• Turkey Experienced Failed Military Coup
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[QUOTE=moffe;50721565]The second amendment is for protecting yourself from a tyrannical government mostly, so turkey is a perfect example of a situation where the second amendment would be helpful right now.[/QUOTE] False, its to defend against an alien government forcing themselves onto the USA, the USA did not have an army and relied on its "armed and regulated militia" to do the defending. [editline]16th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=sb27;50721566]That may be dandy, but it's still ignoring the fact that this must then be the best staged coup in recorded history if it was staged. All it takes is literally one person to spill the beans and the whole thing is exposed. But not a single soul has done so in this day of social media and whistleblowing.[/QUOTE] Every coup is staged, im just saying Erdogan is the big winner here, the changes he is making right now as we speak were not possible for him politically before the coup. people dont seem to realise the coup is not yet over... erdogan is taking over the current political system as we speak.
[QUOTE=sb27;50721566]That may be dandy, but it's still ignoring the fact that this must then be the best staged coup in recorded history if it was staged. All it takes is literally one person to spill the beans and the whole thing is exposed. But not a single soul has done so in this day of social media and whistleblowing.[/QUOTE] actually with most of the involved being conscripts thinking it was an excercise apparently you'd only need 50-100 officers in on the actual plot itself to stage it
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50721546]BREAKING: [b]Turkey declared war on USA /s[_b] Maybe it is because Incirlik is used by Turkish AF too since it is on Turkish soil, and F16s bombed the fuck out of Ankara yesterday evening? Calm down.[/QUOTE] Source? Or did you just make that up?
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;50721581]False, its to defend against an alien government forcing themselves onto the USA, the USA did not have an army and relied on its "armed and regulated militia" to do the defending. [editline]16th July 2016[/editline] Every coup is staged, im just saying Erdogan is the big winner here, the changes he is making right now as we speak were not possible for him politically before the coup. people dont seem to realise the coup is not yet over... erdogan is taking over the current political system as we speak.[/QUOTE] is maintaining the security of a free state not in line with fighting against a tyrannical one that previously was a free state?
Not to be a conspiracy dude, but considering how shitty this Coup was executed, would it be a possibility that Erdogan possibly forced this to happen just to further his shitty agenda. Because Erdogan seems more happy that this happen to his country.
[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;50721639]Not to be a conspiracy dude, but considering how shitty this Coup was executed, would it be a possibility that Erdogan possibly forced this to happen just to further his shitty agenda. Because Erdogan seems more happy that this happen to his country.[/QUOTE] I don't think so, too many moving parts in this day and age of social media and information for it to not leak out.
Besides, would 1500+ wounded and 250+ deaths be part of his plan then? Not sure if he is that much of a monster
[QUOTE=darth-veger;50721715]Besides, would 1500+ wounded and 250+ deaths be part of his plan then? Not sure if he is that much of a monster[/QUOTE] He's the one who called upon the people for riots against military equipment.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50720971]"I fully support a military coup against a democratic government if the democratic government doesn't appeal to my ideals" is such a retarded policy to hold.[/QUOTE] Well sometimes the majority is oppressive to the minority. I'm not sure what alternative there is to the use of force in such cases. Especially when the democratically elected leader is undermining democracy to consolidate their power. I don't support the coup because I don't know who these people are and if they are to be trusted. But as much as I like democracy, the will of the majority isn't a valid moral justification for everything.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;50721541]Reading now that Turkish government is cutting the power for and now closing the Incirlik airforce base used by the US to bomb IS, and the base also holds nukes. [url]http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article23182362.ab[/url][/QUOTE] Isn't this kinda an act of war?
So do we know if the coupists were Kemalists or Gulenists?
[QUOTE=tomatmann;50721738]Isn't this kinda an act of war?[/QUOTE] No. The base belongs to Turkey really, they're apparently doing it for security measures. Now if they tried to take the nukes or fired on US personnel then yeah, but Erdogan isn't retarded enough to pick a fight with 1. His ally and 2. Someone who could wipe him out of existence in a moment's notice.
Sounds like it's better the Coup failed if what people say about the Gulen movement is true. Erdogan is a piece of shit but he isn't as "Islamic" as people think, he's much closer to Putin and how he views/uses religion than say the leaders of Saudi Arabia.
[QUOTE=Kljunas;50721736][b]Well sometimes the majority is oppressive to the minority. I'm not sure what alternative there is to the use of force in such cases.[/b] Especially when the democratically elected leader is undermining democracy to consolidate their power. [/QUOTE] But there are literally no opposition parties that support this coup and the military specifically targeted MPs. Protecting democracy by going against every single elected representative of the people makes no sense.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50721542]No. It's not, that's what pro-NRA jackoffs have convinced people of. The 2nd amendment was to establish protective forces for the states in the event of war or an invasion, since America did not have a standing army at the time. Let's not go down that rabbit hole in this thread though.[/QUOTE] No. [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1527018&p=50719628&viewfull=1#post50719628[/url]
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50721757]Then you dont know much. It was the coupers, and the base is joint operated. When Turkey hits PKK airplanes take off from Incirlik. When USA hits IS, same. When Turkey hits itself, same. It is the single largest airbase in Turkey.[/QUOTE] Well than I must stand corrected here.
[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2016/07/16/fethullah-gulen-the-islamic-scholar-turkey-blames-for-failed-coup/[/url] We have our Goldstein
So what happened while I was asleep? Has anyone won yet?
[QUOTE=mralexs;50721830]So what happened while I was asleep? Has anyone won yet?[/QUOTE] Read the damn thread. It failed
I think it makes no sense for them to want to bomb the parliament, why make the opposition your enemies as well?
[QUOTE=RB33;50721857]I think it makes no sense for them to want to bomb the parliament, why make the opposition your enemies as well?[/QUOTE] It makes less sense for Erdogan to bomb his own parliament though. It was clearly done by pro coup forces to frighten the government into surrendering.
[QUOTE=RB33;50721857]I think it makes no sense for them to want to bomb the parliament, why make the opposition your enemies as well?[/QUOTE] The point of a coup is to overthrow the government, they have no friends in the government. It was a show of force to try and show that they have control.
[QUOTE=sb27;50721557]When one of them was elected in by a majority of the electorate, which Erdogan was, then yeah Erdogan is absolutely and always better than even the most benevolent of military dictatorships. Erdogan may be a power-hungry cunt, but that's not an excuse for a group with guns to subvert the democratic will of the people.[/QUOTE] Framing this as a struggle of democracy vs dictatorship is nonsense. Erdogan isn't just a "power-hungry cunt," he's a dictator in the making. Democracy is just the means to that end. And just how legitimate is the "will of the people" when we're talking about a man who has no qualms about silencing his critics?
[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;50721875]It makes less sense for Erdogan to bomb his own parliament though. It was clearly done by pro coup forces to frighten the government into surrendering.[/QUOTE] Unless you want to kill and destroy the parliament itself. Remove it's members, in particular hope you get those who oppose your dictatorship. Then make the argument that, with parliament in shambles, power needs to be further consolidated in to your hands.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50721978]most of the parliament is pro AKP[/QUOTE] And? If you kill supporters, they are just replaced with other supporters who now know what "dissenters" could do to them and others in Parliament, giving them more reason to support more force and control over the population.
[QUOTE=Kigen;50721768]No. [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1527018&p=50719628&viewfull=1#post50719628[/url][/QUOTE] Quoting your own post? Doesn't change my stance, I entirely disagree with you but like I said, let's not go down that rabbit hole here.
[QUOTE=Tinter;50721896]The point of a coup is to overthrow the government, they have no friends in the government. It was a show of force to try and show that they have control.[/QUOTE] Well, if they claim it was for democracy and all that, they certainly won't have friends after that.
[QUOTE=Kljunas;50721736]Well sometimes the majority is oppressive to the minority. I'm not sure what alternative there is to the use of force in such cases. Especially when the democratically elected leader is undermining democracy to consolidate their power. I don't support the coup because I don't know who these people are and if they are to be trusted. But as much as I like democracy, the will of the majority isn't a valid moral justification for everything.[/QUOTE] Tyranny of the majority only works in a direct democracy voting on direct issues, not a representative democracy made of representatives to discuss, debate and work out issues. If a democratically elected leader is undermining that democracy, yes he should be stopped but not by a bullet. [editline]16th July 2016[/editline] It's like people don't like this guy because he's undermining democracy, that's fine, but how is supporting a "definitely not democracy" (a military coup) somehow a step up?
This failed coup has basically given Erdogan a golden ticket to do whatever the hell he wants.
[QUOTE=Potus;50722441]This failed coup has basically given Erdogan a golden ticket to do whatever the hell he wants.[/QUOTE] Are you guys saying Erdogen is basicaly Joseph Stalin the 2nd?
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