Malaysian passenger airliner shot down over Ukraine near Russian border
1,595 replies, posted
[QUOTE=jason3232;45425674]Do you know what Pravda is?[/QUOTE]
"Pravda" is the Russian and Ukrainian word for "truth"
Holly shit, both sides confirm thing, FP peeps still deny it. Amazing.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45425686]Here is extent from [b]RT's report[/b][/QUOTE]
You did not translate the article I was referring to, and didn't give a link to the other RT article you're referring to.
Also, how can the Prosecutor determine that information? That position sounds like a judicial position, not an intelligence one.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;45425696]"Pravda" is the Russian and Ukrainian word for "truth"[/QUOTE]
I know, I just wouldn't simply believe such a source without any other evidences to support it.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45425698]Holly shit, both sides confirm thing, FP peeps still deny it. Amazing.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;45420123]First they say it was a great Elf in shining armor, then they say it's some sort of small dwarf-man, then they say it was a pack of rebel Uruk-Hai, or maybe it's all the lot put together.[/QUOTE]
Until they sort it out in terms that spell out the whole truth, I'm still waiting.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45425686]Here is extent from RT's report
06:00 GMT:
The militias fighting in eastern Ukraine against the government troops have no weapons systems that could have shot down the Malaysia Airlines plane on Thursday, the General Prosecutor of Ukraine, Vitaly Yaryoma, stated citing a military report submitted to President Petro Poroshenko.
[editline]18th July 2014[/editline]
Soo even if ukrainian goverment now admits that there is no buks for rebels you still going to believe your truth based on few tweets because you really want it?[/QUOTE]
Both sources you gave are not really reliable, with no evidences that support their claim that came out of no where.
How can we believe it?
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45425665]Excuse me, it's UKRANINAN SOURCE?!
Here have [B]OFFICIAL[/B] Ukraine source ffs
[url]http://www.mil.gov.ua/news/2014/06/30/teroristi-ne-zahoplyuvali-bojovu-tehniku-chastin-protipovitryanoi-oboroni-zbrojnih-sil-ukraini-v-doneczku/[/url][/QUOTE]
That is from June 30, 2014
[QUOTE=40kplayer;45425704]You did not translate the article I was referring to, and didn't give a link to the other RT article you're referring to.
Also, how can the Prosecutor determine that information? That position sounds like a judicial position, not an intelligence one.[/QUOTE] Ok, sorry,
here's an article from RT
[url]http://rt.com/news/173628-malaysian-plane-crash-ukraine/[/url]
And here is my translation from article
Terrorists did not seized military equipment of air defense Armed Forces of Ukraine in Donetsk.
Ukranian military reported to the President Peter Poroshenko after downing aircraft over the Donetsk region, as told the Ukrainian Prosecutor General Vitaly Yarema truth.
"After plane was down, the military reported to the President that the terrorists do not have our missile systems" Buk "and C300. There was no systems stolen" - said in comments Yarema to Ukrainian truth after NSDC.
First Defense Ministry refuted information released citing unofficial sources about the alleged capture of terrorists anti-aircraft missiles defense parts of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Donetsk region.
"Press and Information Office of the Ministry of Defence announced that on June 29 at the decision of the commander of the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and military machinery of antiaircraft missile regiment in Donetsk were quickly relocated to a certain place. On the territory of the military base was only an old and unusable automotive electronics, that can no be used. eventually terrorists entered the territory of the base "- said in a statement the Ministry of Defense.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;45425541][IMG]http://puu.sh/agp7c/89807eed4a.jpg[/IMG]
Is it just me or is this just disgraceful? Showing one of the victims just to gain a new likes and web views to get more fucking money. This is what I'm talking about when I say media circus or carnival.
[editline]18th July 2014[/editline]
If I had someone in my family who was killed and used by news networks as their poster victim, I would be offended and outraged[/QUOTE]
Welcome to network news. Try watching an evening news show with a critical eye and see if you can stand the full half-hour. Or, if you ever find yourself in America, try watching NBC's today show, and see if you can stand that for five minutes.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45425734]Ok, sorry,
here's an article from RT
[url]http://rt.com/news/173628-malaysian-plane-crash-ukraine/[/url]
And here is my translation from article
Terrorists did not seized military equipment of air defense Armed Forces of Ukraine in Donetsk.
Ukranian military reported to the President Peter Poroshenko after downing aircraft over the Donetsk region, as told the Ukrainian Prosecutor General Vitaly Yarema truth.
"After plane was down, the military reported to the President that the terrorists do not have our missile systems" Buk "and C300. There was no systems stolen" - said in comments Yarema to Ukrainian truth after NSDC.
First Defense Ministry refuted information released citing unofficial sources about the alleged capture of terrorists anti-aircraft missiles defense parts of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Donetsk region.
"Press and Information Office of the Ministry of Defence announced that on June 29 at the decision of the commander of the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and military machinery of antiaircraft missile regiment in Donetsk were quickly relocated to a certain place. On the territory of the military base was only an old and unusable automotive electronics, that can no be used. eventually terrorists entered the territory of the base "- said in a statement the Ministry of Defense.[/QUOTE]
RT is Russia-based, so it's gonna be biased.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;45425724]That is from June 30, 2014[/QUOTE]
Here, google chrome tried to translate it for me.
[quote]
Yesterday, June 29, in the media, citing unofficial sources have information about the alleged capture of terrorists air defense air defense units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Donetsk region.
Office of Press and Information of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine reported that the June 29 decision of the Commander of the Air Forces of Ukraine and military equipment Artillery Regiment in Donetsk were promptly relocated in a particular place. On the territory of the military unit management remained only old and useless military technique that further military out of action. Subsequently, the terrorists have come into the territory of the.
All armored units Air Defence Armed Forces of Ukraine are defined areas and are alert to protect the air sovereignty.
[/quote]
Unofficial reports of stolen air defense equipment by terrorist group near Donetsk.
And then the article screws up there, but it's unclear if it really was.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45425734]Ok, sorry,
here's an article from RT
[url]http://rt.com/news/173628-malaysian-plane-crash-ukraine/[/url]
And here is my translation from article
Terrorists did not seized military equipment of air defense Armed Forces of Ukraine in Donetsk.
Ukranian military reported to the President Peter Poroshenko after downing aircraft over the Donetsk region, as told the Ukrainian Prosecutor General Vitaly Yarema truth.
"After plane was down, the military reported to the President that the terrorists do not have our missile systems" Buk "and C300. There was no systems stolen" - said in comments Yarema to Ukrainian truth after NSDC.
First Defense Ministry refuted information released citing unofficial sources about the alleged capture of terrorists anti-aircraft missiles defense parts of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Donetsk region.
"Press and Information Office of the Ministry of Defence announced that on June 29 at the decision of the commander of the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and military machinery of antiaircraft missile regiment in Donetsk were quickly relocated to a certain place. On the territory of the military base was only an old and unusable automotive electronics, that can no be used. eventually terrorists entered the territory of the base "- said in a statement the Ministry of Defense.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-downsowned.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=40kplayer;45425743]Here, google chrome tried to translate it for me.
Unofficial reports of stolen air defense equipment by terrorist group near Donetsk.
And then the article screws up there, but it's unclear if it really was.[/QUOTE]
Check your google translator first.
[editline]18th July 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=jason3232;45425740]RT is Russia-based, so it's gonna be biased.[/QUOTE]
I was translating other article and just reffering to RT article he wanted![B] GAWD[/B]
Here! Here the damn article!
[url]http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2014/07/18/7032278/?attempt=2[/url]
Okay, so we've got conflicting unofficial information on both sides, but those photos and tweets by the rebels did show them having a Buk system.
[url]http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2014/07/18/7032278/[/url] Ukrainian version of article jsut in case. And wait till it get referred by news media.
[editline]18th July 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=40kplayer;45425775]Okay, so we've got conflicting unofficial information on both sides, but those photos and tweets by the rebels did show them having a Buk system.[/QUOTE]
How is that [B]CONFLICTING?[/B] Yarema just admitted that rebels do not have c300 or Buk! I'd say it's quite no conflicting with what Rebels said themselfs!
Also i just Love FPeers policy over "source, not source" thing. If wall of text posted without links or anything but fits wanted theory it's OFFICIAL and no live videos or photos can disproove it, if article is against then all of sudden "omg, unreliable, propaganda"
I also find the confiscated black box suspicious. Why did the separatist take it in the first place? I find it believable that they arrived to search the wreckage for survivors or to confirm what happened, but locating and absconding with the black box implies some form of desire to not have it found. I don't believe it would even help much, the pilots most likely did not know what happened beforehand.
And what's the talk of Russia wanting the black box? Why would they be allowed to handle it in any way? The Netherlands and Malaysia are the only countries that should be possessing it, and even then it would be handed over normally to whichever investigation team was deemed first, as the US' team, international team, and Malaysian Airline team have already been reported to be investigating.
[editline]18th July 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45425779]How is that [B]CONFLICTING?[/B] Yarema just admitted that rebels do not have c300 or Buk! I'd say it's quite no conflicting with what Rebels said themselfs![/QUOTE]
I mean we have conflicting reports from YOUR sources in comparison to OUR sources. Your reports are in agreement with themselves, and our reports are in agreement with themselves, but they both say different information.
[QUOTE=40kplayer;45425811]I also find the confiscated black box suspicious. Why did the separatist take it in the first place? I find it believable that they arrived to search the wreckage for survivors or to confirm what happened, but locating and absconding with the black box implies some form of desire to not have it found. I don't believe it would even help much, the pilots most likely did not know what happened beforehand.
And what's the talk of Russia wanting the black box? Why would they be allowed to handle it in any way? The Netherlands and Malaysia are the only countries that should be possessing it, and even then it would be handed over normally to whichever investigation team was deemed first, as the US' team, international team, and Malaysian Airline team have already been reported to be investigating.
[editline]18th July 2014[/editline]
I mean we have conflicting reports from YOUR sources in comparison to OUR sources. Your reports are in agreement with themselves, and our reports are in agreement with themselves, but they both say different information.[/QUOTE]
This is Russia you're talking about, of course they're going to want to interfere with the investigation.
[QUOTE=40kplayer;45425811]I also find the confiscated black box suspicious. Why did the separatist take it in the first place? I find it believable that they arrived to search the wreckage for survivors or to confirm what happened, but locating and absconding with the black box implies some form of desire to not have it found. I don't believe it would even help much, the pilots most likely did not know what happened beforehand.
And what's the talk of Russia wanting the black box? Why would they be allowed to handle it in any way? The Netherlands and Malaysia are the only countries that should be possessing it, and even then it would be handed over normally to whichever investigation team was deemed first, as the US' team, international team, and Malaysian Airline team have already been reported to be investigating.
[editline]18th July 2014[/editline]
I mean we have conflicting reports from YOUR sources in comparison to OUR sources. Your reports are in agreement with themselves, and our reports are in agreement with themselves, but they both say different information.[/QUOTE]
They took black box to be deliver to russia since they can't simply pass it to Ukraninan military, since, you know, [B]THEY SHOOT AT EACH OTHER
[/B] soo they try to pass it outside zone of conflict and nearest country to that, you guessed, is Russia.
I mean, seriously, do you expect a special ceremony of passing black box to representatives out of warzone? Expecially when rebels aswell afraid of biased investigation.
Well, you know that you have [B][I]fucked up[/I][/B] when you shoot down a civilian plane full of children and AIDS researchers. It bad for PR, since there is just no way of defending it. Whoever did this (likely by mistake), is going to going face a lot of shit from the countries whose citizens got killed.
So far it still looks like the rebels. The plane was shot down over their territory. They had the equipment to do it, and have been known to shoot down planes and other aircraft in the past. They even were stupid enough to brag about it on social media before identifying the plane, so they have a shitload of explaining to do.
I'm not saying that they are guilty, I'm just saying it is likely that they are.
I really don't get people blaming Russia for this. Putin knows that shooting down civilian planes is bad for business, and this will give him problems if he keeps supporting the rebels.
The only potential issue is if Russia supplied the weapons they used, that could worsen the relationship between them and a lot of other countries in the West.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;45425807][url]http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-d...c435926bf15ee1[/url]
This is pretty much what people have said was going to happen, no-one gives a shit until the rebels fuck up hardcore.[/QUOTE]
I just watched ABC for Abbott's word on this event and honestly he's correct and it's outstanding how the Russian govt. is trying to frame this on Ukrainian army when so far the evidence we have seen show Russian Separatist doing the dirty work.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45425836]They took black box to be deliver to russia since they can't simply pass it to Ukranina military, since, you know, [B]THEY SHOOT AT EACH OTHER
[/B] soo they try to pass it outside zoen of conflict and nearest country ot that, you guessed, is Russia.
I mean, seriously, do you expect a special ceremony of passing black box to representatives out of warzone.[/QUOTE]
What a garbage excuse. They did it because they don't want anyone from the west touching the thing, and they're incompetents who think that the black box is key to determining who shot it down.
Also, its pretty well documented by this point, and something I'm sure you're aware of, that the separatists had captured BUKs under their control, and had been firing them at targets. By their own admission. And only after the plane was shot down did they start deleting all mention of having them or having been using them to shoot down planes. Your sources are shit and you should feel bad.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45425836]They took black box to be deliver to russia since they can't simply pass it to Ukraninan military, since, you know, [B]THEY SHOOT AT EACH OTHER
[/B] soo they try to pass it outside zone of conflict and nearest country to that, you guessed, is Russia.
I mean, seriously, do you expect a special ceremony of passing black box to representatives out of warzone? Expecially when rebels aswell afraid of biased investigation.[/QUOTE]
I think the point is that is a crime scene. So you look for survivors and help them if there are any. You put out the fires. What you don't do is start removing evidence unless you are part of the investigation. People who are in a hurry to remove evidence are up to something sketchy.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;45425858]What a garbage excuse. They did it because they don't want anyone from the west touching the thing, and they're incompetents who think that the black box is key to determining who shot it down.
Also, its pretty well documented by this point, and something I'm sure you're aware of, that the separatists had captured BUKs under their control, and had been firing them at targets. By their own admission. And only after the plane was shot down did they start deleting all mention of having them or having been using them to shoot down planes. Your sources are shit and you should feel bad.[/QUOTE]
That alot of swearing and how about you provide your sources? Tweets?
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45425779]
Also i just Love FPeers policy over "source, not source" thing. If wall of text posted without links or anything but fits wanted theory it's OFFICIAL and no live videos or photos can disproove it, if article is against then all of sudden "omg, unreliable, propaganda"[/QUOTE]
If you want people to believe you, stop acting like a dick about it.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;45425865]I think the point is that is a crime scene. So you look for survivors and help them if there are any. You put out the fires. What you don't do is start removing evidence unless you are part of the investigation. People who are in a hurry to remove evidence are up to something sketchy.[/QUOTE]
how about its a crime scene in WARZONE wiht possibility of site being shelled or bombed to shit and there is no ceasefire?
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45425871]That alot of swearing and how about you provide your sources? Tweets?[/QUOTE]
stop posting
One guy posted this on facebook right before boarding the plane.
[img]http://puu.sh/agrSu/e14d336a48.jpg[/img]
Supposedly the translations means ""If it should disappear, this is what it looks like."
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45425871]That alot of swearing and how about you provide your sources? Tweets?[/QUOTE]
[img]http://drawception.com/pub/panels/2012/12-26/eFytZmLaM6-10.png[/img]
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45425836]They took black box to be deliver to russia since they can't simply pass it to Ukraninan military, since, you know, [B]THEY SHOOT AT EACH OTHER
[/B] soo they try to pass it outside zone of conflict and nearest country to that, you guessed, is Russia.
I mean, seriously, do you expect a special ceremony of passing black box to representatives out of warzone? Expecially when rebels aswell afraid of biased investigation.[/QUOTE]
Then give it to the OSZE members the rebels just agreed to let investigate?
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45425836]I mean, seriously, do you expect a special ceremony of passing black box to representatives out of warzone? Expecially when rebels aswell afraid of biased investigation.[/QUOTE]
I expected them to let it stay at the scene like decent people without motive. If they were worried about it being used against them, they could have guarded the crash site and waited for investigators to arrive. Regardless, the black box will likely have no useful information, as everyone seems to believe some form of SAM hit occurred. The pilots wouldn't notice the missile until the explosion took place, and after that the black box would either have stopped recording or would continue to record during the descent of debris.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;45425831]This is Russia you're talking about, of course they're going to want to interfere with the investigation.[/QUOTE]
Oh, my bet's on them doing just that, they hate having a bad reputation. If they publish the black box recording, I don't believe I would trust it, due to the bias they might have. Parts of the recording may be altered, removed, or rerecorded once they extract the files, if such a thing is even possible. I don't truly know how black boxes work, but it is possible that tampering with it can happen, I believe.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.