Wealth inequality between whites and minorities reaches highest point since 1989
53 replies, posted
One day I'm going to be one of those wealthy white people all these studies are done about.
What do you suppose the numbers look like if you remove the top earners who rake in obscene amounts of cash?
Not that I am trying to deny that there isn't financial inequality between different races, just that I am saying that there are a lot of white people who earn the kind of money your average white person couldn't even hope to fathom as being something you could possess, skewing the numbers significantly.
[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;46721131]I feel like 2014 has just been the year of discrimination.[/QUOTE]
I like to think all media outlets have a big hat, and every year they pull out a different "Hot topic" issue from it and try to link all there stories to it regardless if its relevant.
[QUOTE=joes33431;46723878]does the good performance of jews and asians somehow negate the fact that blacks and hispanics have lower incomes and are disproportionately effected by economic downturn or..
like i'm having a hard time understanding what point you all are trying to make by talking about asians and jews[/QUOTE]
It also doesn't help that despite "better performance" in the economic sphere, Jews and Asians are still discriminated against elsewhere.
[QUOTE=Riutet;46725022]What do you suppose the numbers look like if you remove the top earners who rake in obscene amounts of cash?
Not that I am trying to deny that there isn't financial inequality between different races, just that I am saying that there are a lot of white people who earn the kind of money your average white person couldn't even hope to fathom as being something you could possess, skewing the numbers significantly.[/QUOTE]
The study used median income, not mean income, so the numbers shouldn't be skewed.
[QUOTE=joes33431;46723878]does the good performance of jews and asians somehow negate the fact that blacks and hispanics have lower incomes and are disproportionately effected by economic downturn or..
like i'm having a hard time understanding what point you all are trying to make by talking about asians and jews[/QUOTE]
It's pretty simple - it kinda creates issues with the original metric. It's not minorities in general. It's minorities that have greatly suffered from historic reasons that are mostly in a bad space.
The article is titled income inequality between whites and minorities instead of between the majority and blacks and hispanics.
These two titles paint a significantly different image.
Making a class problem sound like a race problem is how rich people ensure nothing will ever get done to fix it.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;46722665]the wealth gap has always been a racial issue? a major point of sociological study for half a century has been "why are black people almost always poorer than white people?" and it's a very valid question in the same way that looking at glass ceiling issues with women is a very valid topic of research[/QUOTE]
Why is that even a question ? Just 150 years ago white people in the US not only owned everything and ruled the country, but also owned the black people themselves. It took another 100 years for them to finally get the rights that they deserve.
There is no point making social studies, no person with a brain in his head can expect that a wealth and power gap like that can the neutralized in just 150 years no matter how much they try and work hard. The only way it could have happened if there was some kind of US version of 1917 socialist revolutions in Russia and the country had a hard reset.
[QUOTE=AntonioR;46726086]Why is that even a question ? Just 150 years ago white people in the US not only owned everything and ruled the country, but also owned the black people themselves. It took another 100 years for them to finally get the rights that they deserve.[/QUOTE]
obviously, but that's looking back kind of unnecessarily far and doesn't give us any way to fix the issue. it's just saying "oh well it's just because of these things that happened hundreds of years ago. things will get better in time. nothing we can do now though so we might as well ignore it"
sociological study tends to be more contemporary and tries to find answers that we can use to formulate some real change for the better, right now
like when you look at wealth inequality with black people a few things can be traced back and it's then that we can realise where we're going wrong eg
- black people, on average, earn less than white people
-- because black people have worse paying jobs than white people
--- because black people get worse grades than white people
---- because black people tend to go to worse schools than white people
----- because black people are more likely to live in impoverished inner-city areas than white people
------ because black people, on average, earn less than white people
when you understand these contemporary chains better then it's easier to start to formulate ideas to help improve the wealth gap, especially with regards to race
so yeh it's all well and good to be like "black people earn less money because they only got their rights 50 years ago because of slavery hundreds of years ago" but that's not very useful
Yeah, but tell me:
Why is that?
[editline]16th December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;46726135]obviously, but that's looking back kind of unnecessarily far and doesn't give us any way to fix the issue. it's just saying "oh well it's just because of these things that happened hundreds of years ago. things will get better in time. nothing we can do now though so we might as well ignore it"
sociological study tends to be more contemporary and tries to find answers that we can use to formulate some real change for the better, right now
like when you look at wealth inequality with black people a few things can be traced back and it's then that we can realise where we're going wrong eg
- black people, on average, earn less than white people
-- because black people have worse paying jobs than white people
--- because black people get worse grades than white people
---- because black people tend to go to worse schools than white people
----- because black people are more likely to live in impoverished inner-city areas than white people
------ because black people, on average, earn less than white people
when you understand these contemporary chains better then it's easier to start to formulate ideas to help improve the wealth gap, especially with regards to race
so yeh it's all well and good to be like "black people earn less money because they only got their rights 50 years ago because of slavery hundreds of years ago" but that's not very useful[/QUOTE]
Perfect example of what to do when pointing this shit out.
[QUOTE=V12US;46726013]Making a class problem sound like a race problem is how rich people ensure nothing will ever get done to fix it.[/QUOTE]
how would pointing out inequality in any fashion be useful to them at all? that would run totally counter to the bootstraps concept and pretty much prove that you're subject to unfair biases no matter how skilled you might be. that's probably the least useful thing they could possibly do to divert attention
[editline]16th December[/editline]
"HEY GUYS PLEASE DIVERT YOUR ATTENTION TOWARDS HOW UNEQUAL OUR SYSTEM IS, MEANWHILE PLEASE DO NOT THINK ABOUT HOW UNEQUAL OUR SYSTEM IS, THANK YOU"
[QUOTE=wraithcat;46725910]It's pretty simple - it kinda creates issues with the original metric. It's not minorities in general. It's minorities that have greatly suffered from historic reasons that are mostly in a bad space.
The article is titled income inequality between whites and minorities instead of between the majority and blacks and hispanics.
These two titles paint a significantly different image.[/QUOTE]
ah, okay. i understand.
[QUOTE=AntonioR;46721052]To spice up the problem of the wealth gap, they made it a racial issue too. Oh, those media and their click bait tricks...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=spiritlol;46722457]I've always thought bringing race into the income/wealth gap kinda of undermines the severity of the subject. It gets people hung up on race instead of huge gap that exists between the extremely wealthy and everybody else.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=V12US;46726013]Making a class problem sound like a race problem is how rich people ensure nothing will ever get done to fix it.[/QUOTE]
It is literally mentioned in the OP that black people have [b]thirteen times[/b] less median net worth (read: not affected by outliers) than white people, how is that not a race problem? Why is it that the economic class distribution of white and black peoples are so different? Surely it couldn't be a [b]race problem[/b].
You lot are pathetic.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;46721610]Being Jewish does not constitute a ethic minority. Thats an identity of a religion.[/QUOTE]
you're kind of right and you're kind of wrong. it's weird because there's not really any factual definition for it. when people say jew usually they mean the communities of people who have mostly israeli bloodlines who's families generally subscribe to Judaism. while jewish isn't technically a race or ethnicity the word has become synonymous with those groups of people which is basically what an ethnicity is.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;46730287]It is literally mentioned in the OP that black people have [b]thirteen times[/b] less median net worth (read: not affected by outliers) than white people, how is that not a race problem? Why is it that the economic class distribution of white and black peoples are so different? Surely it couldn't be a [b]race problem[/b].
You lot are pathetic.[/QUOTE]
Because it is more than a race problem. It is only a race problem on the surface, and is compounded by a multitude of factors which obscure and only degrade the problem at hand.
For instance, I work at a mid-level retail chain part-time (It's not Walmart, thank god) and not ONCE have I hired a black person for less pay than I hired a white guy. Never have I given a white guy a bigger raise just because he is white. The company makes a point of hiring diversely and rewarding equally. And my store definitely isn't an 'outlier' because the chain exists all across the US, in Canada, and runs its' business in the very same manner as its' competitors. So explain to me again where Black People have 13x less median?
If you want to quote CEO's and high-level executives who are all primarily white in the US. Sure, you have a point there. But it CERTAINLY isn't their color or race that hold them from these positions. There are blacks, hispanics, and asians all in my corporate office. Hell, my District Manager is black! Imagine that! He even makes exponentially more than me, a white male! (but maybe that one's an outlier?)
The problem is education, morals, and community.
For whatever reason, and this is my own observation; nothing more, black communities seem to lack community support. There is a deep sense of brotherhood and unity between them, yes. But when it comes to social responsibility, there are massive short-comings. Often times coming down to 'every man for himself'. And these short comings are what are largely responsible for their 'inhibition' in society that everyone is so worked up about.
My District manager is smart, clean, well organized, and efficient. He gets the job done, looks good doing it, and treats everyone amazingly. In return he is well celebrated and was able to move up the ranks pretty fast. Again, he is black.
But how do you think corporate management is going to look at another black male with sagging pants, a turned-bill, dirty dreads, a poor vocabulary, and the presence of an attitude? You think that is what management sees as hire-able material?
It's not the color of their skin that hurts them, it is the attitude and unfortunately that has developed into some pretty unfair stereotypes. So if blacks want to 'earn as much as whites', or as I think it should be put instead 'occupy the same jobs that others do', then they need to band together and start taking their image seriously. Improve it, be the higher ground. Don't just sit around and point the finger, claiming everyone is out to get you. If for 50 years more blacks went to higher education, stuck with it, stayed away from drugs, actively tried to leave the ghetto, educated their children, raised them to be fair and honest; then in two generations there would be no 'racial inequality'. Just good ol' fashioned racism, which is easy to defeat on its own in my opinion.
But for now, and this is a human trait not a black one specifically, it is easier to point the finger and say someone else is keeping you down.
I mean for fucks sake, there are schools for blacks only, scholarships only blacks can apply for, communities only blacks are allowed into. Media that is specifically geared towards the black population, hell even apparel that is geared towards them. So don't tell me they're viewed as second citizens. Maybe to the casual racist, but society makes a big attempt to give them a leg up. There ain't no school for asians or whites only. I guarantee it, at least not in the US.
tl;dr
It's not race, its responsibility and no one wants to accept that.
[QUOTE=Keys;46730750]Because it is more than a race problem. It is only a race problem on the surface, and is compounded by a multitude of factors which obscure and only degrade the problem at hand.
For instance, I work at a mid-level retail chain part-time (It's not Walmart, thank god) and not ONCE have I hired a black person for less pay than I hired a white guy. Never have I given a white guy a bigger raise just because he is white. The company makes a point of hiring diversely and rewarding equally. And my store definitely isn't an 'outlier' because the chain exists all across the US, in Canada, and runs its' business in the very same manner as its' competitors. So explain to me again where Black People have 13x less median?
If you want to quote CEO's and high-level executives who are all primarily white in the US. Sure, you have a point there. But it CERTAINLY isn't their color or race that hold them from these positions. There are blacks, hispanics, and asians all in my corporate office. Hell, my District Manager is black! Imagine that! He even makes exponentially more than me, a white male! (but maybe that one's an outlier?)
The problem is education, morals, and community.
For whatever reason, and this is my own observation; nothing more, black communities seem to lack community support. There is a deep sense of brotherhood and unity between them, yes. But when it comes to social responsibility, there are massive short-comings. Often times coming down to 'every man for himself'. And these short comings are what are largely responsible for their 'inhibition' in society that everyone is so worked up about.
My District manager is smart, clean, well organized, and efficient. He gets the job done, looks good doing it, and treats everyone amazingly. In return he is well celebrated and was able to move up the ranks pretty fast. Again, he is black.
But how do you think corporate management is going to look at another black male with sagging pants, a turned-bill, dirty dreads, a poor vocabulary, and the presence of an attitude? You think that is what management sees as hire-able material?
It's not the color of their skin that hurts them, it is the attitude and unfortunately that has developed into some pretty unfair stereotypes. So if blacks want to 'earn as much as whites', or as I think it should be put instead 'occupy the same jobs that others do', then they need to band together and start taking their image seriously. Improve it, be the higher ground. Don't just sit around and point the finger, claiming everyone is out to get you. If for 50 years more blacks went to higher education, stuck with it, stayed away from drugs, actively tried to leave the ghetto, educated their children, raised them to be fair and honest; then in two generations there would be no 'racial inequality'. Just good ol' fashioned racism, which is easy to defeat on its own in my opinion.
But for now, and this is a human trait not a black one specifically, it is easier to point the finger and say someone else is keeping you down.
I mean for fucks sake, there are schools for blacks only, scholarships only blacks can apply for, communities only blacks are allowed into. Media that is specifically geared towards the black population, hell even apparel that is geared towards them. So don't tell me they're viewed as second citizens. Maybe to the casual racist, but society makes a big attempt to give them a leg up. There ain't no school for asians or whites only. I guarantee it, at least not in the US.
tl;dr
It's not race, its responsibility and no one wants to accept that.[/QUOTE]
tl;dr i personally know a handful of successful black people therefore all the other black people are just lazy.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;46730809]tl;dr i personally know a handful of successful black people therefore all the other black people are just lazy.[/QUOTE]
Aww thanks, i just couldn't find the way to say it and you did it for me. Clearly you didn't even fucking read my post or put thought into it.
Just like the rest of the god damned world, you'd rather ridicule and scoff rather than think and consider. Get off your fucking high horse.
I know TWO successful black guys in my life, that I can say make good money. I don't know a handful, I know TWO. The rest work with me or mid-level jobs akin to mine. Now I guess you could constitute that as successful, I do. They've got a job, supporting a family, and paying their bills.
I'm not saying every black guy looks thuggish and walks around with their pants around the ankles, but I sure do see a LOT of it and usually they're the one's complaining the white man is keeping them down. My DM has never spoken of inequality outside of experiencing racist comments or the usual bigotry, but nothing that was holding him back in his career or success in his life.
But he also went to College, finished, works hard, supports a family, and does what ANY good American should be. Like we don't feel insecure about our race or feel threatened by another at some given point.
This is why people can't talk about this though, specifically White People. Because automatically they're shot into this special category of "You don't get a vote", and god help you if you try to speak up about your opinion..
[QUOTE=Keys;46732615]I know TWO successful black guys in my life, that I can say make good money. I don't know a handful, I know TWO. The rest work with me or mid-level jobs akin to mine. Now I guess you could constitute that as successful, I do. They've got a job, supporting a family, and paying their bills.[/QUOTE]
okay so all of the figures about institutionalised racism are false because you know two successful black guys?
[quote]I'm not saying every black guy looks thuggish and walks around with their pants around the ankles, but I sure do see a LOT of it[/quote]
wow
[quote]My DM has never spoken of inequality outside of experiencing racist comments or the usual bigotry, but nothing that was holding him back in his career or success in his life.[/quote]
okay so what. margaret thatcher was also prime minister of the united kingdom. she never spoke out about female oppression or feminism. so therefore go home everyone, there's no need for feminism to exist anymore. look - someone who is female managed to be successful, therefore all other unsuccessful women, all those women who do as good if not a better job than men, but get paid less, you're all just dumb bitches who should work harder because there's nothing holding you back. i mean if maggie thatcher did it, why can't you?
you're applying the same logic here. it's like "yo look black people, obama is president. so therefore racism is dead. racism is no longer a thing because a black man was able to become the president". it's so terribly ignorant and hides from the facts that black people are still woefully disadvantaged and discriminated against by most institutions. the numbers don't lie. they're numbers
but because you know TWO successful black people, you've decided that all black people just need to pull themselves up and try harder. cos if you walk in a particular way and wear certain fashion trends you're just a nigger right. so who gives a fuck if you live in what is practically a slum, go to one of the worst schools in the country, have to sell drugs just to get by... just work harder you lazy scumbag and go to college like a GOOD american
you're full of shit
[quote]But he also went to College, finished, works hard, supports a family, and does what ANY good American should be.[/quote]
is this a parody
[quote]This is why people can't talk about this though, specifically White People. Because automatically they're shot into this special category of "You don't get a vote", and god help you if you try to speak up about your opinion..[/quote]
what does this even mean
[editline]17th December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Keys;46730750]I mean for fucks sake, there are schools for blacks only, scholarships only blacks can apply for, communities only blacks are allowed into. Media that is specifically geared towards the black population, hell even apparel that is geared towards them[/QUOTE]
wtf how are you possibly viewing any of that as a positive thing? like, there are scholarships for black people only because it is so difficult for most black people to have enough money to get into college in the first place. affirmative action isn't a sunny walk in the park that makes life easy for all black people, it's just one of many necessary actions to try to force the wealth inequality between races to shrink
but it's a pretty piss poor effort when the root of the issue lies so much deeper than that
a lot of black people dont want to go to college. they don't want to go to a white man's institution where they learn to be "proper" americans. they've grown up in terrible impoverished communities and gone to god awful schools, some of the worst in the western world, and had awful experiences with anything curated by the state. they don't want to play by the rules of the state and be a part of it. and can you fucking blame them seriously? america has a worse track record with black people than fucking south africa - a country that literally had laws that made it okay to separate the races way worse than the southern states of america, that were only repealed like 30 years ago
and why do you think black-centric media is a positive thing? half of the time it's exploitation, the other half of the time it exists out of necessity because so much of the black population is so terribly jaded with white america that they don't want to have any part of it
[quote]There ain't no school for asians or whites only[/quote]
uh wow i wonder why maybe it's because every school is already geared towards white people anyway? there's a black history month and black schools and black scholarships because black people have been and still are a systematically impoverished and exploited group - they need the help and they need their moments of pride and distinction to remain unified and to have a voice
wanna know what a white school is? all of them. white history month? all of the months. white scholarships? all of them. if you get the best start in life - being a white person - then the propensity to succeed is much much higher. you are trusted more, you are able to go to better schools, get a better education, go to a better college, get a higher paid job
how do you expect black people from the ghetto to get to that same level without a horrendously disproportionate amount of effort
[quote]It's not race, its responsibility and no one wants to accept that.[/quote]
pathetic
Well yeah, white people are unscrupulous as fuck. To get a head in a some of the more accessible industries you have to give up part of who you are, change your attitude and lick boot. And white people are great at that. Other races tend to actually have pride for one's self and even their community, and that doesn't get you terribly far in places that require you to fuck people over to get ahead. The better you blend, the further you get ahead. I'm not saying racism doesn't exist that's dumb, relax.
I'm just saying it's a hell of a lot easier to mold a cultureless white dude into a model employee than a black man who already has a defined idea of who they want to be. Western white people are the most dishonest group i've come across, is it any surprise they get ahead in dishonest industries.
I've quit a couple jobs just because they either were completely using me or telling me to lie to customers, and really it's no big deal for them; They all roll over and one fell out.
[QUOTE=Parakon;46734446]Well yeah, white people are unscrupulous as fuck. To get a head in a some of the more accessible industries you have to give up part of who you are, change your attitude and lick boot. And white people are great at that. Other races tend to actually have pride for one's self and even their community, and that doesn't get you terribly far in places that require you to fuck people over to get ahead. The better you blend, the further you get ahead. I'm not saying racism doesn't exist that's dumb, relax.
I'm just saying it's a hell of a lot easier to mold a cultureless white dude into a model employee than a black man who already has a defined idea of who they want to be. Western white people are the most dishonest group i've come across, is it any surprise they get ahead in dishonest industries.
I've quit a couple jobs just because they either were completely using me or telling me to lie to customers, and really it's no big deal for them; They all roll over and one fell out.[/QUOTE]
Seriously, did you just try to make an argument that white people have no culture or cultural identity? That holds roughly the same amount of racism as - black culture is gangsta culture and utterly violent.
I have zero input on European white people but North American? Hells yeah.
[QUOTE=Parakon;46734688]I have zero input on European white people but North American? Hells yeah.[/QUOTE]
Yeah takes about five minutes with a cultural rake to find plenty of white american culture, beginning with the beatniks.
Maybe your issue is, that many are able to separate the professional from the personal, which you seem to not be able to.
[QUOTE=Parakon;46734688]I have zero input on European white people but North American? Hells yeah.[/QUOTE]
What you talking about mate don't you know all us white Americans are actually Irish?
[QUOTE=wraithcat;46734739]Yeah takes about five minutes with a cultural rake to find plenty of white american culture, beginning with the beatniks.
Maybe your issue is, that many are able to separate the professional from the personal, which you seem to not be able to.[/QUOTE]
If lying to a customer i'm suppose to be helping to keep a number that tracks how "good" i'm doing is professional than i'm OK with being unprofessional. The only thing I switch on when I go to work is my swear filter. I refuse to offer up what few principles I have for a buck.
[editline]17th December 2014[/editline]
I'm not saying North America has no culture, I've seen many people subscribe to different groups and ideas. And I've also seen them sacrifice what they say they believe whenever it became inconvenient. I've seen poor and rich do it, most of the time they just want to feel as if they belong somewhere. A fair few do stick to their shit and just end up falling off the face of the earth because the system seems to have an issue with integrity.
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