Apologists for paedophiles: How Labour Deputy Harriet Harman, her shadow minister husband and former - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Spacewolf;43190283]Explain to me why they should be permabanned?[/QUOTE] no need to have legitimate pedos roaming around the forums really

[QUOTE=Heroku;43190613]no need to have legitimate pedos roaming around the forums really[/QUOTE] Yeah, but why not? I want to hear your argument before I start assuming things. Because you don't like them, because they're bad people..?

[QUOTE=Spacewolf;43190639]Yeah, but why not? I want to hear your argument before I start assuming things. Because you don't like them, because they're bad people..?[/QUOTE] you assumed correct

[QUOTE=Heroku;43190668]you assumed correct[/QUOTE] Right then. Let's get something straight. Pedophiles and child molesters are [I]not[/I] the same thing. Is anyone with a fetish a bad person in your mind? You don't choose your fetishes, and unless they act on it, what's the problem? [editline]3[/editline] Rating me funny is not an acceptable counter argument.

I know in the US it varies widely per state, but I've known a few people who have gotten into really shit situations because their partner was just a year or two younger, and the older one turned 18. You see, in a lot of states, that just outright categorizes as statutory rape, even though most of these people have been in long lasting relationships. I'm personally a proponent of lowering the age of consent to 14 TO 18 (So someone 14-15-16-17-18 can date each other without fear of running into issues with the law); and then having people 17 be able to date 21 (Since the legal drinking age is 21) and then when you reach 18, 21+ is just fine. It would also help if judges and legislation was much more lenient on people around the same age having sex, even if it's against the parent's will; I've known too many situations where the parents are mega-Mormons and have absolutely freaked out at their children for dating / having sex before marriage. It should also take into account the ages in which the schools are grouping people, if you have a school ranging from 12 yr old students, to 18 yr old students, it's not outlandish to have extreme couplings, where as a normal US 'High' school, has students usually ranging from 13/14 to 18/19. Just my $0.02

[QUOTE=Heroku;43190668]you assumed correct[/QUOTE] "They should fuck off because I don't like them" k

[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;43191412]"They should fuck off because I don't like them" k[/QUOTE] Yeah unless you actually like pedophiles I really don't see why they shouldn't fuck off. Are you saying you do?

[QUOTE=Heroku;43192524]Yeah unless you actually like pedophiles I really don't see why they shouldn't fuck off. Are you saying you do?[/QUOTE] He's addressing a legitimate opinion with legitimate facts and reasoning and all you can do is label him a pedophile. Congratulations.

[QUOTE=Heroku;43192524]Yeah unless you actually like pedophiles I really don't see why they shouldn't fuck off. Are you saying you do?[/QUOTE] Are you confusing pedophiles with child molesters?

[QUOTE=Heroku;43192524]Yeah unless you actually like pedophiles I really don't see why they shouldn't fuck off. Are you saying you do?[/QUOTE] I fail to see any kind of rationality within your posts. As many other posters before me, I have no problems with paedophiles and similar deviants as long as they can control themselves, and doesn't act on their urges. What you're basically saying right now is "We should ban people that like Y, even though they do absolutely nothing to Y, because people who like Y are gross!" In that way, you're very similar to some homophobes, in the way that you hate someone for liking something that you find repulsive. On the other hand, I think I understand your concern. It's not the fact that they like something which you find disgusting that bothers you, it's the fact that they have urges which they can't properly ventilate without causing harm to someone else, similar to someone with a rape fetish, and in that way they may be time bombs. In my opinion, help and compassion is the way to go, rather than saying "Wow, you're sick, go die" .

[QUOTE=Heroku;43189861]okay dude[/QUOTE] He didn't say he was a pedophile. All he said was essentially this: "Would you feel disgusted or at unease if two people of wildly different ages had sex?" "Not really as long as they both agreed" That's not being a pedophile. A nihilist could have a similar response. Does this imply nihilists are pedophiles? [editline]15th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Heroku;43192524]Yeah unless you actually like pedophiles I really don't see why they shouldn't fuck off. Are you saying you do?[/QUOTE] Firstly he's not a pedophile. Secondly, I don't think pedophiles should be demonized and stripped of their human rights. They need help. Just saying "These are disgusting people" just drives them further and deeper into corners where any mental issues they have become unresolved. There have been pedophiles who have committed suicide or had mental breakdowns because they can't get any help. They can't speak to anybody because of the massive stigma against them. So what do they do? They cannot speak, so they just try to suppress their urges (to the point of breakdown, suicide, and actually acting out on their urges).

I'd have thought child molesters would want the age raised rather than lowered, to keep the molestable population higher.

[QUOTE=MrEndangered;43193628]I'd have thought child molesters would want the age raised rather than lowered, to keep the molestable population higher.[/QUOTE] I think you've somewhat misunderstood.

We use 18 as an age of general consent because thats the general age most peoples bodies are capable of handling children anything under that is too random, they might be developed because a few people mature fast, or the 18 year old is very small for their age but for the most part they are not, those that are are outliers and saying that you have to let all of them because one or two of them are ready to have kids is like saying that because a few fat people have glandular disorders we shouldn't call fat people unhealthy

[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;43194212]We use 18 as an age of general consent because thats the general age most peoples bodies are capable of handling children anything under that is too random, they might be developed because a few people mature fast, or the 18 year old is very small for their age but for the most part they are not, those that are are outliers and saying that you have to let all of them because one or two of them are ready to have kids is like saying that because a few fat people have glandular disorders we shouldn't call fat people unhealthy[/QUOTE] "We use 18 as an age of general consent" But you don't though, in much of America the age of sexual consent is 16 and 17. The driving age, marriageable age and drinking age all also vary considerably in America and even more so around the world. 18 is actually pretty rare as an age of consent. There is not a single nation in all of Europe and only one in Asia, excluding the middle east, where the age of consent is as high as 18. Of 196 counties only about 20 have an age of consent of 18 or higher. The average age for the onset of puberty in western nations varies form 8-11 and the physical and mental changes don't entirely finish until the early to mid twenties. Emotional and "life experience" continue to develop throughout the entire life and vary so wildly that it would be absurd to base any law upon. As for "bodies are capable of handling children" I agree pregnancy should probably be delayed until well into the 20s for most people but I'm sure you're aware of the existence of contraceptives, homosexuality, and the many forms of sex that do not involve vaginal penetration or any risk of pregnancy. I think the majority of young people have sex for the sake recreation rather than procreation, so I think it's specious at best to use this as a basis to raise the age of consent to 18.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43193569] Firstly he's not a pedophile. Secondly, I don't think pedophiles should be demonized and stripped of their human rights. They need help. Just saying "These are disgusting people" just drives them further and deeper into corners where any mental issues they have become unresolved. There have been pedophiles who have committed suicide or had mental breakdowns because they can't get any help. They can't speak to anybody because of the massive stigma against them. So what do they do? They cannot speak, so they just try to suppress their urges (to the point of breakdown, suicide, and actually acting out on their urges).[/QUOTE] Yeah, but Aidan_088 isn't encouraging pedophiles to seek therapy and work out their problems. If anything, he's providing abusers and potential abusers the arguments that they need to justify child molestation to themselves.

[QUOTE=CapellanCitizen;43194383]Yeah, but Aidan_088 isn't encouraging pedophiles to seek therapy and work out their problems. If anything, he's providing abusers and potential abusers the arguments that they need to justify child molestation to themselves.[/QUOTE] I haven't really spoken about pedophiles at all in this thread. I have discussed teenagers and that I think it should be their right to chose to have sex with each other or with adults. I don't know how many times it needs to be said but I don't think adults should have sex with prepubescent children. I do however draw a distinction between children and teenagers whom I do think should be given the option to decide for themselves if they want to engage in a mutually consensual sexual relationship.

[QUOTE=Aidan_088;43194428]I haven't really spoken about pedophiles at all in this thread.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Aidan_088, earlier in this thread;43180231]But it's simply factual to state that not all pedophilia is exploitative. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CapellanCitizen;43194496][/QUOTE] In response to other people I have mentioned it, but it's not really what I'm concerned with. If I were in charge I would not lower the age of consent enough to effect pedophiles. I don't think it's a good idea for children (meaning pre-teens) to engage in sexual activity with adults but if it does happen (and there's no violence black mail etc) I think it's absurd to immediately cry rape and treat those involved as a mustache twirling super-villain and a torture victim.

[QUOTE=Aidan_088;43194573]but if it does happen (and there's no violence black mail etc)[/QUOTE] but what are the odds under these conditions? all of your arguments seem to be based on "well, just in case it happens, you know??" This would be like cutting off some of the years people will spend in school just in case a few of them might know how to live and work on their own.

[QUOTE=Aphtonites;43194884]but what are the odds under these conditions? all of your arguments seem to be based on "well, just in case it happens, you know??" This would be like cutting off some of the years people will spend in school just in case a few of them might know how to live and work on their own.[/QUOTE] What do you mean under the circumstances? Why would violence or black mail be more likely if someone over 18 had a relationship with a younger teenager? Obviously it would be a possibility but it's always a possibility regardless of age. It's not like "cutting off some of the years people will spend in school" because teenagers already have sex or at the very least many of them want to. I'm not saying that all teenagers should be bound by law to enter into a sexual relationship only that they should have the option to do so if they wish. Giving them the choice doesn't mean they'll miss out on anything (as your metaphor seems to imply) it means it is up to them to decide what they do and don't want without having to worry about the police and national media getting involved. Teenagers already make very important decision about their education that will effect their future enormously, they can even join the army at 16. In Britain 10 year olds can be tried as adults. Allowing them to decide who they can have a relationship with isn't that much of a stretch. [editline]15th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Blind Lulu;43194961]It's incredibly unlikely if not impossible for an adult to engage in sex with a pre-teen without it being the result of them manipulating their age. The whole reason age of consent exists is to protect people from that sort of thing.[/QUOTE] Again I agree, I don't think adults should have sex with pre-teens. I literally said it in the post you quoted. But remember that the majority of people even pre-teens have internet access and therefore access to huge repositories of pornographic images and movies of adults. If it is conceded that they would seek out and enjoy watching such things is it not implicitly conceded that they could desire such a relationship with an adult? Though again to be 100% clear I do not think it should be legal for pre-teens to have sex with adults. I'm only saying that such relationships do not have to involve manipulation or violence, they might in some circumstances but this is true of all relationships regardless of age.

pedophile relationships are exploitative no matter what, the reason why it doesn't matter that many relationships can be manipulative regardless of age doesn't mean anything, children are 1. more susceptible to exploitation 2. have more lasting damage from the effects of it and once you're an adult you are the one that takes responsibility for your actions, until then that responsibility is taken by the government or your parents, neither of which want creepy old fucks trying to fuck kids [editline]16th December 2013[/editline] and to everyone saying 'yeah sure there's nothing wrong with being a pedophile you don't control who you're attracted to!' well you can control who you let know about, why don't you keep that kind of shit to yourself? you think people want to know you wanna fuck little kids? you're not allowed to openly spout racist or homophobic bullshit on this forum why should you be allowed to spout pedophilia shit? and remember how many kids ARE on this forum, why does your right to let the world know how many children you wanna fuck and why the law should be changed to allow this go above their right to use this forum comfortably?

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43196054]pedophile relationships are exploitative no matter what, the reason why it doesn't matter that many relationships can be manipulative regardless of age doesn't mean anything, children are 1. more susceptible to exploitation 2. have more lasting damage from the effects of it and once you're an adult you are the one that takes responsibility for your actions, until then that responsibility is taken by the government or your parents, neither of which want creepy old fucks trying to fuck kids [editline]16th December 2013[/editline] and to everyone saying 'yeah sure there's nothing wrong with being a pedophile you don't control who you're attracted to!' well you can control who you let know about, why don't you keep that kind of shit to yourself? you think people want to know you wanna fuck little kids? you're not allowed to openly spout racist or homophobic bullshit on this forum why should you be allowed to spout pedophilia shit? and remember how many kids ARE on this forum, why does your right to let the world know how many children you wanna fuck and why the law should be changed to allow this go above their right to use this forum comfortably?[/QUOTE] It might be true that children are more susceptible to manipulation but that does not mean manipulation will always occurs. If it does occur then I agree those involved should be punished. The second point you make is again only valid if manipulation does occur, which again there is no guarantee that it will. "once you're an adult you are the one that takes responsibility for your actions" It depends how you define adult, I've mentioned this before but in Britain 10 year olds can be tried as adults. Really though the major point is that me and many of the others in this thread are not talking about "fuciking kids" and have made that clear on multiple occasions. You are using children as an excuse to deny teenagers the right to have sex. To compare those campaigning for an extension of freedoms to both adults and teenagers to racists and homophobes is just bizarre and illogical. You are not arguing with us you are arguing past us and ignoring any points we make and then just screaming pedophilea as if that's any sort of response.

[QUOTE=Heroku;43180519]Surprised the FP pedo apologist squad didn't hit this thread already[/QUOTE] Sorry, I'm here now. Three is a squad, right? On the thread: I don't think having sex with children is okay, but I don't think the current laws are anything other than arbitrary. There needs more work done and less fear.

[QUOTE=Heroku;43190613]no need to have legitimate pedos roaming around the forums really[/QUOTE] If he should be permabanned for that you should be permad for backseat moderating

Tbh I don't really care if someone's a pedo as long as they keep it under control and don't diddle anyone I am 100% A-OK.

[QUOTE=DiscoMelon;43200416]If he should be permabanned for that you should be permad for backseat moderating[/QUOTE] uhm, do you even know what backseat modding is...? judging by your own definition of backseat modding you'd also be perma'd for backseat modding too so idk yo.