• Malaysian passenger airliner shot down over Ukraine near Russian border
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[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;45426008]You still don't get it, do you? both sides do agree on this matter, but the sources we have agree on something else entirely, and the sources you posted agree on another piece of information entirely.[/QUOTE] Soo, both sides agree on rebels do not have buks, but your sources agree on rebels having buks, and my sources agree on rebels having no buks. Soo... my sources match one of both sides then? Great, thanks.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45425978]The one i got was from russian new website but i don't think there is point in posting that one.[/QUOTE] Karimatrix: I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, due to your gold member status, and possible bias or nationalism towards your country or people who are aligned with Russia's causes. However, the fact that you've been aggressively denying all information that places blame on the separatists or even the slightest doubt towards Russia leads me to not care anymore. Shut up. Stop defending your country or your comrades in arms in an argument you could never win. 298 people died. Families are destroyed. Three infants never learned how to walk. 80 children never got to grow up. These people are dead due to a miscommunication at best, and malevolence at worst. Trying to disregard [B]facts[/B] is the lowest you can go, and I will not allow myself to see you as a possible commentator in this tragedy, as you want to engineer our views to match yours. Fuck you. EDIT: Sorry for the derail, I'm just upset by the whole thing. Any other world leaders commenting on the situation other than Obama, Putin, Ukraine's President, or Abott?
Here's my problem with conspiracy theories suggesting it was a false flag attack. There is no way in hell that Russia isn't surveying the shit out of Ukrainian airspace/Ukraine. There are a lot of suggestions that Russia has even been firing at Ukrainian Military Aircraft in Ukrainian Airspace. If they had anything at all to suggest a conspiracy they would have released it in seconds and used it to invade. Instead, the most they have come up with was to say that had the Ukraine not ended the ceasefire this wouldn't have happened. What I wager is they saw who did it but it would be really embarassing if they released the information.
Okay lets review the evidence here. On one hand. [B]+[/B] Commander of pro-russian rebels claims to have shot down a plane. On another hand [B]+[/B] Unsubstantiable claims that the rebels do not have Buk launchers. It doesn't matter if we know or think they have Buks or not, the jet has been shot down and one side has prematurely bragged about an unjustifiable crime.
I just don't get it. Rebels said, they don't have buks. Ukranian Prosecutor confimred they have no buks. But tweets from internet are heavier then that. I am being buzzed on for ignoring [B]facts[/B] yet when i ask, hey, were are the rest of facts outside labeled pictures i am suddenly called out. Are you sure it's me here who blind a bit? Or does it hurts you soo bad to admit that perhabs when two sides agree on one thing you should question previos biased info rather then go "This is still not true! Ze Internet is right! It's always Right!". [editline]18th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Brandy92;45426040]Okay lets review the evidence here. On one hand. [B]+[/B] Commander of pro-russian rebels claims to have shot down a plane. On another hand [B]+[/B] Unsubstantiable claims that the rebels do not have Buk launchers. It doesn't matter if we know or think they have Buks or not, the jet has been shot down and one side has prematurely bragged about an unjustifiable crime.[/QUOTE] Commander of pro russian rebels claimed... WHAT? He does[B] NOT[/B] have a twitter for god damn last time!
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45426043]I just don't get it. Rebels said, they don't have buks. [/quote] Why would they reveal or admit to having weapons nobody wants them to have? [quote]Ukranian Prosecutor confimred they have no buks. [/QUOTE] Is it possible the Ukrainians do not want to admit they have them, because possibly they are stolen?
[QUOTE=Brandy92;45426047]Why would they reveal or admit to having weapons nobody wants them to have? Is it possible the Ukrainians do not want to admit they have them, because possibly they are stolen?[/QUOTE] Soo you'd rather go conspiracy then simply accept it? Oh, maybe they actually wantd ot shoot down Putin's plane after all!
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45426043] Commander of pro russian rebels claimed... WHAT? He does[B] NOT[/B] have a twitter for god damn last time![/QUOTE] VK. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/zf7tBuQ.png[/IMG] No conspiracy here mate.
Why do people keep spreading that propaganda from the SBU. It's worse than any state news you can think of, it's the fucking corrupt as shit ukrainian secret police.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45426043]Ukranian Prosecutor confimred they have no buks.[/QUOTE] From [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Prosecutor_of_Ukraine#Definition]Wikipedia's article[/url] on the General Prosecutor of Ukraine. [quote] The Office of the Prosecutor General is entrusted with: prosecution in court on behalf of the State; representation of the interests of a citizen or of the State in court in cases determined by law; supervision of the observance of laws by bodies that conduct detective and search activity, inquiry and pre-trial investigation; supervision of the observance of laws in the execution of judicial decisions in criminal cases, and also in the application of other measures of coercion related to the restraint of personal liberty of citizens.[/quote] They would not know that information or be able to give that information, your sources are not as correct as you say they are.
[QUOTE=Brandy92;45426053]VK. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/zf7tBuQ.png[/IMG] No conspiracy here mate.[/QUOTE] Soo what, i got VK and damn page[B] STATES [/B]that it's not his official fucking page! You can even read label that says "Summaries of the shooting of Igor", how does that pass for official person's page? Hell, i can make page dedicated to news from mars there!
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45426043]I just don't get it. Rebels said, they don't have buks. Ukranian Prosecutor confimred they have no buks. But tweets from internet are heavier then that. I am being buzzed on for ignoring [B]facts[/B] yet when i ask, hey, were are the rest of facts outside labeled pictures i am suddenly called out. Are you sure it's me here who blind a bit? Or does it hurts you soo bad to admit that perhabs when two sides agree on one thing you should question previos biased info rather then go "This is still not true! Ze Internet is right! It's always Right!".[/QUOTE]They don't agree. At all. The only place they agree is within very poor sources like RT. Everyone here knows you can read those posts and tweets, that you know exactly what they say. You're intentionally ignoring it, evidence that directly supports the claims that the separatists have BUKs. From the separatists themselves. That they shot down a plane at the same time and in the same place as the Malaysian airliner. Again from the separatists themselves. The writing is on the walls, and in a language you understand. You're completely transparent, you will gain no ground, you do not have even a vaguely strong case. Give up the act.
[B]ITT:[/B] FP Russian is in denial rebels aligned with his country murdered 300 people.
[QUOTE=40kplayer;45426060]From [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Prosecutor_of_Ukraine#Definition]Wikipedia's article[/url] on the General Prosecutor of Ukraine. They would not know that information or be able to give that information, your sources are not as correct as you say they are.[/QUOTE] And you are quite optimistic to think that novadays ukraine goverment goes all by wikipedia not to mention that Yarema was appointed by presindet himself and reported numerous time before aswell acting as representative for press most cases.
Not sure if late, but separatists to allow international investigators access to crash site: [url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28361908[/url]
[QUOTE=Brandy92;45426068][B]ITT:[/B] FP Russian is in denial rebels aligned with his country murdered 300 people.[/QUOTE] Prove they did it. They probably did, but prove they did it. You make it sound like you know all the shit that goes on in the world.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;45426076]Not sure if late, but separatists to allow international investigators access to crash site: [url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28361908[/url][/QUOTE] Yeah, that was in the article claiming the second black box was found.
[QUOTE=Brandy92;45426068][B]ITT:[/B] FP Russian is in denial rebels aligned with his country murdered 300 people.[/QUOTE] More like: Both sides blame each other with what they perceive as facts before the situation is clear. Which is pretty much what always happens. Fortunately for the west, they tend to be right in their assumptions.
[QUOTE=Brandy92;45426040] [B]+[/B] Commander of pro-russian rebels claims to have shot down a plane. [/QUOTE] The same page later on says that the commander never claimed anything himself, that all official posts from him contain a STRELKOV SAYS image at the bottom (the BUK ones didn't) and that they took the information from group discussions. It seems that they do it all the time, judging by most of messages. [b]This is not an official page. Said commander doesn't run it.[/b]
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45426074]And you are quite optimistic to think that novadays ukraine goverment goes all by wikipedia not to mention that Yarema was appointed by presindet himself and reported numerous time before aswell acting as representative for press most cases.[/QUOTE] Do you have other articles confirming Vitaly Yaerma commented on either BUKs or MH17? I can't find the articles through any non-Russian channels, which leads me to think they're not real.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45426020]Soo, both sides agree on rebels do not have buks, but your sources agree on rebels having buks, and my sources agree on rebels having no buks. Soo... my sources match one of both sides then? Great, thanks.[/QUOTE] Here's a question. The rebels are claiming to not have AA capabilities of over 4500 Meters, yet just 4 days ago they claimed to shoot down an AN-26 at 6500 Meters. Who do you think shot down the AN-26, Russia or the Rebels?
[QUOTE=40kplayer;45426099]Do you have other articles confirming Vitaly Yaerma commented on either BUKs or MH17? I can't find the articles through any non-Russian channels, which leads me to think they're not real.[/QUOTE] Yeah if only Ukraine wasn't a post-soviet country they would have non-russian international news. [editline]18th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Thlis;45426104]Here's a question. The rebels are claiming to not have AA capabilities of over 4500 Meters, yet just 4 days ago they claimed to shoot down an AN-26 at 6500 Meters. Who do you think shot down the AN-26, Russia or the Rebels?[/QUOTE] The rebels since they posted a video of a SAM hitting the plane.
[QUOTE=Demeschik;45426094]The same page later on says that the commander never claimed anything himself, that all official posts from him contain a STRELKOV SAYS image at the bottom (the BUK ones didn't) and that they took the information from group discussions. It seems that they do it all the time, judging by most of messages. [b]This is not an official page. Said commander doesn't run it.[/b][/QUOTE] Ta da. Soo this leaves us with Tweets only. Pictures against interview with Ukrainian Goverment Prosecutor. But who am i talking to, they gonna say that page backpedalled even thought it was always non official page. [editline]18th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Thlis;45426104]Here's a question. The rebels are claiming to not have AA capabilities of over 4500 Meters, yet just 4 days ago they claimed to shoot down an AN-26 at 6500 Meters. Who do you think shot down the AN-26, Russia or the Rebels?[/QUOTE] First of all, they never agreed on Ukraine presented atitude of plane being 6500km. Second, why even continue after that?
[QUOTE=Brandy92;45426068][B]ITT:[/B] FP Russian is in denial rebels aligned with his country murdered 300 people.[/QUOTE] There is a thing called like "presumption of innocence". While i don't deny that the rebels are most likely the ones who shot it down (is it confirmed, that the plane was shot down, btw? I haven't checked latest news yet), let's stop blaming someone and just wait for results of investigation.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45426109] First of all, they never agreed on Ukraine presented atitude of plane being 6500km. Second, why even continue after that?[/QUOTE] If by never agreed on you mean I refuse to accept anything that differs with my opinion then you should probably live under a rock. And by rock I mean Putin's chiseled/flabby pectoral cleavage. [QUOTE=laserguided;45426105] The rebels since they posted a video of a SAM hitting the plane.[/QUOTE] Yes, and personally I think thats one of the reasons why a lot of people think the rebels are bsing. Because they either have previously bsed or are currently bsing.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;45425541][IMG]http://puu.sh/agp7c/89807eed4a.jpg[/IMG] Is it just me or is this just disgraceful? Showing one of the victims just to gain a new likes and web views to get more fucking money. This is what I'm talking about when I say media circus or carnival. [editline]18th July 2014[/editline] If I had someone in my family who was killed and used by news networks as their poster victim, I would be offended and outraged[/QUOTE] I think the way the media is going about this so far is disgraceful full stop. Things like showing passports and crew manifests as well are just wrong, I assume people have been notified by now but yesterday certain media outlets were showing photos of passports and stuff minutes after it happened. People should not find out that their loved one has died via the news.
[QUOTE=Thlis;45426129]If by never agreed on you mean I refuse to accept anything that differs with my opinion then you should probably live under a rock. And by rock I mean Putin's chiseled/flabby pectoral cleavage.[/QUOTE] I am defending my point that being based on two sides of conflict agreeing on fact of no buks being held by rebels against controversal "proof" based on some tweeted pictures and video from biased social network page. You just try to take this to personal level.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45426155]I am defending my point that being based on two sides of conflict agreeing on fact of no buks being held by rebels against controversal "proof" based on some tweeted pictures and video from biased social network page. You just try to take this to personal level.[/QUOTE] Why is it then that both sides agree that the rebels don't have buks but only on Russian news sites? Also, Why are you ignoring this? [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;45425923]They've been posted several times in this very thread. Also fuck, shit, piss, and cunt; glad I could swear for you.[/QUOTE]
Separatists has the only reason to actually target a large plane. Neither Russia or Ukrainian forces have any reason to target large plane because they are not in war with each other. Besides why do you even keep defending the separatists? They are ethnic Russians they don't even live in your country, but have lived in Ukraine.
Why do people think that the separatists don't have Buk's? Theres been plenty pictures of them having those SAMs
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