Virginia Supreme Court strikes down governor's executive order to restore voting rights to felons - Polidicks

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;50929743]Reguardless of where you stand on this issue it's more or less a problem of executive power and overreach. The law states that felons cannot vote, the governor cannot change that. He can pardon felons, but that's not done through executive orders. If he really wants this to work he would have to pardon each felon individually, which he could do although it would take a very long time. In my opinion he's just doing this to look good, rather then try and actually do something about it.[/QUOTE] i believe the 13,000 were pardons so obviously he put some substantial effort into it

[QUOTE=Sableye;50777658]welcome to the american south, where the system is out to getcha[/QUOTE] lolwot. Try the entire country, son.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50777756]IIRC it's not just the American South that has this policy. It's almost universal across the US.[/QUOTE] This isn't really true, Alabama, Florida, Iowa, Kentucky, Mississippi, Virginia are the only states where felons can't have their voting rights restored unless by governmental pardon.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;50778299]Yeah, when you decide to do the crime, you're in some way dragging down or hurting the society around you, and in some small way of depriving others of their right to live in an orderly society. Wheb you're negatively effecting the rights of others, you lose yours, in my book. It's like that in plenty of places here, so it's not some new, fringe idea. Like I said, once you're out, and clear of trouble for a while, I don't have a problem giving you back the rights you gave up.[/QUOTE] But not all crimes do that. Some crimes are 100% harmless. Here's a scenario I'm guilty of pretty much every winter morning...not a felony I'll grant, still, point stands. It's November 3rd. I work in distrobution and have a 5AM clock-in, so I'm out there at 4AM gettin' ready to leave. It's ten fucking degrees outside and my Crown Vic is slow to warm up. I go outside, kick it into life, then fuck off back in the house for 5 minutes or so to stay warm while it builds some heat. Hey, presto, I'm now a criminal! Yes yes yes it's just a ticket, but it's still a crime and yet not a crime that drags society down around me. If anything, committing it benefits society as I won't be shivering halfway to work thus won't be as likely to crash.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;50778549]They can't be trusted to take part in shaping society in their own view of how it should be if they've shown a complete disregard for the laws in place that they either don't agree with, or choose to ignore, or are ignorant of. You don't get both. If you're going to have a part in making the rules others live by, you damn sure better live by them yourself. If you decide to give up those rights when you decide to sell drugs, assault someone, robbing someone, etc., it shouldn't be a given that you get them back as soon as your out of prison and back into society. You need to prove that you're now capable of living amongst the rest of us law-abiding citizens now that you're out here with us, before you have any small say in how we'll be able to spend our lives in the future. You chose to do the crime, it's now on you to prove that you've learned from the experience. If people are desiring reform to rights restoration processes, I'm all for that. But giving them all back to people demonstrably untrustworthy? Not my thing. This is all ignoring that it is McAuliffe seeking votes and doing things he wasn't in power to do, anyway. Which isn't surprising, he's been a bery iffy governor so far.[/QUOTE] Why bother adhering to the laws and standards of a shithole society if you're denied the right to a say in it. Especially with how current ex-cons are stigmatised.

[QUOTE=TestECull;50930308]But not all crimes do that. Some crimes are 100% harmless. Here's a scenario I'm guilty of pretty much every winter morning...not a felony I'll grant, still, point stands. It's November 3rd. I work in distrobution and have a 5AM clock-in, so I'm out there at 4AM gettin' ready to leave. It's ten fucking degrees outside and my Crown Vic is slow to warm up. I go outside, kick it into life, then fuck off back in the house for 5 minutes or so to stay warm while it builds some heat. Hey, presto, I'm now a criminal! Yes yes yes it's just a ticket, but it's still a crime and yet not a crime that drags society down around me. If anything, committing it benefits society as I won't be shivering halfway to work thus won't be as likely to crash.[/QUOTE] You're comparing a parking ticket to a felony. They're incomparable. If you were committing a felony everyday you'd have a bigger problem.

[QUOTE=Sableye;50929923]i believe the 13,000 were pardons so obviously he put some substantial effort into it[/QUOTE] You are correct, that is actually good.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;50778018]If you do [B]something warranting felony charges[/B], I don't think you should be able to vote. You've demonstrated disregard for society around you in one way or another. Making it through your sentencr doesnt mean you're changed.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=evilweazel;50778299]Yeah, [B]when you decide to do the crime, you're in some way dragging down or hurting the society around you[/B], and in some small way of depriving others of their right to live in an orderly society. Wheb you're negatively effecting the rights of others, you lose yours, in my book. It's like that in plenty of places here, so it's not some new, fringe idea. Like I said, once you're out, and clear of trouble for a while, I don't have a problem giving you back the rights you gave up.[/QUOTE] Want to know what counts as a felony? Having a court hearing to have your name-change petition heard, and then, when asked by the judge if there is anything else they need to know about, you forget to mention a past minor conviction in another country because a) you were not advised by a lawyer that it would be relevant, and b) you think that convictions in other justice systems are irrelevant and were never advised otherwise by anyone. By pure good-intent erroneous judgement, you can accidentally lie to a judge, which is a felony no matter the intent. Happened to a friend of mine, he had just moved out to California to start his life away from his family properly and then was arrested on a cross-state warrant and had his computer and phone seized, spent two and a half months in jail, and had to move back in with his parents because he's now on probation for five years, completely destroying the plans he had for his job, place, and life out in Cali -- all because he didn't realize a fact would be important to mention to a judge. The prosecutor had a major boner for trying to nail him for everything he could think of, too. He can't even become an assistant manager at the job he's had since getting out, even though he's the single most dedicated, hard-working, and deserving guy on staff for the job -- corporate instantly nukes his applications as soon as they do the required background check. I've had to talk him out of suicidal thoughts more than once. But he's a felon so fuck him, right? Felony charges cover a broad range of things and not all of them represent dire immediate threats to society. It's insane to just blanket release them from the restrictions society has decided to place on them, but I think some degree of reconsideration needs to be made. Basically, this: [QUOTE=Mikenopa;50778038]Nowadays felonies are handed out like candy. Very trivial charges like telephone threats, underage drinking, writing bad checks, or even using a fake id. Most felons are charged for nonviolent crimes. The process to getting a felony expunged isn't simple either. It can take years and cost hundreds of dollars.[/QUOTE]

I mean even if it's a serious crime and they did a good bit of jail time for it I don't see why, when they get out, they shouldn't have the right to vote. You aren't going to help reform people and fold them back into society if you don't even let them engage in the most basic actions a citizen can conduct in a representative democracy.

"welcome back to society! you can't get a decent job or have any say in how this society is run, but you'll still have to pay taxes and obey the laws that other people voted for. you should be okay with this" Fuck that. If you do the time, you should have your rights restored.

[QUOTE=Kartoffel;50777803]Yup. In the good ole USA, if you get a felony you're basically screwed for life. Can't vote, can't (legally) get a gun, and your hiring prospects are significantly lower because not everyone wants to hire a convicted felon. It's pretty much nationwide to my knowledge.[/QUOTE] Sad fuckin' truth, man. Occasionally my IT Director contracts out an old friend of his from high school to do support work - poor guy was falsely convicted of domestic battery and has to wear an ankle bracelet for 5 years. Really nice guy, HE was the one getting the shit kicked out of him. The system has its flaws.

[QUOTE=Aetna;50932506]Sad fuckin' truth, man. Occasionally my IT Director contracts out an old friend of his from high school to do support work - poor guy was falsely convicted of domestic battery and has to wear an ankle bracelet for 5 years. Really nice guy, HE was the one getting the shit kicked out of him. The system has its flaws.[/QUOTE] Sounds like your director's buddy had a shit lawyer or is lying.. or both.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;50778279]Ok, I'll bite, I guess. Revolutionary soldiers under tyrannical rule are the same as people who willingly brole the law in this scenario.[/QUOTE]I see no difference between the conditions that were cause for overthrowing British rule and the current paradigm under which Americans may be rendered second-class citizens at a whim of the state. [B]If you do your time, you deserve your rights back.[/B]

[QUOTE=Kartoffel;50777803]can't (legally) get a gun[/QUOTE] And you shouldn't be able to, you've proven yourself to be irresponsible at best, and a threat to society at worst. [QUOTE=Mikenopa;50778038]trivial charges like telephone threats ... nonviolent crimes.[/QUOTE] no.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50936969]And you shouldn't be able to, you've proven yourself to be irresponsible at best, and a threat to society at worst. no.[/QUOTE] I work with a felon (whose charge was frankly really stupid) who came out of prison with nothing, picked himself up and now has a house, brand new truck and is about to regain custody of his children. Should this man be denied the right to defend himself, his property and now his kids? The short answer is no; the long answer is fuck no because that's dumb as hell.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50777756]IIRC it's not just the American South that has this policy. It's almost universal across the US.[/QUOTE] depends on your scope. you would be correct in your assertion if you are referring to current felony prisoners. however if you're referring to people who have finished their sentence, it gets a bit muddier from there. approximately 20 (incl. DC) restore voting rights after release and completion of parole. 22 require completion of parole and probation (much, much longer). 10 are dependent on the type of felony and/or require individual application to the state for restoration. Virginia is in that final category, along with FL, IA, KY, AL, MS, TN, WY, DE & NV.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50936490]I see no difference between the conditions that were cause for overthrowing British rule and the current paradigm under which Americans may be rendered second-class citizens at a whim of the state. [B]If you do your time, you deserve your rights back.[/B][/QUOTE] I really argue that you don't deserve to have your voting rights stripped from you to begin with but i can at least understand why they do it in prison. Perminent disenfranchisement though has real purpose though, i mean i certainly can't think of any reasonable explanation for it other than lots of minorities in red states tend to get swept up under such laws if you trace these laws you'll find theyre mostly partisan today with changing legislatures changing the laws to reflect their main party's beliefs [quote]In Iowa in July 2005, Democratic Governor Tom Vilsack issued an executive order restoring the right to vote for all persons who had completed supervision.[13] On October 31, 2005, Iowa's Supreme Court upheld mass re-enfranchisement of convicted felons. But, on his inauguration day, January 14, 2011, Republican Governor Terry Branstad reversed Vilsack's executive order, disenfranchising thousands of people.[16][/quote]

[QUOTE=Sableye;50937953]I really argue that you don't deserve to have your voting rights stripped from you to begin with but i can at least understand why they do it in prison. Perminent disenfranchisement though has real purpose though, i mean i certainly can't think of any reasonable explanation for it other than lots of minorities in red states tend to get swept up under such laws if you trace these laws you'll find theyre mostly partisan today with changing legislatures changing the laws to reflect their main party's beliefs[/QUOTE]Pretty much, but I think it goes a hell of a lot deeper than that. Top to bottom our criminal justice system is a broken pile of shit, a lot of it is interlaced with Jim Crow-era laws that eked on by and the other half is all sorts of War on Drugs!(tm) shit that is really just Jim Crow 2.0 in a lot of ways. I say "war on drugs" because it's that mentality, that mindset that we're at war with a problem in ourselves, that taints other parts of the criminal justice system and produces injustices. That moralistic bullshit that caused all of this has ironically made us apathetic toward human life, the war on drugs, gun control, attacks on privacy, systemic racism and discrimination, all of it comes from the same fucking rot in our society that nobody wants to touch. Our biggest problem is the radical Christian soccer mom who demands action, rights be damned, because that mentality of "well we have to do ~something~ to protect my ___" is those good intentions that pave our road to hell. We're at the gates right now, look around, the moral police have put us here in this place where human life is a cheap thing and by extension our human rights are equally as cheap.