• Germany’s army is so under-equipped that it used broomsticks instead of machine guns
    64 replies, posted
My parents said they used to do the same thing in the Canadian army back in the '80s/'90s. When there was no budget for blanks on training, they'd pretend to be holding a gun and yell "BUDGET CUTS! BUDGET CUTS!" to simulate the gunfire.
[quote]Özdemir said last September. According to him, Europe's armies only have one tenth of the strength of the U.S. Army, although they cost half of the defense budget of the United States.[/quote] refreshing, someone says the US's bloated defense budget is actually efficient
[QUOTE=Sableye;47191007]refreshing, someone says the US's bloated defense budget is actually efficient[/QUOTE] it has to be because europe somehow got it into their heads that they dont need militaries because we will save them
[QUOTE=Telecaster;47191052]it has to be because europe somehow got it into their heads that they dont need militaries because we will save them[/QUOTE] yeah, as soon as you guys are finished with your big macs'. anyway i thought lots of armies did this where they use props as training things
[QUOTE=Impact1986;47186098]Following some scandals including NSA spying on USAs own allies, no wonder they begin to be anti-American[/QUOTE] Again this is hilarious to me, Europeans pretending they were victimized by the NSA. Your governments actively participated in these programs with the US. The level of cognitive dissonance over spying on the part of Europeans is frightening, especially in light of recent terror attacks. How do you think your intelligence agencies monitor domestic and foreign extremists? Magic? [QUOTE]Neumann’s claims are supported by revelations about U.S.-German intelligence collaboration. According to Der Spiegel, German intelligence agencies have been using a program called XKeyScore to collect metadata within Germany. Last April a high-ranking delegation of German intelligence officials met with officials from the NSA to discuss cooperation. [B]The Washington Post reported that in 2008, German intelligence accidentally sent American intelligence 300 phone numbers of American citizens, raising suspicions that the numbers were being tapped[/B]. This, combined with Neumann’s accusation, lends credence to the sentiment expressed by National Intelligence Director James Clapper when the Merkel-cellphone scandal broke: Everyone is doing it. The NSA is just better at it than anyone else.[/QUOTE] Source: [URL="http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2014/02/angela_merkel_surveillance_proposal_germany_is_hypocritical_about_the_nsa.2.html"]Slate[/URL] [QUOTE] Newspaper reports of mass surveillance by the NSA on the citizens of France, Spain and Italy — which had drawn public statements of outrage from those country’s leaders — were all back-to-front, they said. [B]The millions of phone records had not been collected by the NSA alone, but by “foreign partners” which, officials later told the Wall Street Journal, included the French and Spanish intelligence who were working with the US[/B]. The phone records were also not of French, Spanish or Italian citizens, officials said, but from countries outside the EU. Neither Snowden, who stole the documents, nor the newspapers that printed them had understood what they were looking at. “To be perfectly clear, this is not information that we collected on European citizens,” said Gen Alexander. “It represents information that we and our Nato allies have collected in defence of our countries and in support of military operations.” Back on Capitol Hill, [B]Mr Clapper was equally scathing, replying “absolutely” when asked if he was sure that European countries had spied on the US and its leaders in the past[/B]. “[B]Some of this reminds me a lot of the classic movie Casablanca,” he added. “ 'My God, there’s gambling going on here?[/B]’ You know, it’s the same kind of thing.” [/QUOTE] Source: [URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10422998/The-spying-game-Europe-accused-of-hypocrisy-over-US-intelligence-disclosures.html"]The Telegraph[/URL] Additional Reading: [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/top-intelligence-officials-called-to-testify-on-nsa-surveillance-programs/2013/10/29/e9e9c250-40b7-11e3-a751-f032898f2dbc_story.html"]Washington Post[/URL]
[QUOTE=Telecaster;47191052]it has to be because europe somehow got it into their heads that they dont need militaries because we will save them[/QUOTE] I don't think Europe will need "saving" any time soon. Having a huge military budget in peacetime is silly. Sure, you can use it for intervention, but if you aren't interested in that, what's the point?
I guess we should sell less weapons to other countries then?
[QUOTE=Chi_DE;47191510]I guess we should sell less weapons to other countries then?[/QUOTE] Sell more. You need the money.
[QUOTE=Srillo;47186923] And you tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Yes, the US has a large defense budget, the US also has a large budget period. Only 19% of that 3.3 trillion dollars goes towards defense, of which includes the money we spend to effectively upkeep European defense and another significant portion goes to paying personnel (benefits included). If your theory is true, then the US should be on the verge of a economic collapse right now. The Iraq war has been over since 2010, and Afghanistan has drawn down to considerably low levels. Yet here we are, growing at 3% a year, exporting over a trillion dollars of non-war related goods and with market surging to record highs. I will concede that the US could do with defense fat trimming, there exists a lot of graft and bloat there.[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States#21st_century_wars[/url] Your country has been in a perpetual state of war ever since its inception. There hasn't been a moment in which you've stopped mass producing weapons and training soldiers. Do you think that now the war in Iraq is "over" and you've "pulled out" of Afghanistan, you'll stop producing drones and bombs and weapons and ammo, designing new planes and tanks and all other manner of killing machines? Do you even realize how many people are employed in military institutions in the US? How about companies like Lockheed Martin and Boeing? And what would happen to your economy if you were to suddenly shrink the military sector? Why do you think your military budget has consistently stayed in the hundreds of billions? The only reason Europe relies on the US for defence is because you're the only country on Earth that actively spends so much money on its military. You played yourself in this position of power and influence over the past 50 years. Why are you complaining about it now?
I seriously don't get the mentality of only wanting to produce materiel and train soldiers only after a conflict has started, it seems like horrible planning. Peace is probably the best time to train your forces and build up your equipment stores, you can allot extra time for training to be comprehensive and of high quality, and you can focus on producing what you need at a higher quality than possible during wartime considering there is no pressing issue to deal with right away. Maybe I'm wrong, but only building up military once it begins to be needed seems really really shortsighted as far as having proper planning for the future goes.
[QUOTE=Stopper;47192184][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States#21st_century_wars[/url] Your country has been in a perpetual state of war ever since its inception. There hasn't been a moment in which you've stopped mass producing weapons and training soldiers. Do you think that now the war in Iraq is "over" and you've "pulled out" of Afghanistan, you'll stop producing drones and bombs and weapons and ammo, designing new planes and tanks and all other manner of killing machines? Do you even realize how many people are employed in military institutions in the US? How about companies like Lockheed Martin and Boeing? And what would happen to your economy if you were to suddenly shrink the military sector? Why do you think your military budget has consistently stayed in the hundreds of billions? The only reason Europe relies on the US for defence is because you're the only country on Earth that actively spends so much money on its military. You played yourself in this position of power and influence over the past 50 years. Why are you complaining about it now?[/QUOTE] The US didn't keep a large standing military in peace time until after WWII. Before then, we were largely demobilized. So we have not been in a "perpetual state of war since our inception".
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47192237]The US didn't keep a large standing military in peace time until after WWII. Before then, we were largely demobilized. So we have not been in a "perpetual state of war since our inception".[/QUOTE] Also, comparing a young nation who was founded on a literally brand new continent that every major power was trying to snag a piece of and was born out of an armed revolution is silly if you're comparing it to countries long established before another continent was even conceivable. The early history of Europe and Asia is just as dark and bloody.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;47192224]I seriously don't get the mentality of only wanting to produce materiel and train soldiers only after a conflict has started, it seems like horrible planning. Peace is probably the best time to train your forces and build up your equipment stores, you can allot extra time for training to be comprehensive and of high quality, and you can focus on producing what you need at a higher quality than possible during wartime considering there is no pressing issue to deal with right away. Maybe I'm wrong, but only building up military once it begins to be needed seems really really shortsighted as far as having proper planning for the future goes.[/QUOTE] Depends on whether you plan on having a bit of war or not. I don't think anyone in Europe finds it likely that there will be a large scale war on European soil (meaning EU/NATO countries) in the near future.
[QUOTE=MattSif;47186521]Not trying to seem like a pro-NSA post here or anything but stop acting so naive, every single country in the world is spying on each other. We just got caught, acting like this is somehow an isolated incident is laughable. [url]http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150204/1017786738.html[/url] (If there's a better link to the story I posted someone please post it, not sure how reliable that site is tbh)[/QUOTE] A big part of the problem with invasions of privacy is that people have a very popular culture influenced view on spying and especially on organisations like CIA. It's not some game and the world is not being saved behind our backs at the expense of a few necessary evils like in a comic book universe.
[QUOTE=Ignhelper;47185493]Whoever leaked those is gonna spend a good amount of time in Military Prison.[/QUOTE] Hell to the no, my friend! You seem to have a backwards view of modern day Germany, if you truly think that.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;47192283]Also, comparing a young nation who was founded on a literally brand new continent that every major power was trying to snag a piece of and was born out of an armed revolution is silly if you're comparing it to countries long established before another continent was even conceivable. The early history of Europe and Asia is just as dark and bloody.[/QUOTE] So the US is like in it's rowdy pre teen phase now
[QUOTE=Telecaster;47191052]it has to be because europe somehow got it into their heads that they dont need militaries because we will save them[/QUOTE] America's so cute :3 Still thinking it's a superpower <3 Almost adorable.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47192237]The US didn't keep a large standing military in peace time until after WWII. Before then, we were largely demobilized. So we have not been in a "perpetual state of war since our inception".[/QUOTE] US barely had a standing military until after the War Between the States. We needed one to keep the South from seceding again
[QUOTE=Moustacheman;47197422]US barely had a standing military until after the War Between the States. We needed one to keep the South from seceding again[/QUOTE] That was more of an occupational force than a "standing army" in the sense that they had no purpose at the time. Those guys had a job.
[QUOTE=Baron von Hax;47197413]America's so cute :3 Still thinking it's a superpower <3 Almost adorable.[/QUOTE] lmao while Europe and the UK are getting overrun by Muslims we are still the worlds biggest producer of military technology, technology, entertainment, and higher education so you can just fuck right off while the UK does absolutely nothing
[QUOTE=Telecaster;47197540]lmao while Europe and the UK are getting overrun by Muslims we are still the worlds biggest producer of military technology, technology, entertainment, and higher education so you can just fuck right off while the UK does absolutely nothing[/QUOTE] UK has good television though. UK wins.
Please, stop the dick waving guys. [QUOTE]30 percent lacked general-purpose machine guns,[/QUOTE] This is kinda an eye opener for me, I always thought that Germany had a relatively well equipped force. They have many indigenous manufacturers, HK, SIG-Sauer etc. Our spending on defense is like 1% yet we manage to kit everybody (even the reserve) with modern, expensive kit. I'm sure Germany's military is like 5 or 6 times ours, but still. They don't even need to import their weapons.
[QUOTE=Impact1986;47186098]Following some scandals including NSA spying on USAs own allies, no wonder they begin to be anti-American[/QUOTE] There have been equal scandals of the UK and Germany doing the same shit. [editline]23rd February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Mabus;47197632]Please, stop the dick waving guys. This is kinda an eye opener for me, I always thought that Germany had a relatively well equipped force. They have many indigenous manufacturers, HK, SIG-Sauer etc. Our spending on defense is like 1% yet we manage to kit everybody (even the reserve) with modern, expensive kit. I'm sure Germany's military is like 5 or 6 times ours, but still. They don't even need to import their weapons.[/QUOTE] You can see why the US is growing more and more annoyed with the whole NATO situation.
[QUOTE=Telecaster;47197540]lmao while Europe and the UK are getting overrun by Muslims we are still the worlds biggest producer of military technology, technology, entertainment, and higher education so you can just fuck right off while the UK does absolutely nothing[/QUOTE] ikr, according to your lot, Birmingham is a muslim-only city! News to me, considering I live right next to it. Muslims probably don't go to America because of the fear of being killed. Rightly so since you're all so busy killing eachother.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47197441]That was more of an occupational force than a "standing army" in the sense that they had no purpose at the time. Those guys had a job.[/QUOTE] More or less, yes, but the U.S. barely had a real army until then. Hell, the highest rank you could reach was only Lt. General until after the war.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;47192341]Depends on whether you plan on having a bit of war or not. I don't think anyone in Europe finds it likely that there will be a large scale war on European soil (meaning EU/NATO countries) in the near future.[/QUOTE] This is the problem; if every war could be expected far in advance, then no one would have any reason to have a military. But they can't. How many people expected Russia to attack Ukraine after the pro-Russian government was ousted? Why take the risk when there are still large, powerful, and unstable powers nearby that could start a war? Is it because "oh well, the US has a big military, they can come save us before the fighting actually gets to our borders; nevermind those countries on or near the border with Russia", or are the powers of europe just that complacent?
This is interesting in my eyes, because the Germans during WWII did this, especially along the beaches of the allied invasions along France. There were places that were under-staffed and under-supplied. So they cut telephone poles and stuck them out of cannon bunkers and black-painted broom handles from machine gun nests. All in attempt to deter landings. It sort of worked, too. Until the enemy got wise. Some things never change :v:
[QUOTE=Baron von Hax;47197727]ikr, according to your lot, Birmingham is a muslim-only city! News to me, considering I live right next to it. Muslims probably don't go to America because of the fear of being killed. Rightly so since you're all so busy killing eachother.[/QUOTE] I like how you think the British empire is still a thing. Also, if we aren't a superpower then what the fuck is a superpower?
they need less money in the broom department because this and more in the fashion one because [T]http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Swearing+Ceremony+German+Recruits+y99Hpq-gO6Fl.jpg[/T] Doesnt look nearly good as this [T]http://www.grosser-generalstab.de/reichswehr/img/teleg006.jpg[/T] Or this [T]http://s2.postimg.org/eo0b9nuop/prussian1898035_1.jpg[/T]
[QUOTE=Hauptmann;47185921]That can't be worse than Belgian army. We don't have enough money for ammo, and we're in a lack of toilet paper. Our soldiers are forced to shout "Bang, bang" during the trainings :v:[/QUOTE] Lot's of armies do that. [editline]24th February 2015[/editline] No point in using ammo (be it blanks or live) when training something that can be done without it.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.