Malaysian passenger airliner shot down over Ukraine near Russian border
1,595 replies, posted
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;45428824]Okay, if we capture who ever was responsible, I think crimes against humanity is a very, very suited thing right about now. Not only has this shoot-down killed roughly 295 passengers, it has also killed someone who is helping mankind all around.[/QUOTE]
In no way is that relevant for it to be a crime against humanity.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;45428873]They shouldn't of been shooting rockets into goddamn air regardless. 295 people are dead, including people two people who were trying to benefit humanity with AIDs/HIV vaccine research.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zotobom;45428866]I completely agree. I may have misread his post,but I think he said that they deserve ''crime against humanity'' sanctions. Like they didn't deserve that for the other 290 or so people killed.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Gentry;45428872]When the US shot down an Iranian passenger plane, it wasn't called a crime against humanity.
In fact none of the similar incidents were either, so I don't think having an AIDs doctor onboard will change that lol[/QUOTE]
[quote]In February 1996, the United States agreed to pay Iran US$131.8 million in settlement to discontinue a case brought by Iran in 1989 against the U.S. in the International Court of Justice relating to this incident,[/quote]
Aside from the fact that it was going to goto court until the US government paid the Iranian government a settlement..?
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;45428891]Aside from the fact that it was going to goto court until the US government paid the Iranian government a settlement..?[/QUOTE]
the ICJ deals with more than crimes against humanity....
I think your understanding of the term is faulty.
[quote][B]Crimes against humanity, as defined by the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_Statute_of_the_International_Criminal_Court"]Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court[/URL] Explanatory Memorandum, "are particularly odious offenses in that they constitute a serious attack on [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_dignity"]human dignity[/URL] or grave [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humiliation"]humiliation[/URL] or a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation"]degradation[/URL] of human beings."[SUP][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_humanity#cite_note-1"][1][/URL][/SUP] They are not isolated or sporadic events, but are part either of a government policy (although the perpetrators need not identify themselves with this policy) or of a wide practice of atrocities tolerated or condoned by a government or a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_facto"]de facto[/URL] authority. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder"]Murder[/URL]; [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide"]extermination[/URL]; [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture"]torture[/URL]; [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape"]rape[/URL]; [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_repression"]political[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism"]racial[/URL], or [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_persecution"]religious persecution[/URL]; and other [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inhumane"]inhumane[/URL] acts reach the threshold of crimes against humanity only if they are part of a widespread or systematic practice. Isolated inhumane acts of this nature may constitute grave infringements of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights"]human rights[/URL], or—depending on the circumstances—[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes"]war crimes[/URL], but are not classified as crimes against humanity.[SUP][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_humanity#cite_note-Horton-2"][2][/URL][/quote][/SUP][/B]
[QUOTE=Gentry;45428894]the ICJ deals with more than crimes against humanity....
I think your understanding of the term is faulty.[/QUOTE]
I am honestly just pissed off about the whole situation tbh. Not only are two-hundred ninety five people dead, but we have lost some incredibly great minds in this tragedy as well. Regardless of the charges given, someone needs to be put to trial for this.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;45428913]I am honestly just pissed off about the whole situation tbh. Not only are two-hundred ninety five people dead, but we have lost some incredibly great minds in this tragedy as well. Regardless of the charges given, someone needs to be put to trial for this.[/QUOTE]
For any context, the guy who shot down the Iranian Passenger plane was given a medal for it.
And this was aboard a sophisticated naval ship that wasn't at war with Iran with advanced radars and IFF systems, multiple well trained officers and drilled procedures that shot a large passenger plane out of the sky just pretty much 'just because'.
Not some stolen missile system stolen by jumped up idiot militiamen in the middle of an active warzone. No one is going to be tried for this, right or wrongly.
For those saying this is a crime against humanity.
If it is an accident from misidentification then it is comparable to
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiriyah_shelter_bombing[/url]
Just food for thought.
[QUOTE=Gentry;45428934]For any context, the guy who shot down the Iranian Passenger plane was given a medal for it.[/QUOTE]
It's a very fucking sad state of affairs when we award people for killing tons of civilians.
[QUOTE=Dermock;45428596]ITS RAINING MONEY![/QUOTE]
You're a horrible person.
I wonder what is the feeling of the guy who ordered to open fire or the guy who pulled the trigger right now.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;45428974]Doesn't mean they should be waved off "because war accident"
In the same sense that you are charged for accidentally running over 300 people due to a mechanical failure, these people should still be charged for purposely shooting down a plane without properly checking if its a target or a civilian airliner.[/QUOTE]
I don't think anybody is saying that it should be "waved off". They're pointing out that calling this a "crime against humanity" is simply inaccurate. The bastards who did it had still better get what's coming to them regardless of what kind of crime you want to call it.
[QUOTE=BCell;45428833]There were children and babies on board that plane! I really want to know what was in the mind of the assholes who sanction the missle attack. If the plane was just harmlessly flying over the sky with no threat to them, why was there an order to shoot it down? If making a statement means killing civilians, then those responsible for this mass murder can earn a place in hell for all eternity![/QUOTE]
didn't they think it was a Ukrainian military transport
[QUOTE=Sector 7;45429009]didn't they think it was a Ukrainian military transport[/QUOTE]
Supposedly, despite it being impossibly high for a transport and going way too fast. And when they found out, they made up excuses ("they shouldn't have been flying here" or "it was full of spies" or "the Americans planted it there to make us look bad").
[QUOTE=Sector 7;45429009]didn't they think it was a Ukrainian military transport[/QUOTE]
Doesn't matter. Even if they did, it was flying at commercial cruising altitude, specifically out of the no-fly zone, meaning that it should never have been targeted in the first place.
[QUOTE=Taggart;45429042]Doesn't matter. Even if they did, it was flying at commercial cruising altitude, specifically out of the no-fly zone, meaning that it should never have been targeted in the first place.[/QUOTE]
What makes it worse is that they were trying to justify what happened. "The aircraft was full of spies" LMAO
[QUOTE=darunner;45429027]Supposedly, despite it being impossibly high for a transport and going way too fast. And when they found out, they made up excuses ("they shouldn't have been flying here" or "it was full of spies" or "the Americans planted it there to make us look bad").[/QUOTE]
These were probably not the most well trained operators. Even if they were ex-Ukrainian military.
Like when the Ukrainians shot down a civilian plane by mistake in 2001 killing 78.
[quote]A Siberian Airlines plane was heading to Novosibirsk, Russia from Tel Aviv, Israel when it was shot down and crashed into the Black Sea on 4 October, 2001. All 78 passengers onboard were killed. The Ukrainian military denied its involvement at first.
However, Ukrainian officials later admitted that its military had mistakenly shot the plane during a training exercise.[/quote]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-28361223[/url]
[QUOTE=Orkel;45428571]Same video was posted on youtube 2 weeks ago. Not the MH17.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULHihLTpLyg[/url][/QUOTE]
Obviously the plane traveled back in time when it was hit.
[QUOTE=Gentry;45429054]These were probably not the most well trained operators. Even if they were ex-Ukrainian military.
Like when the Ukrainians shot down a civilian plane by mistake in 2001 killing 78.
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-28361223[/url][/QUOTE]
Kiev: 2001 plane crash caused by seperatists
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;45428974]Doesn't mean they should be waved off "because war accident"
In the same sense that you are charged for accidentally running over 300 people due to a mechanical failure, these people should still be charged for purposely shooting down a plane without properly checking if its a target or a civilian airliner.[/QUOTE]
I didn't suggest such a thing, though that it's what happened in the incident for the americans.
I think the person responsible for authorising the attack should be tried in a court Marshall and I think the regime responsible should own up, apologise, offer to pay/make amends and make sure such a thing shouldn't happen again.
If its Ukraine e won't hear about it, if it's the rebels then sanctioning Russia is clearly more politically motivated and under handed.
Of its the rebels then they aught to stop acting like bandits and own up, clean up and face the consequences.
[QUOTE=laserguided;45429208]Kiev: 2001 plane crash caused by seperatists[/QUOTE]
more likely than you think
"proto-separatists responsible for 2001 plane shooting"
[url=http://bit.ly/Uf80ye]Someone[/url] on MH17 was from my home town.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;45427870][img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19945172/1405691271556.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
[quote]"If this was a Buk, we should expect to see holes in the fuselage, wings etc. But if it was an air-to-air missile, then we should expect elongated 'cuts' along the body of the plane, as opposed to 'holes'."[/quote]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28363394[/url]
I think the worst part about all of this is how little closure the families and loved ones of all the deceased will get. This horror is going to follow them their entire lives; all over someone firing first and asking questions later.
I'm sure its been stated...but I'm assuming there are 0 survivors, right?
[QUOTE=VOSK;45429590]I'm sure its been stated...but I'm assuming there are 0 survivors, right?[/QUOTE]
Yes, everybody on board is confirmed dead.
[QUOTE=Gentry;45429502][url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28363394[/url][/QUOTE]
Wonder Woman wanted for questioning in downing of passenger jet.
[QUOTE=Gentry;45429502][url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28363394[/url][/QUOTE]
I'm not sure the angle of that cut is right for an air to air missile.
It's a similar note to the missing Malaysian airliner; this sort of thing shouldn't be able to happen in this day and age. You shouldn't have to worry that your plane will go missing and have absolutely no trace of it ; you shouldn't have to worry about your plane being shot down with a missile when it's clearly marked a civilian airliner. (I know the plane shouldn't of been in Ukraine in the first place, were they not well above the no fly limit in terms of altitude?)
Now I'm interested to see what the global reaction ends up being; considering this event has now forced the involvement of different countries in Ukraine.
I would take my own life the moment I realized I fired a missile that took like lives of 300 innocents. People who will never experience the beauty life has to offer.
[QUOTE=GunFox;45429619]I'm not sure the angle of that cut is right for an air to air missile.[/QUOTE]
perhaps - I wouldn't know
I just read that line in the bbc article then remembered that picture.
Not trying to draw any links beyond that.
I hope this shows NATO how pointless the conflict is and they try to end it.
But then again, it's NATO
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