are even one bit skeptical about it they could always resort to that, there are other ways as well.
[QUOTE=Adius Shadow;21584492]I was being sarcastic. Generally, most legal citizens also have this thing called fingerprints, if they are even one bit skeptical about it they could always resort to that, there are other ways as well.[/QUOTE]
haha god damn, this sounds like an even bigger fuckup than I'd originally envisioned
[I]"Hey Earl, let's look up the prints for ey'r one 'dem 'spaniard lookin' fellas."
"Why that's a great idear, Randy"[/I]
also, I'm sure there are legal citizens who do not have prints on record
[QUOTE=Metanoia;21584510]haha god damn, this sounds like an even bigger fuckup than I'd originally envisioned
[I]"Hey Earl, let's look up the prints for ey'r one 'dem 'spaniard lookin' fellas."
"Why that's a great idear, Randy"[/I][/QUOTE]
You seem to envision most forms of authority as being redneck hillbillies?
Okay
Anyways I'm done here, we are all entitled to our own opinions. I respect your side, and hopefully you all can see my understanding as well.
[QUOTE=Adius Shadow;21584518]You seem to envision most forms of authority as being redneck hillbillies?
Okay[/QUOTE]
It's a dialect. It doesn't mean you're a redneck hillbilly.
[QUOTE=Adius Shadow;21584518]You seem to envision most forms of authority as being redneck hillbillies?
Okay
Anyways I'm done here, we are all entitled to our own opinions. I respect your side, and hopefully you all can see my understanding as well.[/QUOTE]
I associate the crackdown itself with redneck hillbillies. The notion that illegal immigration can be reduced by stopping anyone who looks too Mexican - I associate that with redneck hillbillies.
If you're not a redneck hillbilly & you support this, then you're certainly doing everything you can to sink down to the level of that stereotype.
[editline]1[/editline]
I've spent enough time mocking this. Maybe it's time to get into the meat & bones of the whole thing and have a real intellectual discussion.
Here it is, Senate Bill 1070 - [url]http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf[/url]
I'm going to read it in full, then I can more realistic comments on it
[QUOTE=Panda X;21584164]I could make a joke, but that'd be too far.[/QUOTE]
Do it
Well, I read it, & it's still unclear how they should deal with people who don't provide information.
This is interesting though:
[Quote] A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON
IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED
ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES.
[/QUOTE]
Does that mean that an officer can arrest someone if they think they have probable cause to believe the person is an alien? hmm.
As far as verifying citizenship, all it says is
[Quote] B. IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF THIS SECTION, THE FINAL DETERMINATION OF AN
ALIEN'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE DETERMINED BY EITHER:
1. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER WHO IS AUTHORIZED BY THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT TO VERIFY OR ASCERTAIN AN ALIEN'S IMMIGRATION STATUS.
2. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY COMMUNICATING WITH THE UNITED
STATES IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT OR THE UNITED STATES BORDER
PROTECTION PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).
[/Quote]
8 USC 1373c basically just says that the INS needs to respond to inquiries from law enforcement to verify a person's immigration status. So either an authorized officer can verify immigration status, or the INS can.. that's great, but how? Especially if the person refuses to provide information
Still sounds like it's gonna be a pain in the ass to carry out
also, apparently caps lock makes the law more concrete
It's very simple--you have ID, you are fine. If you don't, oh well.
Now, America, instead of focusing on getting the illegals out of the country, why don't we [B][I]fucking help Mexico not be a third world country[/I][/B] so they don't have to leech off of us?
[QUOTE=TailsPrower;21584983]It's very simple--you have ID, you are fine. If you don't, oh well.
Now, America, instead of focusing on getting the illegals out of the country, why don't we [B][I]fucking help Mexico not be a third world country[/I][/B] so they don't have to leech off of us?[/QUOTE]
But it's not that simple
they can't deport you for not having ID
hell, if they can't verify your age, they can't even verify that you're old enough to have ID
[QUOTE=TailsPrower;21584983]It's very simple--you have ID, you are fine. If you don't, oh well.
Now, America, instead of focusing on getting the illegals out of the country, why don't we [B][I]fucking help Mexico not be a third world country[/I][/B] so they don't have to leech off of us?[/QUOTE]
i dunno, it guess it's not as fun cleaning up a desolate country as it is battling communism and shooting terrorists
[editline]11:56AM[/editline]
gov't will just say "not our problem" as they trudge around the world spreading democracy
[editline]11:57AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Metanoia;21584987]But it's not that simple
they can't deport you for not having ID
hell, if they can't verify your age, they can't even verify that you're old enough to have ID[/QUOTE]
they can arrest you for not having id. also, there is no age limit to having a state id. none. pretty much every post you have made has been redundant, stupid, or just plain not thought out well.
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21584997]
they can arrest you for not having id. also, there is no age limit to having a state id. none. pretty much every post you have made has been redundant, stupid, or just plain not thought out well.[/QUOTE]
what if you're on your way to get your first ID
if you can be arrested for not having ID , then why is there no law mandating that you get one at a certain time
what if you forgot your id
what if you were taking a shit and your id fell out of your pocket into the toilet and you accidentally flushed it
please, help me out here, I must reach your level of brilliance and legal knowledge
[QUOTE=Metanoia;21585022]what if you're on your way to get your first ID
if you can be arrested for not having ID , then why is there no law mandating that you get one at a certain time
please, help me out here, I must reach your level of brilliance and legal knowledge[/QUOTE]
same argument as driving to the insurance agency to get covered or to the dmv to get your plates renewed. you can't cover every base.
[editline]12:01PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Metanoia;21585022]what if you're on your way to get your first ID
if you can be arrested for not having ID , then why is there no law mandating that you get one at a certain time
what if you forgot your id
what if you were taking a shit and your id fell out of your pocket into the toilet and you accidentally flushed it
please, help me out here, I must reach your level of brilliance and legal knowledge[/QUOTE]
as i said, redundant. already discussed in thread, read please
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21585031]same argument as driving to the insurance agency to get covered or to the dmv to get your plates renewed. you can't cover every base.
[editline]12:01PM[/editline]
as i said, redundant. already discussed in thread, read please[/QUOTE]
haha so now people need license plates, in a sense
okay
so i guess, [i]tough shit[/i]
[editline]12:02PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Metanoia;21585036]haha so now people need license plates, in a sense
okay[/QUOTE]
so far you've covered my accusations of "redundant and stupid" in your last couple of posts
go for the last one
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21585038]so i guess, [i]tough shit[/i]
[editline]12:02PM[/editline]
so far you've covered my accusations of "redundant and stupid" in your last couple of posts
go for the last one[/QUOTE]
You can not be arrested for not producing ID
You can call me stupid all you want, but throwing around insulting adjectives is getting you nowhere & proving nothing.
You can be detained for not having ID.
There is a difference.
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