Turkish foreign minister predicts 'religious war' in Europe - Polidicks

[QUOTE=toaster468;51984594]Not an argument. Try actually refuting the numbers.[/QUOTE] It's important to point out because it's an indication that whoever compiled the "infograph" has a bias by mocking the idea that Muslims can be moderate. Which, you know, they can.

[QUOTE=toaster468;51984594]It's not intentionally misleading because they were prevented from surveying them because of safety concerns. Either way as you should have read in the report the countries in which surveys were conducted comprise 2/3 of the total muslim population. None of this is taken out of context so I don't see how you could say it doesnt make "an ounce of sense". Not an argument. Try actually refuting the numbers.[/QUOTE] Except I'm not arguing Pew Research. I'm arguing that supremely simplified, deceiving picture. That picture does not represent the study, and trying to boil down the intricacies of the beliefs of the followers in the biggest religion in the world with a couple of circles that I can only chalk up to being a statistical abomination. Let me analyze the picture that you have so intricately understood. First, I looked into a previous study done by Pew Research which was used in this study, "Tolerance and Tension: Islam and Christianity in Sub-Saharan Africa". This piece was made to determine how the relations between Muslims and Christians had existed at that time, but I'll focus more on what your picture showed, and take a passage out of sharia. [QUOTE]Across the sub-Saharan region, large numbers of people express strong support for democracy and say it is a good thing that people from religions different than their own are able to practice their faith freely. Asked whether democracy is preferable to any other kind of government or “in some circumstances, a nondemocratic government can be preferable,” strong majorities in every country choose democracy. In most places there is no significant difference between Muslims and Christians on this question. At the same time, there is substantial backing from both Muslims and Christians for basing civil laws on the Bible or sharia law. This may simply reflect the importance of religion in Africa. But it is nonetheless striking that in virtually all the countries surveyed, a majority or substantial minority (a third or more) of Christians favor making the Bible the official law of the land, while similarly large numbers of Muslims say they would like to enshrine sharia, or Islamic law.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2012/07/biblical-sharia-law.png[/IMG] This explains that Sub-Saharan Africa doesn't institute that exclusively Muslims want a religiously-led government, but Christians as well. With this, it's rather easy to infer that the problems of sharia in Sub-Saharan Africa isn't due to Muslims wanting to preach intolerance and base a Muslim-centric cult of domination for religion (which is especially humorous when you consider that the study explains that tensions in the area are actually rather lax, and Muslims and Christians seem to be doing well in coexisting), but rather I'd say that the people in this area aren't truly given the resources, and subsequently, education in order to move away from the Quran-centric point of view when it comes to government. Separation of state and church is an integral part of Western society, but it's laughable to believe that those who are lower-educated and only have their holy book to really look to would believe a single ounce of that, especially when the article goes on to say: [QUOTE]Across the sub-Saharan region, large numbers of people express strong support for democracy and say it is a good thing that people from religions different than their own are able to practice their faith freely. Asked whether democracy is preferable to any other kind of government or “in some circumstances, a nondemocratic government can be preferable,” strong majorities in every country choose democracy. In most places there is no significant difference between Muslims and Christians on this question. At the same time, there is substantial backing from both Muslims and Christians for basing civil laws on the Bible or sharia law. This may simply reflect the importance of religion in Africa. But it is nonetheless striking that in virtually all the countries surveyed, a majority or substantial minority (a third or more) of Christians favor making the Bible the official law of the land, while similarly large numbers of Muslims say they would like to enshrine sharia, or Islamic law.[/QUOTE] You might ask, "Well, why are you making such a big point of sharia law? What about the other pieces of the picture I showed you?". Well, that's my point. Making a bunch of circles and expecting any rational person to see that and say, "Yeah, that makes sense", without including the context of the study is absolutely fruitless. There's a lot of intricacies about Islam and the people who believe it. Like any other group of people. Like I said, I'm arguing your usage of that picture, which you backed up with no analysis, no commentary, and not even a little bit of quotation or paraphrasing of the source, [I]not[/I] Pew Research. Come on now.

[QUOTE=Omilinon;51984689]Except I'm not arguing Pew Research. I'm arguing that supremely simplified, deceiving picture. That picture does not represent the study, and trying to boil down the intricacies of the beliefs of the followers in the biggest religion in the world with a couple of circles that I can only chalk up to being a statistical abomination.[/QUOTE] How do these two sentences even follow. If you arent arguing the numbers how could this be a statistical abomination? The graphs are right there in the report. Also I am going to ignore the rest of this post because it is meaningless to the argument.

Most Muslims who are fans of sharia law don't think it should be applied to non-muslims. I think it's a crazy belief , but I think it can be changed with education,assimilation,new ideas,propaganda (targeted at muslims) and cultural power. Drawing lines is only gonna enrage them. If you really want to beat islam, snuggle up to them, and corrupt their kids.

I can't wait for Reformation 2.0: Papal boogaloo

[QUOTE=toaster468;51984730]How do these two sentences even follow. If you arent arguing the numbers how could this be a statistical abomination? The graphs are right there in the report. Also I am going to ignore the rest of this post because it is meaningless to the argument.[/QUOTE] You're ignoring it because it shatters your worldview that conservatism arises out of Islam rather than a lack of education and development.

[QUOTE=EskillV2;51973316]It's like they want to destabilize Europe. Don't worry, we'll shove that war up your asshole.[/QUOTE] Europe has been [B]super[/B] lenient on the requirements for turkey to various EU access (like Visa free travel). Including a lot of topics that the EU would [B]never[/B] compromise on, like human-rights, democracy, security, privacy, censorship. They are never going to actually give them a whole lot of anything, they are just going to keep pushing it back, adding requirements doing more research. freezing things, etc. They are just buying time until the dependency on Turkey decreases, and the stability in Europe/Middle-East increases. Turkey has sort of realized its never going to happen over the last 6 months or so, and seems to have given up any attempt of trying to maintain a positive relationship or moving forward in EU relations. So a destabilized Europe increases the dependency on them, and if Europe has major fractions it would mean they don't have to deal with a Economical Superpower that has as 90% of their trade relations, and that now hates them.

[QUOTE=toaster468;51984594]It's not intentionally misleading because they were prevented from surveying them because of safety concerns. Either way as you should have read in the report the countries in which surveys were conducted comprise 2/3 of the total muslim population. None of this is taken out of context so I don't see how you could say it doesnt make "an ounce of sense". Not an argument. Try actually refuting the numbers.[/QUOTE] He just did refute your numbers. isn't that 'not an argument' meme from stefan moleneux? If you subscribe to his ideas you may be too far gone down the rabbit hole. - This is not an argument merely an observation and a warning not to listen to his cultish bullshit. You can skeptic or redpill without going full retard. Also the foreign ministers comments are aimed directly at people like you, to manipulate you and make you serve their agenda by supporting 'populist leaders' and voting against your own interest. If you care about fighting Islamism then Turkey becoming less secular should concern you, do not let yourself help them.

Oh boy