Against Me! Singer Tom Gabel Comes Out As Transgender, Plans On Starting Hormone Treatments - Polidicks

[QUOTE=RobbL;35905655] Btw, what are we actually arguing here because i'm trying to go along with it but i'm just getting confused :v:[/QUOTE] Ah, was it something to do with homosexuality, asexuality and transgenderism not being anomalous within humans because no lifeforms were meant to work in a certain way or something like that?

[QUOTE=Atlascore;35905694]Plenty of things? Okay that doesn't change the fact that our limbs and genitals serve a purpose. [editline]10th May 2012[/editline] Maybe you should look up eyes, they basically started out as worthless and became one of the most important organs a living creature can have, through evolution over millions of years.[/QUOTE] how are you missing his point he's making it pretty clear

[QUOTE=Atlascore;35905694]Plenty of things? Okay that doesn't change the fact that our limbs and genitals serve a purpose.[/QUOTE] no they have a function, there's a big semantic difference there. the limbs and genitals evolved first and then developed a function, if it didn't develop a function it would continue as a vestigial organ, like wings on flightless birds, and if it was detrimental to the survival of the animal the animal would die off.

Btw i'm trying really hard to think of this word that describes a harmonious system where each part serves a function that evolves from a completely random and chaotic set of meaningless rules or variables or something like that I think the term is used in computing as well as physical sciences

[QUOTE=Atlascore;35905694] Maybe you should look up eyes[/QUOTE] maybe you should stop being a dick and pretend like i don't know what eyes are [QUOTE=Atlascore;35905694]they basically started out as worthless and became one of the most important organs a living creature can have, through evolution over millions of years.[/QUOTE] and maybe you should look up the eye considering that's not really true, they didn't really start off as worthless.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;35905694]Plenty of things? Okay that doesn't change the fact that our limbs and genitals serve a purpose. [editline]10th May 2012[/editline] Maybe you should look up eyes, they basically started out as worthless and became one of the most important organs a living creature can have, through evolution over millions of years.[/QUOTE] They have a function, they don't serve a purpose.

[QUOTE=RobbL;35905771]Btw i'm trying really hard to think of this word that describes a harmonious system where each part serves a function that evolves from a completely random set of meaningless rules or something like that I think the term is used in computing as well as physical sciences[/QUOTE] well it's not harmonious and it's not each part, if you were to design a human body with the science and technology today (transhumanist porn) you'd probably do a lot of overhauls. i'd start with the appendix, running joke of the medical world.

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;35904874]Personally, I find it repulsive.[/QUOTE] maybe you should get that checked. people all over the internet keep making posts like "I personally find it disgusting but it's their right to..." wrt to transsexuals and homosexuals and while it's nice and all that they're still trying to leave them be in a political sense that's also a really really crazy thing to be disgusted by. like it's yeah it's your personal belief, but your personal belief is [i]bananas[/i]

[QUOTE=thisispain;35905732]no they have a function, there's a big semantic difference there. the limbs and genitals evolved first and then developed a function[/QUOTE] That's not how evolution works... [QUOTE=thisispain;35905732]if it didn't develop a function it would continue as a vestigial organ, like wings on flightless birds[/QUOTE] Vestigial organs are 'leftovers', organs that once did have a function but became useless as the organism evolved It's not any creature in the past has just sprouted some random appendages that don't do anything

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35905859]maybe you should get that checked. people all over the internet keep making posts like "I personally find it disgusting but it's their right to..." wrt to transsexuals and homosexuals and while it's nice and all that they're still trying to leave them be in a political sense that's also a really really crazy thing to be disgusted by. like it's yeah it's your personal belief, but your personal belief is [i]bananas[/i][/QUOTE] everybody knows that statements are made unoffensive when prefaced with "in my opinion" or "personally" get with it dude

[QUOTE=thisispain;35905813]well it's not harmonious and it's not each part, if you were to design a human body with the science and technology today (transhumanist porn) you'd probably do a lot of overhauls. i'd start with the appendix, running joke of the medical world.[/QUOTE] The ecosystem is an example of one of these systems btw

[QUOTE=Atlascore;35905837]I said [i]basically[/i] worthless, the first types of eyes were incredibly weak and didn't even see properly compared to later types of eyes living things evolved.[/QUOTE] They still gave the species an advantage over species that didn't have eyes, thus they were not worthless.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;35905837]I said [i]basically[/i] worthless, the first types of eyes were incredibly weak and didn't even see properly compared to later types of eyes living things evolved.[/QUOTE] which was sufficient function for unicellular organisms.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;35905694]Plenty of things? Okay that doesn't change the fact that our limbs and genitals serve a purpose. [/QUOTE] no, they don't. they don't have a purpose in a teleological sense, they are the [i]result[/i] of millions of years of natural selection. that's all evolution is; a result. [editline]10th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Atlascore;35905874]They have a purpose, how well would a human survive ten thousand years ago if they lost their eyesight or limbs?[/QUOTE] purpose and function are two different things.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;35905874]They have a purpose, how well would a human survive ten thousand years ago if they lost their eyesight or limbs?[/QUOTE] [img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5483751/Photos/2012-05-10_2358.png[/img] The reason we have eyesight and limbs is not because they help us see or because they help us walk/grab things, but because being able to see and being able to walk/grab things is an advantage over other species and has helped us survive, and the species that did not have these things died off. They do not have a purpose because they were not created, they just are there. They have a function, not a purpose. Purpose implies they were created for a reason, function implies that they are used for something.

yeah this is getting sort of semantic but parts of biological organisms don't have purposes because that implies a design and evolution cannot "design" anything because, as said, evolution is a result of natural forces, not a force of it's own.

[QUOTE=RobbL;35905863]That's not how evolution works...[/QUOTE] yes it is. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution[/url] you might not be aware of this but the notion of developing in order for a species to progress was abandoned many years ago. only the genes that do not impede survival get carried on, and things like genetic drift and mutation work in addition to adaptation. (i wrote adaptation instead of addition oh dear) [QUOTE=RobbL;35905863]Vestigial organs are 'leftovers', organs that once did have a function but became useless as the organism evolved It's not any creature in the past has just sprouted some random appendages that don't do anything[/QUOTE] yeah duh the point is though that we didn't evolve legs just because our common ancestors decided they felt like walking the other day. [editline]10th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35905944]yeah this is getting sort of semantic but parts of biological organisms don't have purposes because that implies a design and evolution cannot "design" anything because, as said, evolution is a result of natural forces, not a force of it's own.[/QUOTE] well in the end we can say Platinumcs is wrong and a bad person, that's what counts

Honestly, as long as he has a penis I consider Gabel a him. Now that's all out of the way, I wish him the very best of luck.

You all realise that this whole argument stemmed from Sanius claiming that this comment was completely wrong: [QUOTE=Platinumcs;35889599] we are designed to try to seek out a partner of the opposite sex to reproduce and pass on our genes. [/QUOTE] So even if function and purpose don't mean the same thing, what everyone is saying here still supports the fact that humans function so that males mate with females to pass on genes and produce offspring, and that the functions of the human body work around this. This still disproves Sanius' opinion which I thought was so obviously dumb anyway :rolleyes:

you might think it was "obviously dumb" but it wasn't, we are not designed to do any of that stuff and we are different from other animals.

[QUOTE=thisispain;35906394]you might think it was "obviously dumb" but it wasn't, we are not designed to do any of that stuff and we are different from other animals.[/QUOTE] Your logic confuses me [editline]10th May 2012[/editline] Basically what it comes down to is that the human body is meant to function in a certain way, and if you argue with that you're an idiot. Sorry.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35905859]maybe you should get that checked. people all over the internet keep making posts like "I personally find it disgusting but it's their right to..." wrt to transsexuals and homosexuals and while it's nice and all that they're still trying to leave them be in a political sense that's also a really really crazy thing to be disgusted by. like it's yeah it's your personal belief, but your personal belief is [i]bananas[/i][/QUOTE] You don't have to be an ass about it. I'm supportive of their rights and that should be all that matters.

[QUOTE=Smug Bastard;35906190]Honestly, as long as he has a penis I consider Gabel a him. Now that's all out of the way, I wish him the very best of luck.[/QUOTE] lol "now that announcing my bigotry is out of the way..."

[QUOTE=RobbL;35906432] if you argue with that you're an idiot. Sorry.[/QUOTE] yeah i guess evolutionary research is really comprised of idiots good catch there mate really exposed those dickheads!

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;35906536]You don't have to be an ass about it. I'm supportive of their rights and that should be all that matters.[/QUOTE] i'm not trying to be rude I'm just saying it's really really weird and I dunno, it seems like an undesirable state of affairs? like wouldn't you want to try to work through that so, instead of feeling that way, you don't feel that way?

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35907064]i'm not trying to be rude I'm just saying it's really really weird and I dunno, it seems like an undesirable state of affairs? like wouldn't you want to try to work through that so, instead of feeling that way, you don't feel that way?[/QUOTE] Of course I'm trying to get over it. I mean, don't you remember what I was like two years ago?

[QUOTE=RobbL;35906432]Your logic confuses me [editline]10th May 2012[/editline] Basically what it comes down to is that the human body is meant to function in a certain way, and if you argue with that you're an idiot. Sorry.[/QUOTE] The human body isn't meant to do anything, it just is as it is, and does what it does. That's it. Simple as that.

[QUOTE=Smug Bastard;35906190]Honestly, as long as he has a penis I consider Gabel a him. Now that's all out of the way, I wish him the very best of luck.[/QUOTE] I really hope you're aware of how much of dickhead thing it is to misgender her like that. She's a she regardless of her genitalia. It's about identity not what's between your legs. [editline]10th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Sanius;35906553]lol "now that announcing my bigotry is out of the way..."[/QUOTE] Good summary.

People need to understand that there's a difference between gender and sex.

[QUOTE=Sanius;35889423]I'm not trans or cis anything[/QUOTE] But by not being trans, are you not by definition cis?