Pregnant Women Hit, Pepper-Sprayed By Police, Miscarries - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Drsalvador;33390274]TSA?[/QUOTE] Ah yes. TSA. She was pissed cause it was a random search. And they unpacked her bags and everything. But she just looks back at it an laughs.

When do people start protesting the police on top of everything? Would be interesting to see how the cops would react to a peaceful rally against police brutality. With guns?

[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33388989]Why so much police violence lately? Do protesters really look that threatening?[/QUOTE] I think it's more the size of the protests. Watching one of the videos from UC Davis I noticed that alot of the officers looked really nervous, which is understandable because while the cops did have pepper spray, pepper balls and batons, it'd be easy to over-whelm them with the number of bodies there.

Aww man, that hurts. That just hurts.

[quote=AceOfDivine]Why so much police violence lately? Do protesters really look that threatening?[/quote] As a whole, the sheer amount of violence present during the past couple months is pretty small. When thousands of people centralize in one location, violence is almost guaranteed, and when it does occur it'll be emphasized. The police reaction to these protests is completely incomparable to the severity of police brutality during protests in the 60's.

[QUOTE=MR-X;33390357]Facepunch has always had that "black and white mentality" there are no such things as shades of grey. Police are not allowed to be human and make errors, instead they should be robo-cops. Facepunch can always do better then then the police or anyone else because they're masters of the universe and have ultimate control over their own bodies and emotions.[/QUOTE] That reminds me, what exactly do you do for a living? Are you a cop or just work in the area of law enforcement? I can't help but wonder since you always seem quite knowledgeable about that sort of stuff.

[QUOTE=Aetna;33390704]As a whole, the sheer amount of violence present during the past couple months is pretty small. When thousands of people centralize in one location, violence is almost guaranteed, and when it does occur it'll be emphasized. The police reaction to these protests is completely incomparable to the severity of police brutality during protests in the 60's.[/QUOTE]The protests haven't ended yet so we can't really judge how much worse it will/not get.

It's still the wrong way to view the situation, people don't suddenly turn to criminals when they gather together, no matter how many there are. The situation turns tense when cops show up, stocked in full riot gear like they expect it to happen, but then they feel stupid for bringing all that equipment in, so they have to use it to not seem like they judged the situation wrong, for they are the hand of law. :) Hence, this kind of shit happens. Why are the police even there? If they are there just to shit their pants and to brutalize citizens, they should think over why they joined the force in the first place. I thought the whole police force is about protecting and serving the common folk, and this seems like the exact opposite of that. I also wonder why pepper spray use is permitted, as chemical weapons are banned in the CWC. [URL="http://medic.wikia.com/wiki/Pepper_spray_and_tear_gas"]Medicwiki[/URL] has this to say about pepper spray exposure: "Women who are or could be pregnant, or who are trying to get pregnant may be at risk of spontaneous abortion or increased risk of birth defects."

[QUOTE=Kelju;33390988] I also wonder why pepper spray use is permitted, as chemical weapons are banned in the CWC. [URL="http://medic.wikia.com/wiki/Pepper_spray_and_tear_gas"]Medicwiki[/URL] has this to say about pepper spray exposure: "Women who are or could be pregnant, or who are trying to get pregnant may be at risk of spontaneous abortion or increased risk of birth defects."[/QUOTE] Quote: [quote]Some people report feeling intense anger. This can be useful if you are prepared and able to focus it towards recovery and returning to the action.[/quote] Fucking wonderful. Police use a weapon that makes targets even more angry than they were.

There's a tumblr post floating around that claims she was 8 months pregnant. Why do people feel the need to spin things like this?

[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;33390710]That reminds me, what exactly do you do for a living? Are you a cop or just work in the area of law enforcement? I can't help but wonder since you always seem quite knowledgeable about that sort of stuff.[/QUOTE] Well, I worked for a local law enforcement agency for a little under a year. I was in the corrections field most of the time however due to the nature of the department i worked with a lot of patrol officers as well. My father did 20 years in the military and spend 10-15 years a military police officer that specialized in counter-terrorism, investigations, and various other things and the such and continues to serve in that field. I'm working on a criminal justice degree working my way in to the military or a local PD again. Most of my friends are ex-military, police or currently police. I know some of my posts show a bit of ignorance at times, but sometimes i can get really headstrong with certain things because of the mentality I faced on a daily basis and various other things. But i try my best to educate people so they can understand the workings and close that "gap" of "them and us" mentality. 98% of the time I keep a cool head and can be a very rational person but at times that small percent i can get a bit emotional. Needless to say I'm very passionate about that career path, it is fun working with new people on a daily basis and have crazy stories. Plus you get to help the community or a person in the long run for the most part. [QUOTE=Kelju;33390988] I also wonder why pepper spray use is permitted, as chemical weapons are banned in the CWC. [URL="http://medic.wikia.com/wiki/Pepper_spray_and_tear_gas"]Medicwiki[/URL] has this to say about pepper spray exposure: "Women who are or could be pregnant, or who are trying to get pregnant may be at risk of spontaneous abortion or increased risk of birth defects."[/QUOTE] OC is used and deployed all the time, it is extremely common place due to the fact is really takes the fight out of people for the most part and makes resisting arrest hard. Most of these warning labels are for liability issues due to the company or w/e. I'VE never heard a case of someone miscarrying due to OC. Not saying it can't happen, but I've never seen a case of that being so. I would say people get more damage to their body from pollution then they would OC. For the most part OC is a food-grade product (I wouldn't fucking eat it though) and the only thing that may cause problems is the propellant, but OC has really changes and improved for the most part. However it isn't to say that It can hurt someone badly, but OC spray is such a umbrella term because there are various versions of it and strengths. I think it is more important to look at the quality of the actual can and its effectiveness. For example if you used bear spray that could kill someone. I mean look at the various types of spray. [img]http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/safariland-defense-technologye284a2-first-defensec2ae-oc-aerosol-line.jpg[/img] You got small/personal, duty size, then you got "riot can" and you got one that looks like a fire extinguisher (which is used in mostly prisons and corrections because it can be hooked up to long hoses and flood cells that are being barricaded, hose will go though the bean hole because you never stick your hand in one, that is a good way to get stabbed or taken hostage. or to flood entire housing units that are rioting.) The way they're propelled is vastly different too and what they're mixed with.. you got water based, oil based, foam, etc.

[QUOTE=Aetna;33385449]Where's Zeke when you need him?[/QUOTE] His post gave me a miscarriage so I couldn't reply

[QUOTE=Zeke129;33391546]His post gave me a miscarriage so I couldn't reply[/QUOTE] Sure Zeke, your posts are hilarious totally by accident.

Mr-X, what sanctions could an officer face if he disobeyed orders to use force, if he judges that the situation doesn't call for it?

[QUOTE=Kelju;33391620]Mr-X, what sanctions could an officer face if he disobeyed orders to use force, if he judges that the situation doesn't call for it?[/QUOTE] Man i can't tell you how hard it is. There is so much that goes in to a fucking decision and you only have a split second to make it. It depends on the situation, if you're given an order and you don't do it and it jeopardizes the safety of your fellow officers you can get in a lot of trouble, not only to you lose that trust, you can get reprimanded and even fired. sometimes you have to put a side personal beliefs and do what you're told. As long as you're following department policy and the order given you can't be liable for anything. You may feel like shit, but you're safe when it comes to legal issues. There is a time and place to do things and show how you feel. Best thing to do is just talk to your direct supervisor and then go up the chain of command. Let it be known you didn't approve. I mean a lot of people flip shit when bad things happen or it looks bad, but all reports are filed and dozens of people look over them. If something is wrong they look in to even deeper and provide an investigation. If a crime happens and you do it under the color of your department you don't really have the right to remain silent, or anything like that. Its a tough decision, you can only go with what information you know then and there. IF you got 100 angry protesters and it is only 10 of you holding the line and you say "fuck this i don't agree" and you back off and it opens that weak spot for protesters and someone gets hurt (officer, or subjects you're protecting) you're going to be liable. Its just a tricky situation, there is no right or wrong answers or questions, you got to do what can be justified at that time.

[QUOTE=MR-X;33391472]Well, I worked for a local law enforcement agency for a little under a year. I was in the corrections field most of the time however due to the nature of the department i worked with a lot of patrol officers as well. My father did 20 years in the military and spend 10-15 years a military police officer that specialized in counter-terrorism, investigations, and various other things and the such and continues to serve in that field. I'm working on a criminal justice degree working my way in to the military or a local PD again. Most of my friends are ex-military, police or currently police. I know some of my posts show a bit of ignorance at times, but sometimes i can get really headstrong with certain things because of the mentality I faced on a daily basis and various other things. But i try my best to educate people so they can understand the workings and close that "gap" of "them and us" mentality. 98% of the time I keep a cool head and can be a very rational person but at times that small percent i can get a bit emotional. Needless to say I'm very passionate about that career path, it is fun working with new people on a daily basis and have crazy stories. Plus you get to help the community or a person in the long run for the most part. OC is used and deployed all the time, it is extremely common place due to the fact is really takes the fight out of people for the most part and makes resisting arrest hard. Most of these warning labels are for liability issues due to the company or w/e. I'VE never heard a case of someone miscarrying due to OC. Not saying it can't happen, but I've never seen a case of that being so. I would say people get more damage to their body from pollution then they would OC. For the most part OC is a food-grade product (I wouldn't fucking eat it though) and the only thing that may cause problems is the propellant, but OC has really changes and improved for the most part. However it isn't to say that It can hurt someone badly, but OC spray is such a umbrella term because there are various versions of it and strengths. I think it is more important to look at the quality of the actual can and its effectiveness. For example if you used bear spray that could kill someone. I mean look at the various types of spray. [img]http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/safariland-defense-technologye284a2-first-defensec2ae-oc-aerosol-line.jpg[/img] You got small/personal, duty size, then you got "riot can" and you got one that looks like a fire extinguisher (which is used in mostly prisons and corrections because it can be hooked up to long hoses and flood cells that are being barricaded, hose will go though the bean hole because you never stick your hand in one, that is a good way to get stabbed or taken hostage. or to flood entire housing units that are rioting.) The way they're propelled is vastly different too and what they're mixed with.. you got water based, oil based, foam, etc.[/QUOTE] Thanks for the informative post! And I do not think anyone here thinks it was only the pepper spray that caused the miscarriage. If the cops did cause this miscarriage, it was probably from hitting her in the stomach.

[QUOTE=person11;33391762]Thanks for the informative post! And I do not think anyone here thinks it was only the pepper spray that caused the miscarriage. If the cops did cause this miscarriage, it was probably from hitting her in the stomach.[/QUOTE] The weird thing about that though is that she went to the hospital the same day and an echo didn't show anything wrong.

[QUOTE=Autumn;33388918]would you not be worried/panicked when at a supposedly peaceful protest police start spraying people with pepper spray? you know what she should have done? she should have carried a big red placard with a downwards pointing arrow saying "PREGNANT WOMAN HERE" so that police would have known she was pregnant. i think you're severely underestimating how difficult it would have been to the officers to pick her out as being any different to anyone else in that crowd. [editline]22nd November 2011[/editline] uh okay. i thought you could at least hold a decent discussion but now i'm having my doubts.[/QUOTE] Was the crowd she in peaceful?

I think it is unlikely and people are just pulling at strings, i think if you got kicked in the stomach you wouldn't just miscarry later. I think it would be a more instant. If it did happen because of the officer I don't think his life should be ruined, something should happen ,but they shouldn't serve his head on a silver platter. It was a tragic accident. as i said, there is more to it and I think she is doing it for the cause.

[QUOTE=JWJ;33382932]oh god, nothing that happened before this was shit compared to this. Now this shit is going to [b]EXPLODE[/b].[/QUOTE] except the vet who had his skull cracked open and brain damage? and the other vet who had his ribs broken and a ruptured spleen?

[QUOTE=Mattk50;33391901]except the vet who had his skull cracked open and brain damage? and the other vet who had his ribs broken and a ruptured spleen?[/QUOTE] The vet got brain damage?

[QUOTE=BldrGyMnGy;33388289]Don't swing the term police state around, especially when we're not one.[/QUOTE] I see the brainwashing drugs in the water supply have got to you!

Since when can pepperspray even affect unborn children? I don't think it can, also, a pregnant woman shouldn't be at places where the cops are pepper-spraying everyone, she shouldn't have been there.

It could also be that some of the chemicals remained in her system and got to the fetus after some time, it's a weapon that hasn't really been researched enough, but is utilized a lot for it's ease of use and effectiveness. I've been exposed to a bit when some rent a cop decided to use a whole can against a Russian guy who looked suspicious at 4 am at the train station, I was around two meters away and couldn't see and mostly vomited and teared for half an hour or so. Even other people in the train cabin became irritated and wanted me to get off. I also strangely coincidentally developed bronchitis a couple weeks later, that lasted for 5 weeks and antibiotics only gave me warts all over my body, and it turned out that I'm allergic to penicillin. Imo, it shouldn't be used, at all, ever, anywhere. Not even on animals or during a prison riot. It's a chemical weapon, potentially lethal, and as such is supposed to be banned from use. It's just too convenient to give up, I guess.

Okay, not that I agree with what I am saying but if you all say this is murder than why do most of you also say abortion isn't?

[QUOTE=Staneh;33392086]Since when can pepperspray even affect unborn children? I don't think it can, also, a pregnant woman shouldn't be at places where the cops are pepper-spraying everyone, she shouldn't have been there.[/QUOTE] The lethal amount of capsaicin tested on mice is 47.2 mg/kg. A 3 month of fetus could weight only some tens of grams, and gets everything into it's system that the mother eats/smokes/is exposed to in some other way. I can see it happen quite easily, it's just that pregnant women aren't pepper sprayed that often, I guess.

I'm rating heart for every post hoodoo rated dumb. You'll never stop me hoodoo! [editline]22nd November 2011[/editline] Oh god I just realized he rated this thread winner. I really don't know what to say to that.

[QUOTE=MR-X;33391858]I think it is unlikely and people are just pulling at strings, i think if you got kicked in the stomach you wouldn't just miscarry later. I think it would be a more instant. If it did happen because of the officer I don't think his life should be ruined, something should happen ,but they shouldn't serve his head on a silver platter. It was a tragic accident. as i said, there is more to it and I think she is doing it for the cause.[/QUOTE] Faking deaths isn't uncommon in nonviolent protests.

[QUOTE=ChilColdCoolaid;33392359]I'm rating heart for every post hoodoo rated dumb. You'll never stop me hoodoo! [editline]22nd November 2011[/editline] Oh god I just realized he rated this thread winner. I really don't know what to say to that.[/QUOTE] He's the definition of a lost cause, while Glaber atleast still have small shreds of humanity and common sense left in him.

[QUOTE=Dolton;33392148]Okay, not that I agree with what I am saying but if you all say this is murder than why do most of you also say abortion isn't?[/QUOTE] Because the mother wanted to have the child and was expecting it? Personally I'm pro-life, but I believe the choice to have an abortion is ultimately the mother's.