• Turkey Experienced Failed Military Coup
    1,776 replies, posted
[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50721228]Then that's your opinion, which you are free to express. But in my opinion, noone does.[/QUOTE] Someone was to do something brutally horrific to a family member or someone close, you would be happy with them sitting in a cell knowing they still exist in the world and will be free to walk the Earth and repeat such sin? Knob [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming." - Pascall))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Royalpain;50721249]Someone was to do something brutally horrific to a family member or someone close, you would be happy with them sitting in a cell knowing they still exist in the world and will be free to walk the Earth and repeat such sin? Knob[/QUOTE] There's literally nothing wrong with someone personally not wanting a murderer like that to die.
Well, it will get worse now. I don't think there were any overly good outcomes out of this.
[QUOTE=Royalpain;50721249]Someone was to do something brutally horrific to a family member or someone close, you would be happy with them sitting in a cell knowing they still exist in the world and will be free to walk the Earth and repeat such sin? Knob[/QUOTE] Yes I'd be quite happy considering this whole "justice system" thing we have going so that we don't act like babarians
[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50721196]Noone deserves to die.[/QUOTE] yet everybody does
All I can say is when he starts his reign of conquest the tone is going to go to shit extremely fast. I mean he practically has a clear path to the northern Levant areas with them under non-state control.
What is this was all a set up for him to just take over full control?
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50721394]Everybody talking about executions, nobody is gonna get executed. "You say people are talking about it though?" Yes, just like everytime a rapist or a child molester makes national headlines, people are talking 'bout it. Knee-jerk. Prison life isnt fun for military personnel, especially coupers, but they wont die. Ironically, '80 coup had little amount of executions relatively but was renowned to have people disappear under custody.[/QUOTE] They are considering reintroducing the death penalty. The masses of Erdogan supporters would love to see the soldiers killed for betraying "democracy".
[QUOTE=gokiyono;50721276]Yes I'd be quite happy considering this whole "justice system" thing we have going so that we don't act like babarians[/QUOTE] Yeah and how many times has that system failed many people
[QUOTE=MR-X;50721363]What is this was all a set up for him to just take over full control?[/QUOTE] Seems that way. Time for a new theocratic islamic state...
[QUOTE=Royalpain;50721449]Yeah and how many times has that system failed many people[/QUOTE] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution"]Quite a few[/URL]. But I'm not really sure I see your point here
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50720971]"I fully support a military coup against a democratic government if the democratic government doesn't appeal to my ideals" is such a retarded policy to hold.[/QUOTE] isn't this what the Second Amendment is literally about
Turkey is such a shitty fucking liberal-democracy, we only warmed up to it out of anti-communism. Erdogan represents a betrayal of not only liberal values but as far as I can tell kemalist ones as well. How he continues to be enabled by the West, being a part of NATO and can blackmail the EU, or heads a nationalist revolutionary party like the AKP boggles me. The military was the last hope as the opposition seems too ideologically and demographically divided.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;50721480]isn't this what the Second Amendment is literally about[/QUOTE] No, the second amendment is about having a well armed and regulated militia to protect the people from illegitimate governments (England).
[QUOTE=RockyTV;50721233]I hope it isn't true what sources are saying (that the coup was faked by Erdogan just so he can get more power). If, unfortunately, it is true, I guess ~200 people died and ~2000 were injured for nothing. It's such a disaster.[/QUOTE] Everything he has done, he had the power to do before this coup began. People say he staged this to shake-up the military leadership but the fact is that he was already gradually doing that in the past few years anyways. Despite accusations of being a dictator, he hasn't actually done anything to that effect; eg he hasn't thrown out the law and made his own without parliamentary approval. Besides, if it were staged, it must be the best staged coup in recorded history, as all it would take is just [i]one[/i] person with inside knowledge to expose it as staged. Also worth pointing out that this was done by middle-ranking officers who Erdogan probably never had concerns about due to their relative lack of power. Don't get me wrong. Erdogan is absolutely steering Turkey in the completely wrong direction, and many of his stances are questionable not just from a western perspective. But I seriously doubt this was staged, and it was for the best that the coup failed. It is absolutely incompatible with the values of democracy and modern governance for a military to attempt to overthrow a democratically-elected government, no matter how benevolent the military may claim to be (and historically, such juntas are rarely if ever benevolent). Look at it this way: say the coup succeeded. You would then have a majority of Turks, supporters of Erdogan (he was voted in with 52% of the vote in the 2014 election) realise that their preferred, democratically-elected government and president had been overthrown by an undemocratic junta. Civil war would break out. Some people here are saying 'but the military could reinstate a secular government'. [b]How???[/b] By subverting the will of the people? As soon as the junta reinstated responsible government, the Turkish people would vote for the same damn thing as they'd get from Erdogan, so you had a nasty civil war for nothing. Changing the structure of government doesn't change the political dispositions of the people who elect the government.
Following this twitter [url]https://twitter.com/DEFCONWS[/url] I do not know if it is reliable but, they're tweeting [QUOTE]#BREAKING The white house has convened a national security meeting. #Turkish President has said #Turkey is not a friend to US[/QUOTE]
isnt erdogan the better of the two when its either him or the military dictatorship?
[QUOTE=Xephio;50721214]i would be extremely fucking surprised if not all 2800 coup soldiers were either beheaded or tortured to death[/QUOTE] When was the last time Turkish authorities beheaded 2800 soldiers? Supporting a military coup without the support of any [b]opposition[/b] party is one thing, thinking that there is going to be the wholesale execution of regiments of conscripts is ridiculous.
p.s killing erdogan wont fucking solve anything
Reading now that Turkish government is cutting the power for and now closing the Incirlik airforce base used by the US to bomb IS, and the base also holds nukes. [url]http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article23182362.ab[/url]
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;50721480]isn't this what the Second Amendment is literally about[/QUOTE] No. It's not, that's what pro-NRA jackoffs have convinced people of. The 2nd amendment was to establish protective forces for the states in the event of war or an invasion, since America did not have a standing army at the time. Let's not go down that rabbit hole in this thread though.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50721546]BREAKING: Turkey declared war on USA /s Maybe it is because Incirlik is used by Turkish AF too since it is on Turkish soil, and F16s bombed the fuck out of Ankara yesterday evening? Calm down.[/QUOTE] whoops, didn't mean to click on the star. Also the fact that F16's bombed Ankara doesn't mean anything. As far as I know it was the pro-Erdogan army who used those, not USA.
[QUOTE=sb27;50721529]Everything he has done, he had the power to do before this coup began. People say he staged this to shake-up the military leadership but the fact is that he was already gradually doing that in the past few years anyways. Despite accusations of being a dictator, he hasn't actually done anything to that effect; eg he hasn't thrown out the law and made his own without parliamentary approval. Besides, if it were staged, it must be the best staged coup in recorded history, as all it would take is just [i]one[/i] person with inside knowledge to expose it as staged. Also worth pointing out that this was done by middle-ranking officers who Erdogan probably never had concerns about due to their relative lack of power. Don't get me wrong. Erdogan is absolutely steering Turkey in the completely wrong direction, and many of his stances are questionable not just from a western perspective. But I seriously doubt this was staged, and it was for the best that the coup failed. It is absolutely incompatible with the values of democracy and modern governance for a military to attempt to overthrow a democratically-elected government, no matter how benevolent the military may claim to be (and historically, such juntas are rarely if ever benevolent). Look at it this way: say the coup succeeded. You would then have a majority of Turks, supporters of Erdogan (he was voted in with 52% of the vote in the 2014 election) realise that their preferred, democratically-elected government and president had been overthrown by an undemocratic junta. Civil war would break out. Some people here are saying 'but the military could reinstate a secular government'. [b]How???[/b] By subverting the will of the people? As soon as the junta reinstated responsible government, the Turkish people would vote for the same damn thing as they'd get from Erdogan, so you had a nasty civil war for nothing. Changing the structure of government doesn't change the political dispositions of the people who elect the government.[/QUOTE] Having political power to do and actually doing is not the same imagine all these thousands of soldiers on the brink of a coup detat... now imagine erdogan doing all the stuff he does as response to the coup but BEFORE the coup the coup would have happened and probably succeeded, because the cause would be so much more clear and so much more would support it.
[QUOTE=343N;50721535]isnt erdogan the better of the two when its either him or the military dictatorship?[/QUOTE] When one of them was elected in by a majority of the electorate, which Erdogan was, then yeah Erdogan is absolutely and always better than even the most benevolent of military dictatorships. Erdogan may be a power-hungry cunt, but that's not an excuse for a group with guns to subvert the democratic will of the people.
[QUOTE=343N;50721537]p.s killing erdogan wont fucking solve anything[/QUOTE]It makes sure his cult of personality has to die too. When the head of a cult of personality dies, the system collapses because it literally exists because of the figurehead. Sure, he may have ideological allies who will try to take power, but they'll lack the support he had and the former supporters will be divided, especially if you remove top allies as well. Killing him would have solved quite a few problems with one stroke. [editline]16th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=sb27;50721557]When one of them was elected in by a majority of the electorate, which Erdogan was, then yeah Erdogan is absolutely and always better than even the most benevolent of military dictatorships. Erdogan may be a power-hungry cunt, but that's not an excuse for a group with guns to subvert the democratic will of the people.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it is. The "democratic will of the people" is a garbage defense for the objective bad that is Erdogan's reign. It doesn't matter if the powers that be have the support of the people if those powers are still awful.
Man, how convenient everything seems to be for Ergodan. :tinfoil::tinfoil:
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;50721527]No, the second amendment is about having a well armed and regulated militia to protect the people from illegitimate governments (England).[/QUOTE] The second amendment is for protecting yourself from a tyrannical government mostly, so turkey is a perfect example of a situation where the second amendment would be helpful right now.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;50721556]Having political power to do and actually doing is not the same imagine all these thousands of soldiers on the brink of a coup detat... now imagine erdogan doing all the stuff he does as response to the coup but BEFORE the coup the coup would have happened and probably succeeded, because the cause would be so much more clear and so much more would support it.[/QUOTE] That may be dandy, but it's still ignoring the fact that this must then be the best staged coup in recorded history if it was staged. All it takes is literally one person to spill the beans and the whole thing is exposed. But not a single soul has done so in this day of social media and whistleblowing.
Here's a video that explains the coup, this guy is great at geopolitics. For those that are still confused [video=youtube;-wXyFShqwBk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wXyFShqwBk[/video]
[QUOTE=sb27;50721557] Erdogan may be a power-hungry cunt, but that's not an excuse for a group with guns to subvert the democratic will of the people.[/QUOTE] [quote]Well, I would say that, as long-term institutions, I am totally against dictatorships. But a dictatorship may be a necessary system for a transitional period. At times it is necessary for a country to have, for a time, some form or other of dictatorial power. As you will understand, it is possible for a dictator to govern in a liberal way. And it is also possible for a democracy to govern with a total lack of liberalism. Personally I prefer a liberal dictator to democratic government lacking liberalism. - Friedrich Hayek[/quote]
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