Anti "Ground Zero Mosque" rhetoric bolstering Islamic extremist claims in other countries - Polidicks

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24358791]and the actual hijackers were doing it for religious reasons. [/QUOTE] No they weren't.

[QUOTE=starpluck;24358901]No they weren't.[/QUOTE] So they weren't recruited and told that this was allah's will? I highly doubt people joined the cause without ulterior motives. I find it unlikely that a group of people would just volunteer for suicide missions and mass murder knowing it was for those reasons. However, if you have evidence contrary to this, I'll believe it.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24358938]So they weren't recruited and told that this was allah's will? I highly doubt people joined the cause without ulterior motives. I find it unlikely that a group of people would just volunteer for suicide missions and mass murder knowing it was for those reasons. However, if you have evidence contrary to this, I'll believe it.[/QUOTE] Well, religion was exploited and used as a tool for mass recruitment. I'm sure if religon didn't exist they would've had other reasons to recruit. Anyways, the 9/11 Commission unanimously agreed the motive and reason was to punish the United States for supporting Israel. On the trial itself[URL="http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/defense/941.pdf"]: Defense Trial Exhibit 941[/URL] from the trial [URL="http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/"]United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui Criminal No. 01-455-A[/URL] states the following: [release]Sheikh Mohammed said that the purpose of the attack on the Twin Towers was to "wake the American people up." Sheikh Mohammed said that if the target would have been strictly military or government, the American people would not focus on the atrocities that America is committing by supporting Israel against the Palestinian people and America's self-serving foreign policy that corrupts Arab governments and leads to further exploitation of the Arab/Muslim peoples.[/release] It should of be known already just by looking at Bin Laden's tapes, they all mention that the attacks will continue unless Western presence is gone from the Middle East (Occupation e.g) and most importantly, withdraw support from Israel. For example [URL="http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/01/201012415287209336.html"]Bin Laden warns US of more attack[/URL]. [quote=Al Jazzera] Osama bin Laden has warned Barack Obama, the US president, that there will be further attacks on the United States unless he takes steps to resolve the Palestinian situation. In an audio tape obtained by Al Jazeera on Sunday, the al-Qaeda chief, praised the Nigerian accused of a failed attempt to blow up an airliner heading for Detroit on Christmas Day. "The message I want to convey to you through the plane of the hero Umar Farouk [Abdulmutallab], reaffirms a previous message that the heroes of 9/11 conveyed to you," Bin Laden said. "America will never dream of living in peace unless we live it in Palestine. It is unfair that you enjoy a safe life while our brothers in Gaza suffer greatly. "Therefore, with God's will, our attacks on you will continue as long as you continue to support Israel," bin Laden said. "If it was possible to carry our messages to you by words we wouldn't have carried them to you by planes."[/quote] In all of his tapes, he doesn't say "that attacks will continue until you believe in Allah" he says they will continue unless the U.S stops whatever. [URL="http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/01/201012415287209336.html"] [/URL] [editline]01:14PM[/editline] Or you could read this: [URL="http://www.representativepress.org/Motivesfor911.html"]Motive for 9/11[/URL]

[QUOTE=starpluck;24359052]Well, religion was exploited and used as a tool for mass recruitment. I'm sure if religon didn't exist they would've had other reasons to recruit. [/QUOTE] He meant the motive of some of the hijackers themselves, not the motive behind the attack in general. But I think a far more fitting motive for people who would fly planes into building full of people would be insanity.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;24359127]He meant the motive of some of the hijackers themselves, not the motive behind the attack in general. But I think a far more fitting motive for people who would fly planes into building full of people would be insanity.[/QUOTE] Oh, than I suppose it'd be yeah, insanity.

A sign of intolerance or not, it was pretty insensitive to think of putting a mosque there. If people can get past this sensitivity then it could actually be the first step towards islamic acceptance. Also, isn't describing MEDCs as "The west" a bit out of date? This isn't the cold war.

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;24359609]A sign of intolerance or not, it was pretty insensitive to think of putting a mosque there.[/QUOTE] :colbert: no the religion is not connected to the attack

[QUOTE=wewt!;24359674]:colbert: no the religion is not connected to the attack[/QUOTE] I said insensitive, not stupid. You know as well as I do that the general public would link the 9/11 attacks to islam in the blink of an eye.

From all that I've read about, it seems to me that there is a massive lack of communication between people, that, and the fact that those with power seem to ignore the requests/demands of those who have the brass balls to cause harm if not listened to. I don't know why were occupying the middle east nor why it would piss so many people off, but if its that bad all things considered maybe it would be a good to relieve some of that occupation. As for the mosque uh.. thing, the only way I can see it cooling off is if the people who are protesting it went ahead and said "Fine, go ahead and build it there. This is America after all, your free to do whatever with in the law." Maybe those who are fighting to have built there wouldn't be spazzing saying that Americans are bigots and what not and trying to claim that we lie about freedoms. The peoples feelings are not forgotten here, and the feelings of victims of 9/11 should be taken into account on the subject. However peoples feelings have nothing to do with constitutional rights in this case. A: If it's built, then the 9/11 victims families have a field day calling the supporters of the mosque heartless an uncaring and lash out somehow. B: It's not built and the Muslims have a field day and call Americans liers about freedom of religion and lash out somehow. Like I said, IMO of course, the only way to calm shit down is to FUCKING COMMUNICATE the issue.

Perhaps they could have a memorial of the people who died in 9/11 in the mosque as well as in the general plaza (I'm guessing they'll have one in the plaza, it's the kind of thing you're just... meant to do.)

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;24359757]Perhaps they could have a memorial of the people who died in 9/11 in the mosque as well as in the general plaza (I'm guessing they'll have one in the plaza, it's the kind of thing you're just... meant to do.)[/QUOTE] They already have a memorial at ground zero. It was bad enough erecting a giant cross at ground zero signifying that all who died were Christians, despite the Jews and Muslims who died. If they were to have one, it'd make sense to have some sort of Islamic themed memorial (dunno if they exist).

But again, that would suggest that all the people who died were islamic... Which would cause trouble. Just a plaque on the entrance to the mosque would be a good idea, to be honest.

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;24359835]But again, that would suggest that all the people who died were islamic... Which would cause trouble. Just a plaque on the entrance to the mosque would be a good idea, to be honest.[/QUOTE] Seems like a good idea but it wont satisfy the bigots. "It's an insult! A 9/11 plaque in a damn Mosque?!" or they'll just continue to blindly protest with the most fucked up analogies.

[QUOTE=starpluck;24359924]Seems like a good idea but it wont satisfy the bigots. "It's an insult! A 9/11 plague in a damn Mosque?!" or they'll just continue to blindly protest with the most fucked up analogies.[/QUOTE] bigots will be bigots.

[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;24359609]A sign of intolerance or not, it was pretty insensitive to think of putting a mosque there.[/QUOTE] Why, because the idiots who crashed into the twin towers happened to follow a similar religion to the users of that building.

[QUOTE=starpluck;24359052]Well, religion was exploited and used as a tool for mass recruitment. I'm sure if religon didn't exist they would've had other reasons to recruit. Anyways, the 9/11 Commission unanimously agreed the motive and reason was to punish the United States for supporting Israel. On the trial itself[URL="http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/defense/941.pdf"]: Defense Trial Exhibit 941[/URL] from the trial [URL="http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/"]United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui Criminal No. 01-455-A[/URL] states the following: [release]Sheikh Mohammed said that the purpose of the attack on the Twin Towers was to "wake the American people up." Sheikh Mohammed said that if the target would have been strictly military or government, the American people would not focus on the atrocities that America is committing by supporting Israel against the Palestinian people and America's self-serving foreign policy that corrupts Arab governments and leads to further exploitation of the Arab/Muslim peoples.[/release] It should of be known already just by looking at Bin Laden's tapes, they all mention that the attacks will continue unless Western presence is gone from the Middle East (Occupation e.g) and most importantly, withdraw support from Israel. For example [URL="http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/01/201012415287209336.html"]Bin Laden warns US of more attack[/URL]. In all of his tapes, he doesn't say "that attacks will continue until you believe in Allah" he says they will continue unless the U.S stops whatever. [URL="http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/01/201012415287209336.html"] [/URL] [editline]01:14PM[/editline] Or you could read this: [URL="http://www.representativepress.org/Motivesfor911.html"]Motive for 9/11[/URL][/QUOTE] Good enough sir. Point well made. Religion was the tool of mass recruitment, and all I meant was that the highjackers themselves personal motives were religious ones, again, not that important in the end.

[QUOTE=Warhol;24358396]that's not what Taqiyya is[/QUOTE] “Let not the believers take those who deny the truth for their allies in preference to the believers – since he who does this cuts himself off from God in everything – unless it be to protect yourself against them in this way…" [QUOTE=Warhol;24358396]That anyone who is not white is an inferior animal?[/QUOTE] Mm, yes, quite. Oh and, before I forget, add people in the lower tax brackets to that.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;24359127]He meant the motive of some of the hijackers themselves, not the motive behind the attack in general. But I think a far more fitting motive for people who would fly planes into building full of people would be insanity.[/QUOTE] Mental illness, alienation, discrimination, hopelessness, worthlessness, poverty, etc.

[QUOTE=lulzbocks;24330081]Lol says who? I'm American, and I don't think that it's a "bastion of freedom", or was ever intended to be. Anyone who says otherwise is uninformed or attempting to make America look better than it is.[/QUOTE] It was intended to be a bastion of freedom. However, most would agree we haven't accomplished our goals very much. :smith:

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24358791]To be fair, yes it was. While they were manipulated by people, religion was the tool that they fell back on, and the actual hijackers were doing it for religious reasons. Not that this actually means anything.[/QUOTE] uhhhhh, how do i sheik mohammad [editline]12:11AM[/editline] [QUOTE=MingusMajor;24362449]“Let not the believers take those who deny the truth for their allies in preference to the believers – since he who does this cuts himself off from God in everything – unless it be to protect yourself against them in this way…" Mm, yes, quite. Oh and, before I forget, add people in the lower tax brackets to that.[/QUOTE] That's from surrah 3, which ties into what it means. it's to protect against oppression.