Pregnant Women Hit, Pepper-Sprayed By Police, Miscarries - Polidicks

[QUOTE=username69;33384949]so this is murder, but abortion isn't? make up your mind people.[/QUOTE] How is that even relevant to what happened there?

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;33384970] Abortion is voluntary on the part of the pregnant woman. This is involuntary and caused by police brutality. There's a difference.[/QUOTE] So i can kill my neighbor because i choose to? It's okay to kill someone if i voluntarily do it? Sure, whatever you say buddy.

[QUOTE=username69;33385012]So i can kill my neighbor because i choose to? It's okay to kill someone if i voluntarily do it? Sure, whatever you say buddy.[/QUOTE] Abortion: the voluntary act in which a mother decides to not give birth to her child Involuntary abortion: the involuntary act in which some outside force (be it chemical or physical) prevents the mother from giving birth to her child

It's on reddit and the guardian already: [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/22/occupy-seattle-protester-miscarriage[/url] [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/ml6ge/pregnant_woman_pepper_sprayed_by_cops_during/[/url]

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;33385044]Abortion: the voluntary act in which a mother decides to not give birth to her child Involuntary abortion: the involuntary act in which some outside force (be it chemical or physical) prevents the mother from giving birth to her child[/QUOTE] nice response. i can see i've won this already. good day.

[QUOTE=username69;33385088]nice response. i can see i've won this already. good day.[/QUOTE] Is the woman voluntarily seeking for someone to kill the fetus inside of her? No. That's involuntary and unjustified. Do people walk around asking to be forced into sex? No. That's involuntary and unjustified. Do people walk around seeking for someone to beat them over the head with a baton? No. That's involuntary and unjustified. Do people ask to be sprayed in the face with a chemical that simulates burning and can even kill them? No. That's fucking involuntary and certainly unjustified. Do you go around asking to be proven wrong? No. That's involuntary but you'd bet your ass that it's justified. You're on a discussion forum; if you don't like that, then get out.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;33385122]Is the woman voluntarily seeking for someone to kill the fetus inside of her? No. That's involuntary and unjustified. Do people walk around asking to be forced into sex? No. That's involuntary and unjustified. Do people walk around seeking for someone to beat them over the head with a baton? No. That's involuntary and unjustified. Do people ask to be sprayed in the face with a chemical that simulates burning and can even kill them? No. That's fucking involuntary and certainly unjustified. Do you go around asking to be proven wrong? No. That's involuntary but you'd bet your ass that it's justified. You're on a discussion forum; if you don't like that, then get out.[/QUOTE] Is the woman voluntarily seeking for someone to kill the fetus inside of her? does it matter? if you think she has the right to end it's life then is it really alive if she is allowed to kill it? if she can kill it and it's not murder than the policeman hasn't murdered anything, it might be assault or something, but it's not murder. Do people walk around asking to be forced into sex? define people Do people walk around seeking for someone to beat them over the head with a baton? depends how they are acting Do people ask to be sprayed in the face with a chemical that simulates burning and can even kill them? depends how they are acting Do you go around asking to be proven wrong? i dont know what you're getting at with this one. you really are a confused person aren't you.

I'm a horrible person, but all I could think of was [img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100226092112/fallout/images/a/ab/Childkiller_Unused.jpg[/img] I'm so sorry

[QUOTE=username69;33385189]Is the woman voluntarily seeking for someone to kill the fetus inside of her? does it matter? if you think she has the right to end it's life then is it really alive if she is allowed to kill it? if she can kill it and it's not murder than the policeman hasn't murdered anything, it might be assault or something, but it's not murder. Do people walk around asking to be forced into sex? define people Do people walk around seeking for someone to beat them over the head with a baton? depends how they are acting Do people ask to be sprayed in the face with a chemical that simulates burning and can even kill them? depends how they are acting Do you go around asking to be proven wrong? i dont know what you're getting at with this one. you really are a confused person aren't you.[/QUOTE] I never said that killing the fetus was murder. I said it was involuntary. Two different things and I'd appreciate it if you addressed what I was actually talking about. Try not to make another strawman, okay? If you need to know what "people" means, then you need some help. In this context, the people are acting non-violent. I'm speaking about the peaceful protesters who are victims of police brutality. If you can't acknowledge that, then why are you in this thread? You are a sad, strange little man.

Woman pregnant? Kick her in the stomach! So, manslaughter?

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;33385235]I never said that killing the fetus was murder. I said it was involuntary. Two different things and I'd appreciate it if you addressed what I was actually talking about. Try not to make another strawman, okay? If you need to know what "people" means, then you need some help. In this context, the people are acting non-violent. I'm speaking about the peaceful protesters who are victims of police brutality. If you can't acknowledge that, then why are you in this thread? You are a sad, strange little man.[/QUOTE] The people are enemies of the state and traitors to their country. The police went lightly on them.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;33384863]1. A peaceful protest should never have any risk of becoming violent in the first place [/QUOTE] Too bad that particularly the Wall Street chapter has deviated from that a few times. Seriously, it's a protest that has gotten violent NUMEROUS times. At this point, expecting it to remain peacefully borders on the naive. Using the 'peaceful protest should never have any risk of becoming violent' argument is starting to turn moot because it quite clearly isn't any more. Why would a pregnant woman go to a protest that's had several violent outbursts? You're essentially putting yourself at risk, WILLINGLY.

[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;33385278]Too bad that particularly the Wall Street chapter has deviated from that a few times. Seriously, it's a protest that has gotten violent NUMEROUS times. At this point, expecting it to remain peacefully borders on the naive. Using the 'peaceful protest should never have any risk of becoming violent' argument is starting to turn moot because it quite clearly isn't any more. Why would a pregnant woman go to a protest that's had several violent outbursts? You're essentially putting yourself at risk, WILLINGLY.[/QUOTE] Regardless of who's at fault for her going to the protest, that doesn't justify attacking someone who is clearly attempting to leave peacefully without resistance. Let alone one who is carrying an unborn child. If this were war, doing shit like that would be tantamount to defying the Geneva Convention.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;33385294]Regardless of who's at fault for her going to the protest, that doesn't justify attacking someone who is clearly attempting to leave peacefully without resistance. Let alone one who is carrying an unborn child.[/QUOTE] No doubt about that, I think we can all agree on that. But when you have an entire crowd that is turning violent and loud, there's next to nothing you can do for the 2, maybe 3 that are complying. You have an entire crowd who are much louder than them so hearing them becomes a bit of an issue, you have an entire crowd to even get through (depending on the position of said people) which puts you at a MAJOR risk and even if you get to them, there's still the matter of escorting them out which can easily be viewed by the protesters as abduction or being arrested which WILL make shit hit the fan. Double-edged sword. You're damned either way.

There are two parts in this article that make question how legitimate she is: [quote]"It hurts. It's upsetting. I was really to have a kid, because my family was going to support me in taking care of the child. [b]Her name was going to be Miracle."[/b] Fox asked for medical attention and was rushed to Harborview Medical Center, she says, where doctors performed an ultrasound and said that they "didn't see anything wrong with the baby at the time." Fox says she had also seen a physician at Harborview for prenatal care about five week before.[/quote] I'd assume that being kicked and pepper sprayed would have had immediate effects on her 3 month baby considering that both those actions are intended to provide immediate results. [quote][b]I repeatedly asked Fox if she could provide any medical records that confirm the miscarriage or that the clash with police officers caused it. She did not have copies but says she asked her case worker at Harborview to provide her with records. Harboview officials say they cannot provide any information, of course, except that medical records would mention those details.[/b][/quote] Then this part part. The evidence to actually support her claim being non-existent at this point. I'm hoping this guy does follow up on this story soon with specific records so that she can get her case going but as it stands...being a homeless woman opens up for many other possibilities that could have contributed to this problem. Again, we're only going off of what she actually says and this story serves only as an emotional appeal to those already die-hard supporters of the OWS movement. I'm not saying the police are right, she's wrong blah blah blah, I'm only asking a legitimate question because this feels like emotional propaganda toward the OWS movement. The truth possibly being distorted to support one side of the situation.

[QUOTE=Scar;33385210]I'm a horrible person, but all I could think of was [img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100226092112/fallout/images/a/ab/Childkiller_Unused.jpg[/img] I'm so sorry[/QUOTE] At least it's not in the first page/first post

[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;33385376]There are two parts in this article that make question how legitimate she is: I'd assume that being kicked and pepper sprayed would have had immediate effects on her 3 month baby considering that both those actions are intended to provide immediate results. Then this part part. The evidence to actually support her claim being non-existent at this point. I'm hoping this guy does follow up on this story soon with specific records so that she can get her case going but as it stands...being a homeless woman opens up for many other possibilities that could have contributed to this problem. Again, we're only going off of what she actually says and this story serves only as an emotional appeal to those already die-hard supporters of the OWS movement. I'm not saying the police are right, she's wrong blah blah blah, I'm only asking a legitimate questions because this feels like emotional propaganda toward the OWS movement. The truth possibly being distorted to support one side of the situation.[/QUOTE] I would like to see the follow up too. But if the story holds up, it's fucking disgusting.

You know it's not a violent protest when police are more violent than the protesters.

[QUOTE=username69;33385189]Is the woman voluntarily seeking for someone to kill the fetus inside of her? does it matter? if you think she has the right to end it's life then is it really alive if she is allowed to kill it? if she can kill it and it's not murder than the policeman hasn't murdered anything, it might be assault or something, but it's not murder. Do people walk around asking to be forced into sex? define people Do people walk around seeking for someone to beat them over the head with a baton? depends how they are acting Do people ask to be sprayed in the face with a chemical that simulates burning and can even kill them? depends how they are acting Do you go around asking to be proven wrong? i dont know what you're getting at with this one. you really are a confused person aren't you.[/QUOTE] Where's Zeke when you need him?

[QUOTE=T2L_Goose;33383005]Well, if the police caused the physical trauma that caused the baby to die...doesn't that tie them to the miscarriage then? [editline]22nd November 2011[/editline] It's extremely cynical I know, and I hope it's not true that they're twisting the story of this miscarriage . Either situation is terrible and there really is no right answer. A woman lost her unborn child for whatever reason, and that's terrible enough. [editline]22nd November 2011[/editline] Also, this seems to be the only source about this information.[/QUOTE] If there's a causal nexus that links to the miscarriage, depending on the legislature and the visibility of the pregnancy it could be involuntary manslaughter, possibly negligent manslaughter. Though a lot of it depends on the situation and evidence provided. If she was "just" peppered inside of a group that was semi violent (even if she wanted out) and wasn't fully seen or something then it would probably not be a case of it. Same goes if it was a flashbang or something into a group to suppress them. But if she was really hurt and kicked at by a cop while screaming to stop that she was pregnant, then there could definitely be a case of manslaughter. Of course it also depends on how much time has passed since the two things happened. Let's say she was hurt and the baby was fine for 3 weeks and then suddenly began to e xperience troubles. Here I doubt a causal nexus can be found. I'm fairly untrusting though myself and the whole thing seems fishy to me. Single mom Child named Miracle No documentation about the thing actually The baby being fine after being rushed to the ER. (apparently)

[QUOTE=Drsalvador;33384924]Have you even looked at any sort of eyewitness video or photographs of the protests? The police are goddamn kicking and dragging /unarmed people/. they're acting like the Gestapo[/QUOTE] Again, a hyperbole. The gestapo dragged people off in the dead of night, and they were never seen again. Not to mention the absolutely [I]horiffic[/I] things they'd to in broad daylight. I also find it funny that people call low income areas "ghettos", where in Nazi Germany, ghettos are where the Jewish population were forcibly relocated to until they were slaughtered en mass. Anyways, that's off topic. There are some police officers that overstep their bounds, yes, this is true, but the majority of these officers that take these measures (pepper spraying and crowd control) are entirely justified. I've seen just as many videos where I can come to the conclusion that the actions of the police were justified as I have seen thirty second clips that seem to showcase "police brutality". Just to reiterate, I don't [I]always[/I] agree with the police when they take physical action, but from what I've observed from not only reading accounts of these protests, but observing two of the protests myself, the actions of police officers are almost always justified.

[QUOTE=Falstad007;33385670]Again, a hyperbole. The gestapo dragged people off in the dead of night, and they were never seen again. Not to mention the absolutely [I]horiffic[/I] things they'd to in broad daylight. I also find it funny that people call low income areas "ghettos", where in Nazi Germany, ghettos are where the Jewish population were forcibly relocated to until they were slaughtered en mass. Anyways, that's off topic. [/QUOTE] again off topic, but technically a ghetto just refers to a place with low average income and a predominant ethnic minority as its population

[QUOTE=strayebyrd;33385698]again off topic, but technically a ghetto just refers to a place with low average income and a predominant ethnic minority as its population[/QUOTE] Ah, you're right, thanks for that. But which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I hate to be the guy to say this, but there are two sides to every story. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I'd really like to see some actual footage of the incident. All that video shows is her crying from the pepperspray. Once again, I'm not saying it didn't happen but there doesn't seem to be ANY evidence correlating with what she said happened. "I repeatedly asked Fox if she could provide any medical records that confirm the miscarriage or that the clash with police officers caused it. She did not have copies but says she asked her case worker at Harborview to provide her with records (I'll continue to ask for follow-up evidence and post if and when Fox provides those records). Harboview officials say they cannot provide any information, of course, except that medical records would mention those details. The Seattle Police Department did not immediately respond to request for comment."

Give it time and we'll all figure out. If she's lying, she's a bitch. If not, those officers deserve to be in the middle of a burning pole. For fucks sake even the thought of someone beating a pregnant woman makes me uneasy.

Do they even train cops in the US? Or do they take nutjobs off the street and give them pepper spray and a gun and tell them to enforce the law?

[QUOTE=username69;33385012]So i can kill my neighbor because i choose to? It's okay to kill someone if i voluntarily do it? Sure, whatever you say buddy.[/QUOTE] Really, do you own your neighbour? god all your posts I've read have been atrocious [editline]23rd November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=username69;33385266]The people are enemies of the state and traitors to their country. The police went lightly on them.[/QUOTE] you're a fucking troll or a complete cunt choose

[QUOTE=Thoughtless;33385946]Do they even train cops in the US? Or do they take nutjobs off the street and give them pepper spray and a gun and tell them to enforce the law?[/QUOTE] You have to go through a police academy. And in order to carry pepper spray and tasers, you must experience the pain first hand in training.

[QUOTE=WeekendWarrior;33384827]Because bathing in a police officer's blood isn't ridiculously [B]over the top[/B].[/QUOTE] [img]http://watchdownload.com/covers/258591.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=OvB;33386018]You have to go through a police academy. And in order to carry pepper spray and tasers, you must experience the pain first hand in training.[/QUOTE] Do they have any discrimination training, like knowing the difference between someone who's fleeing the crowd or attacking the police.