[QUOTE=Bat-shit;32080368]Yeah I can only imagine.. But confronting the killer, forgiving him and telling him that you actually love him, that is the kinda attitude I'd expect from all humans.
But that's just some world peace hippie love bullshit I guess, but there's something to it...[/QUOTE]
This post would even even a hippie want to buy a suit and stock in Haliburton.
Hate when they pass of this as "insanity" and let them off with a slap on the wrist
also when they blame things like video games
To actually take a life... albeit with a fucking rock thats so large the guys in court struggled to hold it with one hand, its like hax at life. as stupid as that may sound
If I was a parent I would disown him.
Well, I'd actually question the killers parens parenting. Something must have gone horribly wrong in his life that made him do something like this.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;32080550]Well, I'd actually question the killers parens parenting. Something must have gone horribly wrong in his life that made him do something like this.[/QUOTE]
Even if something went horribly wrong in his life that led him to do this, which is very likely, it might not necessarily be the parents' fault.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;32080585]Even if something went horribly wrong in his life that led him to do this, which is very likely, it might not necessarily be the parents' fault.[/QUOTE]
No, but that's most likely and that's where you should look first.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;32080648]No, but that's most likely and that's where you should look first.[/QUOTE]
But the murder already happened and the girl is dead so that would only be an attempt at making the parents feel worse than they already do.
:(
[QUOTE=Miskav;32080026]most people's problem with death penalty isn't the morality, it's the fact that it some-how costs a lot more than life imprisonment.
That's the larger problem here; the system is so redundant in certain areas that death penalty is more expensive than life imprisonment.[/QUOTE]I agree with you about the redundancy, in situations like this a speedy system would be most efficient. However, I'm torn on the issue if there's circumstantial or otherwise incomplete evidence and still a guilty verdict has been passed down. Here's where that pesky morality thing comes in for me, as I can put myself into the position of being falsely accused and a quick system wouldn't work there. At least then I could agree, yeah, it would be morally and ethically wrong to execute [i]anyone[/i] found guilty of murder, but if there's without a shadow of a doubt then why the hell not?
As for the reasoning of one being against the death penalty, the usual response is something along the lines of "that's barbaric! You can't kill people for any reason ever!"[QUOTE=MrJazzy;32080043]But how can we decide who has the right to live or die, is that really up to us, do we have the knowledge to judge that?[/QUOTE]Well, that's the kicker. In this case it's brutally obvious that he did, in fact, murder that girl and there's not really a doubt. Is he honestly a valuable contribution to society? Will he ever be? If there's a mental reason for this and he's legitimately crazy, I don't think so. You could even argue he's not "human" because he lacks the mental faculties to feel remorse, empathy and truly understand what he did. If he's a product of a poor upbringing, still, will he amount to anything in his life? Then there's the greater question: will he kill again? Deciding who lives and who dies is something for the criminal justice system and the whole reason why the appeal system exists. Just in case he was somehow framed for this or it's just a sad misunderstanding.
However, this is a special case in that he's clearly guilty, everything points to him without a shadow of a doubt. I don't think he's entitled to human rights because, well, he's a murderer. It goes back to my argument that society will never accept him. There is something inherently wrong about cold murder, it's a common trait in societies throughout history (though the definition of murder sometimes varies) and perhaps it's hard-coded into our brains. I don't know.[QUOTE=MrJazzy;32080305]Yeah that's a good point, imprisoning someone is arguable just as bad as killing someone. I'm not sure what to make of it.[/QUOTE]Here we get to the even deeper questions. Which is worse? Why is it worse? This is one of the reasons why I'm semi-serious about an Escape from New York type prison system. You're cutting them off from society with minimal costs, letting them roam on their own in a large enclosure. Maybe even they can carve out a life there rather than among the normal citizens which, really, is the whole point of this discussion.[QUOTE=Bat-shit;32080368]Yeah I can only imagine.. But confronting the killer, forgiving him and telling him that you actually love him, that is the kinda attitude I'd expect from all humans.
But that's just some world peace hippie love bullshit I guess, but there's something to it...[/QUOTE][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish_school_shooting[/url]
The Amish forgave the guy who killed those kids, even reached out to his family.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;32080706]But the murder already happened and the girl is dead so that would only be an attempt at making the parents feel worse than they already do.
:([/QUOTE]
It's not about revenge or anything like that, it's about - as I've said before - understanding why this happened and why it was even in the mind of the boy.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;32080806]It's not about revenge or anything like that, it's about - as I've said before - understanding why this happened and why it was even in the mind of the boy.[/QUOTE]
So you are trying to make sense out of what is senseless.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;32080836]So you are trying to make sense out of what is senseless.[/QUOTE]
But it isn't senseless.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;32080836]So you are trying to make sense out of what is senseless.[/QUOTE]
You're not going to know if it's senseless if you never probe into the cause.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;32080858]But it isn't senseless.[/QUOTE]
Okay.
[editline]3rd September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32080905]You're not going to know if it's senseless if you never probe into the cause.[/QUOTE]
Humanity has been struggling with what I'd call senseless violence for as long as I bother to turn the history book pages. So finding the cause to that now seems hopeless to me!
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;32080836]So you are trying to make sense out of what is senseless.[/QUOTE]
There's always some kind of thought process going into a murder, however vague and irrational it may be.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;32080924]Humanity has been struggling with what I'd call senseless violence for as long as I bother to turn the history book pages. So finding the cause to that now seems hopeless to me![/QUOTE]
Yup, fuck it. Let's just give up on our world.
[QUOTE=ThisGuy0;32081239]There's always some kind of thought process going into a murder, however vague and irrational it may be.[/QUOTE]
depends on the definition of murder.
For example, without medications I get random bursts of rage whenever something even slightly annoys me, my vision goes black and I come to a few minutes/half an hour later.
I've sent quite a few guys to the hospital while in high school (before I had my meds) and if I had kept hitting this one guy a while longer I could've ended up killing him.
Now I can assure you there's no thought process involved there.
Psychotic people can arguably be seen the same way, there isn't a thought involved.
[QUOTE=ThisGuy0;32081239]There's always some kind of thought process going into a murder, however vague and irrational it may be.[/QUOTE]
I'm not even sure who or what I'm arguing about here, but yes if you want to murder someone successfully you better put some thought process into it. If you don't, you are fucked, like this guy who killed the girl.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;32079972]
To the rest of you:
I keep getting boxes because I'm obviously pro-death for these types of people and I know why: everyone bawws and gets emotional. A good portion of FP is so idealistic and plain naive that they fail to look at this in a rational manner. I try, very hard, to keep my opinion on this focused on raw facts. There is no logical reason for we, the taxpayers, to keep these individuals alive or around. We're essentially taking resources and throwing it into a black hole. There's no rational reason for a society to blow money on assholes who are, for lack of a better term, broken.[/QUOTE]
it costs more to excecute people than it does to keep them in prison for the rest of their lives
[editline]3rd September 2011[/editline]
[url]http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-03-07-exepensive-to-execute_N.htm[/url]
People like this should just be expunged from society, by whatever means costs the least of our tax money. Whatever it takes so he can't ever harm anyone ever again.
I thought it was proven that he was already going to do it, but his friend said he'd give him the breakfast anyway? Either way, this is absolutely sickening.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;32077012]Oh for fucks sake, does no-one get this?
Human rights are rights. THEY ARE IRREVOCABLE. THEY CANNOT BE REMOVED OR THEY ARE NOT RIGHTS. Ok?
Sorry about that, but it seems like every fucking "news" article from this country doesn't know that.[/QUOTE]
you hit the nail on the head halfway through
we don't have rights, we have privileges. privileges that we've had pounded into our head since fifth grade social studies to believe nobody can take away from us. but of course they can be revoked. basically anybody in a position of real power (primarily the government, but I'd also argue anyone with enough money, ie to buy off cops) can take away your "irrevocable" rights anytime they become inconvenient to them.
japanese-american/canadian internment in the second world war
before anyone brings it up, yes i'm lifting this almost directly from one of george carlin's routines but he's right and he was a very smart man
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWiBt-pqp0E[/media]
[QUOTE=thispieiscold;32084044]it costs more to excecute people than it does to keep them in prison for the rest of their lives
[editline]3rd September 2011[/editline]
[url]http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-03-07-exepensive-to-execute_N.htm[/url][/QUOTE]Okay, we used a five guys, paid minimum wage, firing deer rifles that cost a hundred dollars each and the cheapest ammo we can get for the firing squad. There, it's now infinitely less expensive than life imprisonment.
[QUOTE=Bryanrocks0;32076786]This is the girl, kind of good looking if you ask me.
[img]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/10/26/article-1323482-0BC4A5BF000005DC-2_468x402.jpg[/img]
And this is the killer, he looks like the kind of kid who would do it. Just looking at this picture of him makes me want to punch him.
[img]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/28/article-2019409-0D306A2100000578-793_306x423.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Because people look amazing in prison photos :v:
I've heard Swansea is a shithole city full of shithead kids.
[B]HE DIDN'T KILL HER FOR FOOD[/B]
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;32085056]Okay, we used a five guys, paid minimum wage, firing deer rifles that cost a hundred dollars each and the cheapest ammo we can get for the firing squad. There, it's now infinitely less expensive than life imprisonment.[/QUOTE] This is how they used to do it, and it's surprisingly efficient. Instant death means no unneeded pain, and it doesn't take tons of chemicals to do the job over a longer period of time. It's a bit dirtier though, but it's no guillotine in that regard.
[editline]2nd September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Chilean;32085286][B]HE DIDN'T KILL HER FOR FOOD[/B][/QUOTE]
No shit, the media is just retarded. He's just another sick fuck with problems who planned and carried out a cold-blooded murder.
I hope this cunt hangs. If someone killed my daughter, I'd do it myself.
Her photo makes me sad because she looks like a really nice person
