• UK government bans calculators from primary school maths tests
    123 replies, posted
Something my school did is that we had a separate Math class that just emphasized on making quick calculus without calculators, or doing simple algebra quickly, and it seriously helped me out. It for example taught me of ways to do quick long multiplication by decomposing numbers into easier to multiply ones, and that's something most school pupils aren't explicitely taught, but comes incredibly handy in real life.
Heh, I was never allowed a calculator in primary school (during tests).
[QUOTE=Jsm;38390845]Okay then, without a calculator please work out the following: 360 ÷ 3.141 × 92.5 - 5 + 7.33[/QUOTE] you're an idiot
[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;38385355]I've never used a calculator in a math test, only physics. I find it better to not use a calculator, makes you think more.[/QUOTE] Really? i seem to get a headache from tossing around so many numbers in my head, and the worst times are when you forget something and need to start over from scratch. Coming from a person that fucking hates writing on paper.
[QUOTE=zombini;38392486]Really? i seem to get a headache from tossing around so many numbers in my head, and the worst times are when you forget something and need to start over from scratch. Coming from a person that fucking hates writing on paper.[/QUOTE] If it's a good prof, they won't grade on your ability to do basic math. If you can hold off on substituting in actual numbers for your variables until the last steps, you've probably demonstrated you know how to use the concepts of what you're being tested over
I don't think I was allowed to use a calculator in school until I got to middle school and took algebra. I'm pretty decent at doing math in my head, and I can do most crap on paper if I have to, so I guess it worked out fine for me. [editline]10th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Greenen72;38392516]If it's a good prof, they won't grade on your ability to do basic math. If you can hold off on substituting in actual numbers for your variables until the last steps, you've probably demonstrated you know how to use the concepts of what you're being tested over[/QUOTE] Heh. Yeah I used to do Calculus tests in high school without a calculator for the most part. I'd get everything into a fraction and then do the division as my last step. Sometimes I'd just leave it as a fraction because its more accurate and like who cares about decimals.
[QUOTE=kaze4159;38391003] I use a $200 graphics calculator to figure out 12÷4 :v:[/QUOTE] And I save $200 by being able to work out that the answer is 3.
[QUOTE=AK'z;38385434]Only if you're working in retail.[/QUOTE] Not Necessarily. Mental Calculations can help do large equations(That do require calculators) more efficiently if you're good at them.
Well, when I was in school, we started using calculators when pi was first introduced. After that, counting things in your head would have taken far too much time.
I am on the fence with this one. While I think that banning them would be useful to help kids learn maths by hand would be really useful, especially when there will be tests later on where they can't use them, However having to learn to use a calculator is also important.
Good. Calculators are great tools, but allowing kids that young to use them on tests means they don't have any idea what's actually going on and can't fact-check the calculator. Basic math skills are lacking severely in the western world, and this is part of why. Glad to see they're doing something about it that may actually help.
I've got discalculia so I'd be majorly fucked if I was a youngster in the UK :v:
I didn't use calculators until secondary school with all this sin cos tan things I thought I was becoming the matrix so they should have a little bit of calculator.
[QUOTE=-Get_A_Life-;38386254]Learning basic maths is necessary, the amount of dumb people not even knowing their multiplication tables is horrendous. I'm totally ok with this.[/QUOTE] Learning the times tables by rote isn't maths. It's quite useful but I wouldn't call someone dumb because they can't. I'm doing A-level further maths and most my class don't know their times tables by rote. [editline]10th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=sambooo;38388908]3rd year of what might I ask?[/QUOTE] Secondary school, year 9. Probably the same as 9th Grade if you start at the same time as us (4 years old). [editline]10th November 2012[/editline] Thinking about it I don't think I used a calculator till secondary school in maths lessons.
[QUOTE=Kingy_ME;38394002]Learning the times tables by rote isn't maths. It's quite useful but I wouldn't call someone dumb because they can't. I'm doing A-level further maths and most my class don't know their times tables by rote. [/QUOTE] While I agree, being able to add/subtract/multiply/divide three digit numbers without a calculator is something anyone should be able to do with nothing more than pen and paper. Letting schoolkids that young use calculators means they never even develop that basic foundation for math, rendering them completely reliant on calculators to calculate anything. Such skills are used daily when dealing with money, for example. Or calculating fuel mileage.
Good. When I was in primary school I used a calculator, and now my mental math skills are complete shit.
This is the type of question on the Year 6 SATS calculator paper for those wondering: [IMG]http://i50.tinypic.com/2wrklud.png[/IMG] full exam: [url]http://www.st-josephs-pickering.n-yorks.sch.uk/SATs%20papers/Maths%20SATs%20papers/Maths%202010/2010%20maths%20Test%20B.pdf[/url]
[QUOTE=Kingy_ME;38394002]Learning the times tables by rote isn't maths. It's quite useful but I wouldn't call someone dumb because they can't. I'm doing A-level further maths and most my class don't know their times tables by rote. [editline]10th November 2012[/editline] Secondary school, year 9. Probably the same as 9th Grade if you start at the same time as us (4 years old). [editline]10th November 2012[/editline] Thinking about it I don't think I used a calculator till secondary school in maths lessons.[/QUOTE] I'm from the UK, I just assumed you meant university because of the way you phrased that. Makes more sense now.
[QUOTE=Jsm;38390845]Okay then, without a calculator please work out the following: 360 ÷ 3.141 × 92.5 - 5 + 7.33 Mental maths has its place as does using a calculator.[/QUOTE] Not even a challenge if you have a pen and a piece of paper. [editline]10th November 2012[/editline] As said before, you are an idiot.
there are all kinds of situations when you need to do some basic math everyday. If you need to pull out a calculator multiple times per day because you can't add and multiply then you're fucked.
[QUOTE=matt.ant;38394823]This is the type of question on the Year 6 SATS calculator paper for those wondering: [IMG]http://i50.tinypic.com/2wrklud.png[/IMG] full exam: [url]http://www.st-josephs-pickering.n-yorks.sch.uk/SATs%20papers/Maths%20SATs%20papers/Maths%202010/2010%20maths%20Test%20B.pdf[/url][/QUOTE] Do they not teach long division anymore?
[QUOTE=rinoaff33;38398939]Do they not teach long division anymore?[/QUOTE] Do you really think long division is needed for that? You can deduce that for 1/100th of the price you get 1/100th as many bricks, 5 for £2.30 then simply divide by 5.
They should make them use slide rules, amirite?
We cannot and must not have children using hammers to nail pieces of wood together. Only once a child learns to skillfully drive a nail through a piece of wood with their own hands should they move on to using hammers.
[QUOTE=Da_Maniac_;38397860]Not even a challenge if you have a pen and a piece of paper. [editline]10th November 2012[/editline] As said before, you are an idiot.[/QUOTE] So I am an idiot for posing an entirely legitimate maths (Although with the numbers made a tiny bit bigger..) question that [I]most[/I] people would struggle to do without a calculator? It kind of proves my point, you cannot rely on mental maths (which is what the thread is really about) in the same way that you cannot rely on a calculator for everything. There comes a point where using a calculator is just easier, and the same is true in reverse there a point where using a calculator is too much hassle (the 12 ÷ 3 thing posted a few posts up would be a prime example).
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;38385345]Uuuh, most maths in real life with be done with calculators, kids kind of need to learn how to use them. Why does it seem that our education system has been going backwards lately? [/QUOTE] it's actually a very useful skill to be able to even just estimate results in your head
[QUOTE=Jsm;38401278]So I am an idiot for posing an entirely legitimate maths (Although with the numbers made a tiny bit bigger..) question that [I]most[/I] people would struggle to do without a calculator?[/QUOTE] No, you're an idiot because you picked an example which doesn't require a calculator to solve easily, but [I]paper.[/I]
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;38401727]No, you're an idiot because you picked an example which doesn't require a calculator to solve easily, but [I]paper.[/I][/QUOTE] Fair enough, I was half asleep and not thinking about it properly. Mostly because the person mentioned not needing a calculator for "+ - x /". I am sure though there are thousands of examples of problems that are pointless even attempting without a calculator and thousands more where it is pointless to even go near the calculator.
[QUOTE=Reviized;38390817]Calculators for the most part I feel shouldn't be used. Especially by elementary school students. You don't need nor should need a calculator to perform basic multiplication, division, subtraction and addition. Heck, I am able to do a lot of that in my head even when dealing with fairly large or convoluted numbers. The only calculators that should be included in school should be when you start moving towards advanced math such as geometry, algebra II and pre calculus. Within those subjects, you run into far more numbers that don't solve well and rely on functions that would take a ridiculously long time to solve by hand. Graphing is also an incredibly useful tool on calculators. However, I was able to get through a physics test without a calculator, had to break out the long division and lots of multiplication to do that.[/QUOTE] I don't know what physics you were doing, almost all of it requires memorization of at least the square roots of 2 and 3 to about 4 sigfigs.
[QUOTE=Jsm;38390845]Okay then, without a calculator please work out the following: 360 ÷ 3.141 × 92.5 - 5 + 7.33 Mental maths has its place as does using a calculator.[/QUOTE] just quickly glancing at that i can say that it's going to be somewhere around 10,000 or so [editline]11th November 2012[/editline] this is without actually trying to work it out [editline]11th November 2012[/editline] in engineering and science it's pretty important to be able to at least vaguely guess where the answer to a calculation is going to end up before you do it, so that you can quickly tell if you've messed up putting the whole thing into a calculator and got a completely wrong answer also this is just generally useful, not only in those areas
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