UK government bans calculators from primary school maths tests
123 replies, posted
Calculations including Sin/Cos/Tan will be fucking time wasting....
Why does the education system have to turn to shit JUST as I start to leave it?
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;38387572]Whoops, yes. [I]One[/I] of the sides.
I can't believe most of my class is planning on teaching math and can't do this in under 10 minutes.[/QUOTE]
That is pretty upsetting to think about. I'm actually considering a teaching career instead of a PhD in maths because I know how it feels to be ahead and lack a genuinely good teacher ever since my gift and talented coordinator retired
[QUOTE=Dead Madman;38387580]Calculations including Sin/Cos/Tan will be fucking time wasting....
Why does the education system have to turn to shit JUST as I start to leave it?[/QUOTE]
Primary school, they won't be dealing with anything that level
If it's only tests they're banning calculators in whats the problem? For anyone younger than 11 it's important to learn how to use simple maths without resorting to a calculator
[QUOTE=Dead Madman;38387580]Calculations including Sin/Cos/Tan will be fucking time wasting....
Why does the education system have to turn to shit JUST as I start to leave it?[/QUOTE]
It's primary school, I doubt that they'll be dealing with that.
[img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/clock.png[/img]
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;38387424]I took a quiz yesterday in history of math. For the second question we had to find the Pythagorean triple with 13 as one of the sides, and we were given Euclid's formula for generating triples.
I finished in about 3-5 minutes along with a few others. Most of the class took 15+ minutes. Around then, the professor said the remaining people can use calculators. 6 people took another 15 minutes, a half hour in total, with a calculator for half of that time. One girl brute forced every possible Pythagorean triple with a calculator until she found the right one.
These were senior math students and math education students, at a university.
If UK students are anywhere near as awful, please take away their calculators. There's no excuse for this.[/QUOTE]
I've never heard of the Pythagorean triple. Huh. Must wiki this.
[QUOTE=Dead Madman;38387580]Calculations including Sin/Cos/Tan will be fucking time wasting....
Why does the education system have to turn to shit JUST as I start to leave it?[/QUOTE]
It'd actually be valuable to teach students the truncated Taylor series for Sin(x) and Cos(x), it'd show another reason Radians are better than degrees too
The lowest standard of maths should be to multiply instantly for numbers up to 10 and add three digit numbers in your head at an acceptable speed. Even the dumbest of people in my school can do that. Anyone can if they learn to structure problems in their heads different to how you structure them on paper.
[QUOTE=SadisticGecko;38387787]I've never heard of the Pythagorean triple. Huh. Must wiki this.[/QUOTE]
Integers a, b, c such that a^2 + b^2 = c^2, usually a < b < c.
If you were told one of the sides was 13, you could deduce 2 triples if you knew how.
If a = 13, you could say that b = (13^2 - 1)/2 and c = (13^2 + 1 )/2 give you 13, 84, 85 as a triple.
If c = 13, assert that b = 12 and therefore a^2 = 12 + 13, giving you 5, 12, 13 as your other triple.
Seeing which students can deduce that methodology would allow teachers to give them the help they need.
This is law in Argentina, IMO the only classes you should be allowed to use calculators in are the ones where the calculator doesn't give you the result of a problem after punching what's written on the test in the machine (polynomes/equations) or it's too tedious to do it by hand (square roots for example)
[QUOTE=sambooo;38387889]Integers a, b, c such that a^2 + b^2 = c^2, usually a < b < c.
If you were told one of the sides was 13, you could deduce 2 triples if you knew how.
If a = 13, you could say that b = (13^2 - 1)/2 and c = (13^2 + 1 )/2 give you 13, 84, 85 as a triple.
If c = 13, assert that b = 12 and therefore a^2 = 12 + 13, giving you 5, 12, 13 as your other triple.
Seeing which students can deduce that methodology would allow teachers to give them the help they need.[/QUOTE]
That's essentially the Pythagorean theorem. I.e a^2+b^2 = c^2. Alternatively sqrt(a^2+b^2), as I was taught it. Depending on what numbers are given depends on how the formula is arranged.
[QUOTE=SadisticGecko;38387934]That's essentially the Pythagorean theorem. I.e a^2+b^2 = c^2. Alternatively sqrt(a^2+b^2), as I was taught it. Depending on what numbers are given depends on how the formula is arranged.[/QUOTE]
Showing that numbers fit the theorem is fine, finding the other two given one is more challenging
According to my fiancee, the switch to "common core" in the states is partially an attempt at focusing teaching methods more at the ability to understand why math works the way it does.
I still think we should not teach kids how to do simple math without teaching them how to derive it first. It is more important to the core principles to understand [B]why[/B] things work, not memorizing a table of which things do and don't.
[QUOTE=Doozle;38385876]I'd be fucked, I still have to use my fingers to do times table. And remember milestones like 5x[/QUOTE]
I can't even count to 100 without losing count:v:
[QUOTE=sambooo;38387987]Showing that numbers fit the theorem is fine, finding the other two given one is more challenging[/QUOTE]
I was never required to do much else, even when I went into college level calculus. My major is more science based anyway.
I think it's a good idea.
Before I used a calculator back in elementary school I was really good at mental math, now I'm slow as shit and haven't progressed much further doing it mentally.
[QUOTE=-Get_A_Life-;38386254]Learning basic maths is necessary, the amount of dumb people not even knowing their multiplication tables is horrendous. I'm totally ok with this.[/QUOTE]
actual skill in mathematics =/= multiplication tables
rote learning times tables is the dumbest thing and you should feel bad for advocating it
[QUOTE=Dead Madman;38387580]Calculations including Sin/Cos/Tan will be fucking time wasting....
Why does the education system have to turn to shit JUST as I start to leave it?[/QUOTE]
You don't use sin/cos/tan until like 3rd year in the uk iirc
That's pretty much how it is in N.Ireland, but it's probably different in other parts of the UK
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;38388594]You don't use sin/cos/tan until like 3rd year in the uk iirc
That's pretty much how it is in N.Ireland, but it's probably different in other parts of the UK[/QUOTE]
3rd year of what might I ask?
you shouldn't need a fucking calculator for + - x /
[QUOTE=acds;38385826]See no reason for them to not use one. Some students will use their head anyway,[B] but the important thing is knowing the rules and applying them, not being good at crunching numbers in your head.[/B][/QUOTE]
Wrong. Mental math is qualitatively better for your mental capabilities than simple application of concepts.
[QUOTE=Neural Correlates of Simple and Complex Mental Calculation]Regional cerebral blood flow was measured with positron emission tomography while subjects were at rest (Rest), read digits (Read), retrieved simple arithmetic facts from memory (i.e., 2 × 4, Retrieve), and performed mental complex calculation (i.e., 32 × 24, Compute). Compared to Read, Retrieve engaged a left parieto-premotor circuit representing a developmental trace of a finger-counting representation that mediates, by extension, the numerical knowledge in adult. Beside this basic network, Retrieve involved a naming network, including the left anterior insula and the right cerebellar cortex, while it did not engage the perisylvian language areas, which were deactivated as compared to Rest. In addition to this retrieval network, Compute specifically involved two functional networks: a left parieto-frontal network in charge of the holding of the multidigit numbers in visuospatial working memory and a bilateral inferior temporal gyri related to the visual mental imagery resolution strategy.[/QUOTE]
Mental math is [I]extremely[/I] important.
Calculators for the most part I feel shouldn't be used. Especially by elementary school students. You don't need nor should need a calculator to perform basic multiplication, division, subtraction and addition. Heck, I am able to do a lot of that in my head even when dealing with fairly large or convoluted numbers. The only calculators that should be included in school should be when you start moving towards advanced math such as geometry, algebra II and pre calculus. Within those subjects, you run into far more numbers that don't solve well and rely on functions that would take a ridiculously long time to solve by hand. Graphing is also an incredibly useful tool on calculators. However, I was able to get through a physics test without a calculator, had to break out the long division and lots of multiplication to do that.
[QUOTE=Kalibos;38388936]you shouldn't need a fucking calculator for + - x /[/QUOTE]
Okay then, without a calculator please work out the following: 360 ÷ 3.141 × 92.5 - 5 + 7.33
Mental maths has its place as does using a calculator.
[QUOTE=Jsm;38390845]Okay then, without a calculator please work out the following: 360 ÷ 3.141 × 92.5 - 5 + 7.33[/QUOTE]
not really that hard if you know your PEMDAS
[editline]10th November 2012[/editline]
a mind boggling amount of people does not have a basic understanding of order of operation
[QUOTE=Jsm;38390845]Okay then, without a calculator please work out the following: 360 ÷ 3.141 × 92.5 - 5 + 7.33
Mental maths has its place as does using a calculator.[/QUOTE]
Bad example. Simply picking something which has enough size to interfere with human short term memory doesn't justify use of a calculator, it justifies a piece of paper.
What are 11 year olds learning that would warrant a calculator in the first place? Basic multiplication should be learned mentally. Calculators are just there to save time for more advanced equations.
They said I'd never pass highschool if I couldn't write in cursive
everything is typed now
They said I'd need to learn long division if I want to do any maths in my life
I use a $200 graphics calculator to figure out 12÷4 :v:
[QUOTE=Thom12255;38385922]I have never been able to use my fingers to do anything in maths, it makes me more confused.[/QUOTE]
I could count up to 99 with my fingers.I'm surprised that such way of counting is not widespread its pretty useful
I don't disagree with this...
You should know how to do the 4 basic operations without a calculator.
But after elementary school or whatever you guys call it, I'd say its better to have a calculator of any kind.
I live in Virginia in the USA. It was like this when I was in elementary school
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;38391399]I don't disagree with this...
You should know how to do the 4 basic operations without a calculator.
But after elementary school or whatever you guys call it, I'd say its better to have a calculator of any kind.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that they need to be taught how to use a calculator before being expected to use it for complex things, and because of the way the wonderful UK education system works no test = no need to teach it.
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