Against Me! Singer Tom Gabel Comes Out As Transgender, Plans On Starting Hormone Treatments - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Sanius;35890221]don't I like this one. yours was too big[/QUOTE] :q: [editline]9th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Platinumcs;35889599]Now we're getting into dangerous territory. But to put it simply, we are designed to try to seek out a partner of the opposite sex to reproduce and pass on our genes. We are no different to any other animal in that regard[/QUOTE] You know that there's homosexuality recorded in like 100+ species and there's actually several animals that change gender right?

[QUOTE=Crimor;35890762]You know that there's homosexuality recorded in like 100+ species and there's actually several animals that change gender right?[/QUOTE] Such as [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphiprioninae#Reproduction"]clownfish[/URL] Though they don't truly change gender. They're kinda both at the same time, though only one gender role is active at a time.

[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;35889631]Doing that just shows a lack of respect.[/QUOTE] She's been referred to as a guy all her life up until this point so it's inevitable people are going to continue doing so for a bit. Not saying it's right or anything, it's just a big sudden change for everyone [editline]9th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Platinumcs;35889599]Now we're getting into dangerous territory. But to put it simply, we are designed to try to seek out a partner of the opposite sex to reproduce and pass on our genes. We are no different to any other animal in that regard[/QUOTE] You're sort of right. The male reproductive system evolved to work with and only with the female reproductive system and vice versa. That's how living organisms minus plants, fungi, and protozoa have evolved to reproduce. If you're homosexual or asexual you're not going to naturally pass on your genes and produce offspring because you're not attracted to mate with the opposite sex. The sole purpose of sex is to reproduce. Scientifically speaking homosexuality, bisexuality, asexuality and transgenderism are biologically anomalous because of what I just explained and the fact they're caused by hormone imbalances in the womb (at least that's what I think is the general consensus) Now that doesn't mean they're 'wrong' in anyway, in the same way that going bald at 20 isn't wrong, it's just not what's meant to happen It just seems obvious to me and I feel silly having to explain it when it's basic science

I swear this is what happens to every trans-related news thread on Facepunch I sure I can see how you might find it weird to find out you had sex with a t-girl, I can kinda try to put myself in your shoes here. The thing that's important here is that you're actually ok with the whole transgender thing. And I kinda do have to agree that it'd be poor manners not to tell a person you love about your past, especially if you're going to do something sexual. I mean your partner has a right to know about stuff like this, just like you'd tell them if you had, like, a peanut allergy or something, right? Then again as mentioned it would probably make a weird impression if you went on a date and the first thing you said was like "I USED TO BE A BOY". Besides, you never know who's going to snap and beat you up (or even worse) for just being yourself. Why can't we all be friends and ok with the fact that we are different

[QUOTE=Van-man;35890997]Such as [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphiprioninae#Reproduction"]clownfish[/URL] Though they don't truly change gender. They're kinda both at the same time, though only one gender role is active at a time.[/QUOTE] Or (I think?) the australian bullfrog, hell, the entire plot of jurassic park centered around using their dna :v:

[QUOTE=Tattimatonen;35891585] Why can't we all be friends and ok with the fact that we are different[/QUOTE] Simple: Because we are different. It's a double edged sword, can both be a advantage AND a dis-advantage.

[QUOTE=BloodFox1222;35889634]Yeah but you probably don't care much about reproduction and most people do and i think that is the key factor, Not societys influence.[/QUOTE] The idea that transphobia is due to reproductive inability is tremendously flimsy. Nobody's disgusted by a sterile man/woman, and I'm sure the vast majority of us would not discontinue a relationship over that fact.

In other news, NOONE IS ASKING YOU TO HAVE SEX WITH THE LADY. So just be happy for her, yeah?

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;35893091][B]The idea that transphobia is due to reproductive inability is tremendously flimsy. [/B] Nobody's disgusted by a sterile man/woman, and I'm sure the vast majority of us would not discontinue a relationship over that fact.[/QUOTE] There's still [B]A LOT[/B] people who make it a big fucking deal. BUT they're usually also the type of people who make a big fucking deal out of the fact that slavery is illegal. So since there's a ridiculous amount of bigoted people in this world, things like transgender acceptance is going slower than baby-steps.

[QUOTE=RobbL;35891130]She's been referred to as a guy all her life up until this point so it's inevitable people are going to continue doing so for a bit. Not saying it's right or anything, it's just a big sudden change for everyone [editline]9th May 2012[/editline] You're sort of right. The male reproductive system evolved to work with and only with the female reproductive system and vice versa. That's how living organisms minus plants, fungi, and protozoa have evolved to reproduce. If you're homosexual or asexual you're not going to naturally pass on your genes and produce offspring because you're not attracted to mate with the opposite sex. The sole purpose of sex is to reproduce. Scientifically speaking homosexuality, bisexuality, asexuality and transgenderism are biologically anomalous because of what I just explained and the fact they're caused by hormone imbalances in the womb (at least that's what I think is the general consensus) Now that doesn't mean they're 'wrong' in anyway, in the same way that going bald at 20 isn't wrong, it's just not what's meant to happen It just seems obvious to me and I feel silly having to explain it when it's basic science[/QUOTE]Genes that lead to a increased chance of homosexuality can still be passed down, much like how recessive genes for certain genetic diseases can still be passed down even if the one with the disease doesn't or can't breed. Kin selection is also another reason.

I'm happy for her. She's a great singer. She's nice. She. Sheeee. Her face. Benelli.

Good for her, it takes massive courage to come out to the world with stuff like this.

That must've been weird for his wife.

[QUOTE=markg06;35899799]That must've been weird for his wife.[/QUOTE] Her wife and she has already mentioned how Heather was very supportive. Plus, I think she's gonna adopt her wife's maiden name as her last name. That's very sweet.

i think it's great that she's getting support from her spouse on this, more power to her

[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;35898741]Genes that lead to a increased chance of homosexuality can still be passed down, much like how recessive genes for certain genetic diseases can still be passed down even if the one with the disease doesn't or can't breed. Kin selection is also another reason.[/QUOTE] Yeah I've heard that certain genes can increase the chance of developing homosexuality but I was more or less just getting at Sanius when he claimed that Platinumcs post here- [QUOTE=Platinumcs;35889599] But to put it simply, we are designed to try to seek out a partner of the opposite sex to reproduce and pass on our genes.[/QUOTE] -was completely wrong, when obviously it isn't

[QUOTE=BenJammin';35883765]Is it wrong that this whole transsexual stuff really weirds me out? It's not like I am against it really but it's just plain weird to me, it's not like I have old-fasion views or anything but I just don't like the thought of it.[/QUOTE] Personally, I find it repulsive. However, people should do whatever makes them happy, and it's not my role to tell people how they can and can't live their lives.

[QUOTE=Platinumcs;35889599] But to put it simply, we are designed[/QUOTE] we are not and never were designed for anything

genitals and sexual urges are byproducts of evolution. plenty of species reproduce just fine using asexual reproduction, and plenty of species have sex only to reproduce and they survive just fine. there's no reason.

[QUOTE=thisispain;35904989]we are not and never were designed for anything[/QUOTE] That's basically the same as saying no parts of our body serve any purpose, imo

[QUOTE=RobbL;35905344]That's basically the same as saying no parts of our body serve any purpose, imo[/QUOTE] they don't serve a purpose, they are the result of evolution and essentially what worked stayed while what didn't work died off.

[QUOTE=thisispain;35905203]genitals and sexual urges are byproducts of evolution. [/QUOTE] Genitals and sexual urges are just improvements to a function that has existed in all lifeforms since they first appeared But tbh I don't even know what you're actually arguing so it's probably a good idea I don't go too deep into it

[QUOTE=Atlascore;35905356]If they were byproducts of evolution they would only appear within a few species, but guess what, most living things on the planet reproduce through sex, and guess what else, some of the most intelligent and successful species reproduce through sex also, it clearly gives some kind of advantage over asexual species.[/QUOTE] i'm gonna ignore the first part because you were just being a dick. to the second part, no byproducts of evolution would appear in every single chain leading up to the final species. this is a stupid conversation because we weren't talking about just sex. the person i was rebutting said that he wouldn't date same-sex people because we are "designed" to seek out a partner to reproduce and have sex with. but we aren't designed to do such a thing, our reproductive organs are simply the product of evolution and the method on which we produce more offspring. we are different from many animals in that humans fuck for recreation as well as reproduction, and you could easily argue that we evolved that ability seeing as many animals cannot have sex without reproducing due to the penis being forced to stay in during sex. simply put we aren't designed to do anything and getting into a big same-sex orgy is a-okay if you're into that.

you are using "purpose" in different ways.

[QUOTE=RobbL;35905546]Genitals and sexual urges are just improvements to a function that has existed in all lifeforms since they first appeared[/QUOTE] not really "improvements", just what was convenient. plenty of species reproduce in radically different ways than humans. i'm just laying out one of the key principles of evolution, there's no design or reason, what was capable of being genetically passed down is passed down.

I wonder - as a straight man - if I could fall in love with someone transgendered. Which really shakes the foundations of 'what is straight?' Hell I'm guessing I could probably fall in love with a man if they looked and sounded convincingly female enough.

[QUOTE=thisispain;35905479]they don't serve a purpose, they are the result of evolution and essentially what worked stayed while what didn't work died off.[/QUOTE] But they evolved to fit a purpose or improve on a previous one, that's the point. The purpose of the heart is to pump blood around the body, the purpose of legs is to move around efficiently, ect. 'Purposes' don't require a designer

[QUOTE=Atlascore;35905573]That's what evolution is, holy shit are you really that dense? Those things DO serve a purpose, they helped us survive and gain and advantage over other living things, it's why we're so intelligent and have thumbs, it's why we reproduce sexually, we gained these things through [B]evolution.[/B][/QUOTE] no not really plenty of things in the human body and DNA serve no function. i've taken college-level courses in biology, stop insulting me i'm not your child.

[QUOTE=thisispain;35905629]no not really plenty of things in the human body and DNA serve no function. i've taken college-level courses in biology, stop insulting me i'm not your child.[/QUOTE] But you said we're not and never were 'designed' for [b]anything[/b] Btw, what are we actually arguing here because i'm trying to go along with it but i'm just getting confused :v:

[QUOTE=RobbL;35905613]But they evolved to fit a purpose or improve on a previous one, that's the point. The purpose of the heart is to pump blood around the body, the purpose of legs is to move around efficiently, ect. 'Purposes' don't require a designer[/QUOTE] hindsight is 50/50. evolution doesn't fit purposes or improve upon on anything, it's simply the mechanic on which life continues on. evolution is the same mechanic that cancer operates on which doesn't improve or fit a purpose, it just kills you. [editline]10th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=RobbL;35905655]But you said we're not and never were 'designed' for [I]anything[/I] Btw, what are we actually arguing here because i'm trying to go along with it but i'm just getting confused :v:[/QUOTE] we're arguing here that evolution is a mechanic and any result, IE humans, is caused by aggregation rather than purpose or reasoning.