Obama calls for assault weapons ban, background checks. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=futahorse;39251054]What are you talking about? I am saying the government does not have the authority to tell its citizens how to live their lives beyond protecting the rights of the people given in the constitution.[/QUOTE] well then better change a lot of things before you even get started on this shit.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;39251049]I'm concerned with the government using such a campaign to push a political message, notably in this case the AWB, but I have no issue with the government putting out a safety campaign about firearms as long as it only covers the safe storage and handling of firearms. It's like the governments putting out anti-bullying campaigns and anti-drunk driving campaigns. Again, though, I'm concerned such a campaign would be used for either further fear-mongering or to push a political platform.[/QUOTE] thats fair, if the govt is using a public safety campaign full of shit like "stay away from M16s they are extra dangerous and ruthless and you should always be afraid of them" then i get where you're coming from. as long as the campaign is neutral and doesn't try to push an agenda i think its a good idea though

[QUOTE=UziXxX;39251073]Amen, but sadly there are those who want / do not mind the government being involved in every aspect of their life 24/7.[/QUOTE] oh i didn't know a education course that you can take is forcing shit in your face. sorry bro

How can anyone even argue against a proper gun safety campaign? How can teaching people not to use their guns in a way that won't put anyone in danger be a bad thing?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39251044]you're applying it to yourself and saying you're everyone when you say "I wouldn't, no one would" that's fucking self evident.[/QUOTE] I'm also applying it to anyone who cares to respond. would you kill people if murder was legal?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39251044]you're applying it to yourself and saying you're everyone when you say "I wouldn't, no one would" that's fucking self evident.[/QUOTE] Projection of the sort he's using is indeed nonsensical, it's the same kind of logic applied by the people who say "Well if I had a gun I'd kill people, so therefore you would do the same thing and you shouldn't have a gun due to what I'd do if I had one." Projection of one's personal views onto another person or populace is not a sufficient justification for something. Sorry Buttsex, but your argument is flawed.

I've never been particularly vocal nor educated about the topic of gun control, but one thing that always seemed self-contradictory to me was the pro-gun assertion that the Second Amendment was created so that citizens may freely acquire firearms to defend themselves from a potential tyranny of government (ignoring for a second that it actually states in the Constitution that only a well-regulated militia may acquire firearms), despite the fact that they also assert that criminals will be able to acquire firearms regardless of government control. If the second supposition is true, would it not make sense that the negation of the Second Amendment be irrelevant to the American peoples' efficacy to acquire firearms in the event of tyranny? Or do they presuppose that a law-abiding citizen's ability to acquire firearms are inherently lesser than a criminal's (i.e. not knowing the little ins-and-outs of underground gun trade)?

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;39251049]I'm concerned with the government using such a campaign to push a political message, notably in this case the AWB, but I have no issue with the government putting out a safety campaign about firearms as long as it only covers the safe storage and handling of firearms. It's like the governments putting out anti-bullying campaigns and anti-drunk driving campaigns. Again, though, I'm concerned such a campaign would be used for either further fear-mongering or to push a political platform.[/QUOTE] This is the general gist of things. The government telling me I am suppose to have a "healthy" diet, exercise, have safe sex, treat specific people above others, and the like is not the purpose of the government.

[QUOTE=UziXxX;39251073]Amen, but sadly there are those who want / do not mind the government being involved in every aspect of their life 24/7.[/QUOTE] do you wake up every day crying and shouting at your ceiling fan "IM TIRED OF BEING EDUCATED ABOUT THE DANGERS OF DRUNK DRIVING. DAMN THIS NANNY STATE"? there's a big difference between educating the public about important issues and prying into "every aspect of their life 24/7"

[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;39251089]I'm also applying it to anyone who cares to respond. would you kill people if murder was legal?[/QUOTE] no but i'm also not mad as hell at someone who I just had a major argument with over a very heated personal issue I don't take the idea that my view of the moment is something that applies to everyone always or even most people. that's dangerous thinking.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39251085]oh i didn't know a education course that you can take is forcing shit in your face. sorry bro[/QUOTE] What are you on about? I'm saying I agree with the previous gentleman's post. I think that the American people are capable of making their own decisions without the government needing to have a say or approving.

[QUOTE=futahorse;39251099]This is the general gist of things. The government telling me I am suppose to have a "healthy" diet, exercise, have safe sex, treat specific people above others, and the like is not the purpose of the government.[/QUOTE] having advice or education about things is not the same as being forced to follow fuck sakes

[QUOTE=futahorse;39251099]This is the general gist of things. The government telling me I am suppose to have a "healthy" diet, exercise, have safe sex, treat specific people above others, and the like is not the purpose of the government.[/QUOTE] How can you possibly compare the government teaching people how to properly use a gun to controlling your life?

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39251064]no but i think there have been plenty of scenarios where someone thought "i could shoot my wife right now but i don't want to spend the next 20 years of my life in prison" tbh i'm legitimately disappointed that we even have to have this conversation[/QUOTE] there's these things called empathy and compassion that you're completely forgetting about. people don't like killing people. we're completely off the point anyway, I was just saying that education is more effective than restriction

[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;39251148]there's these things called empathy and compassion that you're completely forgetting about. people don't like killing people. we're completely off the point anyway, I was just saying that education is more effective than restriction[/QUOTE] i wonder why so many people commit crimes of passion then

[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;39251148]there's these things called empathy and compassion that you're completely forgetting about. people don't like killing people.[/QUOTE] right.. that's why people are murdered everyday in america

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39251167]right.. that's why people are murdered everyday in america[/QUOTE] by murderers, yes. I said there wouldn't be more, not that there wouldn't be any

[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;39251180]by murderers, yes. I said there wouldn't be more, not that there wouldn't be any[/QUOTE] I really, really don't believe that. and you're reasoning for it is so fucking shitty I can't believe you buy it.

[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;39251180]by murderers, yes. I said there wouldn't be more, not that there wouldn't be any[/QUOTE] so you don't think there's ever been a scenario in which someone said "god i would fuckin kill my wife/girlfriend/husband/boyfriend, but i really don't wanna go to prison" [editline]17th January 2013[/editline] in fact this whole argument is reaching a new low for stupid arguments because you already admitted there's murderers out there murdering people, so clearly there are people out there willing to murder. the idea that some of those people aren't holding back because they would rather be free and not live the rest of their lives in prison is ridiculous

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39251106]do you wake up every day crying and shouting at your ceiling fan "IM TIRED OF BEING EDUCATED ABOUT THE DANGERS OF DRUNK DRIVING. DAMN THIS NANNY STATE"? there's a big difference between educating the public about important issues and prying into "every aspect of their life 24/7"[/QUOTE] There is a big difference between private entities educating people about important issues and the federal government educating people about important issues. One has legislative and physical power, the other's is insignificant or non-existent.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39251196]so you don't think there's ever been a scenario in which someone said "god i would fuckin kill my wife/girlfriend/husband/boyfriend, but i really don't wanna go to prison"[/QUOTE] I'm sure there has been but honestly how many people would go through with it? the change would be negligible at best maybe I'm an optimist but I like to think that humans aren't inherently crap

[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;39251220]I'm sure there has been but honestly how many people would go through with it? the change would be negligible at best [B]maybe I'm an optimist but I like to think that humans aren't inherently crap[/B][/QUOTE] Yes you're an optimist, and that's your first mistake when thinking about people.

[QUOTE=futahorse;39251218]There is a big difference between private entities educating people about important issues and the federal government educating people about important issues. One has legislative and physical power, the other's is insignificant or non-existent.[/QUOTE] You think corporate power over people is insignificant...? Government doesn't have more power than money, and though they impact people why is an education course from them so offensive to you

[QUOTE=God's Pimp Hand;39251096]I've never been particularly vocal nor educated about the topic of gun control, but one thing that always seemed self-contradictory to me was the pro-gun assertion that the Second Amendment was created so that citizens may freely acquire firearms to defend themselves from a potential tyranny of government [B]ignoring for a second that it actually states in the Constitution that only a well-regulated militia may acquire firearms[/B])[/QUOTE] There's plenty of people who think the 2nd amendment doesn't say that (myself included) and in fact the Supreme Court has debated over the meaning of the 2nd. The interpretation isn't so clear-cut.

[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;39251220]I'm sure there has been but honestly how many people would go through with it? the change would be negligible at best maybe I'm an optimist but I like to think that humans aren't inherently crap[/QUOTE] you're an optimist and for the last time, you're reasoning here is so flawed it's fucking scary.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39251248]you're an optimist and for the last time, you're reasoning here is so flawed it's fucking scary.[/QUOTE] you're talking like I'm actually saying murder should be legal rather than responding to an idiotic comment from another poster

[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;39251220]I'm sure there has been but honestly how many people would go through with it? the change would be negligible at best maybe I'm an optimist but I like to think that humans aren't inherently crap[/QUOTE] alright well i guess we just disagree then (because you're being silly) [editline]17th January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=futahorse;39251218]There is a big difference between private entities educating people about important issues and the federal government educating people about important issues. One has legislative and physical power, the other's is insignificant or non-existent.[/QUOTE] the government didn't burn "i'm loving it" into my head pretending corporate influence on the public is insignificant is so nonsensical come on

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39251118]having advice or education about things is not the same as being forced to follow fuck sakes[/QUOTE] I didn't say they were forcing me. The government cannot be an interest group and a legislator. It breeds corruption and promotes tyrannical behavior. Again, the federal government's purpose is to preserve the rights of the people. [QUOTE=Chaplin;39251125]How can you possibly compare the government teaching people how to properly use a gun to controlling your life?[/QUOTE] I didn't say they were forcibly controlling through education campaigns. I am merely adding gun safety education by the federal government to the list of other practices the government suggests we act within their wishes. Don't construe this as me being against proper gun safety. Private advocacy groups are free to pursue this. [editline]17th January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Kopimi;39251263]alright well i guess we just disagree then (because you're being silly) [editline]17th January 2013[/editline] the government didn't burn "i'm loving it" into my head pretending corporate influence on the public is insignificant is so nonsensical come on[/QUOTE] I am speaking in a legislative sense, political influence on the public to pass politician's interests.

[QUOTE=Camundongo;39249895]Actually, an MD is expected to be able to carry out and assess research like any other doctor - in fact their doing so is vitally important to their job. I'm not commenting on the research in question, but your statement is a complete falsehood.[/QUOTE] A PhD is a research degree. That is the point. They are professional researchers. An MD is to practice medicine. Research is, at best, a tiny component and in no way qualifies them for this.

[QUOTE=Disotrtion;39251244]There's plenty of people who think the 2nd amendment doesn't say that (myself included) and in fact the Supreme Court has debated over the meaning of the 2nd. The interpretation isn't so clear-cut.[/QUOTE] It doesn't make matters better when the meaning of the word "militia" has changed since that time period. This may help clarify the issue. [QUOTE]The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious if it were capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, nor a week nor even a month, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry and of the other classes of the citizens to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people and a serious public inconvenience and loss. ---Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers, No. 29.[/QUOTE]