Disability benefits: PIPs should be for 'really disabled' - Polidicks

[QUOTE=hexpunK;51879051]Modern psychology is a vastly different beast from psychology classic. Particularly when it comes to experimentation now as researchers actually have to follow ethical guidelines no matter who they are studying at the time, sane or not. Even a simple questionnaire can take a while to get past ethics committees in some cases. It's a lot harder to follow the scientific method with than a hard science like physics or computing, but it does follow the scientific method a lot more now than it did historically.[/QUOTE] Please sign my petition if you disagree with George Freeman's £3.7Bn cuts! [url]https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-mental-disabilities-a-condition-not-a-lifestyle-choice?recruiter=687437531&utm_source=petitions_show_components_action_panel_wrapper&utm_medium=copylink[/url] [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("spam" - OvB))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Reviized;51879006]I had previously heard that psychology (and some other disciplines) didn't really apply the scientific method when conducting research, or at least hadn't until recently. The example kind of being the usage of electroshock therapy, and other drugs as potential treatments for mental issues without actually applying the scientific method (this is going back a fair ways). That's the only real defining line between "science" and "non-science" is whether or not a discipline at the very least attempts to apply the scientific method to experimentation. After looking it up it seems that you're right however, and that while there has been quackery in psychology (and other disciplines as well), the field appears to apply the same principles as any other discipline. I edited my statement above.[/QUOTE] Aye. Stuff like electroschock therapy comes less from psychology and more from medicine, which can be hazy at best in terms of its use of science. The prevalence of evidence-based medicine helped alleviate this, but due to the complexity of humans and the fact that peoples lives are generally at stake, medicine can often end up being a case of 'eh it seems to work.' Funnily enough, due to the hype associated with neuroscience, a lot of sketchy studies can attain significant attention that they wouldn't otherwise, which is part of the issue with it. This is also a problem with psychology as well, with things like personality tests, which aren't particularly rigorous, but people hold on to them anyway and feel more validated due to their association with science.

Maybe we need, oh I dunno, some kind of mental healthcare in this country? Don't think it's doing anyone any favours when it takes 8 months just to start a bloody CBT course. But of course they'll wheel out the "benefits for only the "proper" disabilities" line like clockwork only to be cheered on by the bastards that can only punch down.

Tories would turn down benefits to any disabled person without a wheelchair and justify it by pointing at the disabled icon

The statement seems logical at first, like yeah of course not disabled people shouldn't be getting disability allowances, until you realise that 'really disabled' doesn't include any mental disabilities and most physical disabilities when the Tories want to cut the deficit. I also think the most egregious part about this is that this isn't going to save any money, only hurt people, things like this are a drop in the bucket as far as government spending goes, the act is merely symbolic, there is no benefit to this.

[QUOTE=Ishwoo;51878733]I think this is more aimed at lazy NEETs than people who have physical problems. the government is probably wondering why some people are getting like £1600 a month from the taxpayer for being depressed/anxious when in reality a large % of working people also suffer from it. I understand there are genuine sufferers but it'd be naive to think it's not being abused.[/QUOTE] The issue is that the abuse of the system is so laughably exaggerated that in trying to ~tackle benefit scroungers!~ the Tory cunts are just spending a fortune and making life miserable for thousands of vulnerable people, so they can possibly prevent one bloke from faking that he has bad back every now and then because the system is just too horrible for anyone who isn't absolutely reliant on it to want to go anywhere near it. All that money and all that suffering because of the odd person fiddling the system? It's just not worth it. The problems caused far outweigh problems solved.

Stop being such a bunch of GIRLS and just cheer up ya stingy lazy bludgers

These kinds of people simply don't want to provide health care to those in need. Welfare abuse is, and has always been a non-issue. Normal people don't game the system like everyone seems to believe. That kind of abuse couldn't be stopped by any piece of government legislation anyways. They don't know anything about the world around them and only care about lining their own fucking pockets. When will people like this stop being put into power?

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51878674]Having anxiety is not a reason to claim disability.[/QUOTE] It is, having been on benifits when I was younger for depression (only after I attempted to kill myself) and having anxiety so badly that I more or less missed 2 years of school (Year 9 I was in for a month and a half max). It meant that my mother (single) couldn't work. So yes, anxiety is a flipping reason.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51878778]No, it shouldn't. There's medicine for that. I bet you also think people should get disability for having OCD.[/QUOTE] Medicine isn't a magical cure. I have multiple sources of anxiety, the worst being crippling social anxiety. I've been taking medicine for it for about 4 years and though it helps with my worst most extreme problems, I still have an incredible amount of trouble interacting with people and it causes me such a massive amount of anxiety that I basically have to stop what I'm doing and go be alone to calm down or else I'd have a freakout. I can't really interact with people for even just a short time because I panic too much which makes it really hard to work, though I'm still trying to do so. Just because there's medicine for it doesn't mean it gets fixed immediately. I still have to work on repairing the rest of the issues myself because as my therapist has told me, medication can only go so far. Basically medicine helps you manage some pieces of it, but it doesn't completely remove it at all.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51878778]No, it shouldn't. There's medicine for that. I bet you also think people should get disability for having OCD.[/QUOTE] Hi. I have anxiety. Medicine didn't help me in any way (and it may have fucked my sleeping patterns when I was on it)

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51878778]No, it shouldn't. There's medicine for that. I bet you also think people should get disability for having OCD.[/QUOTE] Hi, My girlfriend's anti anxiety meds slow her heart-rate to the point where she becomes genuinely sleep tired just walking at a leisurely pace, tell me more about how she's supposed to work a 9-5 job on those?

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51878674]Having anxiety is not a reason to claim disability. [/QUOTE] Actually there's been several studies that link mental illness to a biological factor and discussion on whether the ADA should reclassify things like Anxiety, Depression, and Substance abuse as mental disabilities. You might think that something like anxiety and depression needs time to heal. And while time CAN heal it, it should be considered a disability because they develop from life experience. When you see things like PTSD, they're considered mental disabilities because you can't remove the event that caused it, you can only ease the pain. In many cases, you can't remove an event that causes lifetime anxiety or depression, only ease them. Classifying stuff like depression and anxiety as a disability helps people get the help they need and paid for by insurance. They're very real mental disorders that can severely inhibit daily life.

Speaking as someone diagnosed with an anxiety disorder, I think disability benefits for those with anxiety [I]can[/I] be an enabler and can worsen symptoms of anxiety. But this [I]definitely isn't always true[/I]. My anxiety mostly stems from getting overwhelmed with work and procrastinating due to a lack of focus/motivation from ADHD. With stimulants, I can focus, manage my tasks, and I don't experience crippling anxiety that I would if I couldn't focus on what I needed to accomplish. That's not typical for severe anxiety disorders. Even though I've experienced anxiety attacks more times than I can count, even though I've missed work and class because of my anxiety, it's not the norm - I know people with truly debilitating anxiety disorders and their anxiety attacks aren't at all predictable or manageable. If I, personally, was put on disability for my anxiety issues, I'd be in a much worse position when it comes to my mental health. But anxiety is a complex issue. The problem that people like May and many other politicians have is that they have trouble placing themselves in someone else's position. I might be able to think "well I overcame anxiety, so why can't they?" But it really isn't that simple - where my anxiety might be a dislocated shoulder or a broken wrist, it could be a severed spinal column for someone else. "I have anxiety" is as descriptive as "I hurt something." Did you bruise your thumb or did you snap your neck? One of them won't get you off work - the other one absolutely should.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51878778]No, it shouldn't. There's medicine for that. I bet you also think people should get disability for having OCD.[/QUOTE] You come across as someone who is very uneducated, or as someone who does not understand the severity of maladaptive anxiety disorders, and the very limited ability of medicine to treat them. I suggest you do some reading on the subject before running your mouth - you only make yourself look the fool. Naturally, some of those disorders have much less severe cases than others, and can be managed well with medication. Many cannot. See, it's very important to understand that there's no you beyond your physical body. You don't exist independently of it. Everything that you are, everything that you feel, remember, know, think, is attributed to a very, very delicate, complicated piece of machinery sitting inside your skull. Things can and do go wrong with the brain for many people, and it causes problems arguably greater than a lot of physical deformites or disabilities. After all, even without an arm you can employ your willpower to persevere and adapt, learn to use your other limb more effectively, employ a prosthetic, etc. What happens when that willpower is taken from you?

[QUOTE=Fourm Shark;51878845]"Severe mental illness is not a disability, its a fixable disease. These people should just man up and deal with it like everyone else. We should not be paying these people to sit home and be babies. Oh, so you feel scared of doing things? get over it lol man up"[/QUOTE] Good job reading my post, ignoring parts and changing the rest to fit your agenda. Explain to me how throwing money at mental health sufferers will fix their problems if medication cannot? Like I said in my previous post (which you ignored), if everyone who suffers mental illness decided to stop busting their balls to work and instead took the currently generous benefits then our social budget would be completely drained dry. They aren't throwing mental health sufferers under a bus, they're just making it harder to claim

If these cunts think it's reasonable to take away what little welfare (in relative terms, disability runs up a lot of coats due to dependence on transport, heating, overall costs etc) they give the disabled then maybe they ought to be put into such a position themselves. These cunts have no concept of what it is to live on the amount of income that most disabled people live on, let alone what it is deal with life from the perspective of someone with a disabiliy. I'd gladly watch any of these pieces of garbage try getting by in life after receiving much deserved crippling injury that forces them to rely on something like PIP. Otherwise they ought to fuck off and stop tempting people to do so.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;51880180]Speaking as someone diagnosed with an anxiety disorder, I think disability benefits for those with anxiety [I]can[/I] be an enabler and can worsen symptoms of anxiety. But this [I]definitely isn't always true[/I]. My anxiety mostly stems from getting overwhelmed with work and procrastinating due to a lack of focus/motivation from ADHD. With stimulants, I can focus, manage my tasks, and I don't experience crippling anxiety that I would if I couldn't focus on what I needed to accomplish. That's not typical for severe anxiety disorders. Even though I've experienced anxiety attacks more times than I can count, even though I've missed work and class because of my anxiety, it's not the norm - I know people with truly debilitating anxiety disorders and their anxiety attacks aren't at all predictable or manageable. If I, personally, was put on disability for my anxiety issues, I'd be in a much worse position when it comes to my mental health. But anxiety is a complex issue. The problem that people like May and many other politicians have is that they have trouble placing themselves in someone else's position. I might be able to think "well I overcame anxiety, so why can't they?" But it really isn't that simple - where my anxiety might be a dislocated shoulder or a broken wrist, it could be a severed spinal column for someone else. "I have anxiety" is as descriptive as "I hurt something." Did you bruise your thumb or did you snap your neck? One of them won't get you off work - the other one absolutely should.[/QUOTE] As someone who suffers from both Major Depression and GAD, I hear you man. Personally, getting a diagnosis was theraputic in and of itself for me. Knowing that there is an issue (a broken wrist, like you said) and that there are active, medically sound steps to take to alleviate the symptoms was uplifting for me after suffering undiagnosed for so long. On topic, it seems Tories across the pond suffer from 'till it happens to me' syndrome just like our Republicunts here do. "Gays should die, until my son is gay. "Obamacare is the devil, until my wife gets cancer" "Drug users are scum, until my cousin struggles with heroin use" Same old fucking story with these pieces of shit. Zero empathy.

[QUOTE=Ishwoo;51880681]Good job reading my post, ignoring parts and changing the rest to fit your agenda. Explain to me how throwing money at mental health sufferers will fix their problems if medication cannot? Like I said in my previous post (which you ignored), if everyone who suffers mental illness decided to stop busting their balls to work and instead took the currently generous benefits then our social budget would be completely drained dry. They aren't throwing mental health sufferers under a bus, they're just making it harder to claim[/QUOTE] People work to make money. Money is necessary to buy goods and services, and to live. If you're unable to work, you won't be able to make any money. Throwing money at this problem/giving these people money is a fantastic solution to them not having money. If you need this broken down any further, just give me a shout, if you've got any time to spare in between kicking the homeless in the teeth.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51878674]Having anxiety is not a reason to claim disability. Your uncle should still be able to claim benefits I would think.[/QUOTE] Have you not met anybody with severe anxiety before? It can be absolutely crippling. Those with the most severe anxiety disorders simply are not capable of being responsible, functional adults in "the real world." We're talking about a legitimate mental/emotional disorder here, one which oftentimes can never be fully overcome. [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Derek_SM;51878778]No, it shouldn't. There's medicine for that. I bet you also think people should get disability for having OCD.[/QUOTE] Medication and therapy can only go so far. They can make a big difference in many cases, but this isn't something you ever really "cure," and depending on the severity of the condition it can absolutely prevent somebody from being able to lead a functional life. The same goes for obsessive compulsive disorder. What else is disability welfare for, if not to provide aid to those suffering from medical conditions that make it impossible for them to function as an able member of society?

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51880832]Have you not met anybody with severe anxiety before? It can be absolutely crippling. Those with the most severe anxiety disorders simply are not capable of being responsible, functional adults in "the real world." We're talking about a legitimate mental/emotional disorder here, one which oftentimes can never be fully overcome. [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] Medication and therapy can only go so far. They can make a big difference in many cases, but this isn't something you ever really "cure," and depending on the severity of the condition it can absolutely prevent somebody from being able to lead a functional life. The same goes for obsessive compulsive disorder. What else is disability welfare for, if not to provide aid to those suffering from medical conditions that make it impossible for them to function as an able member of society?[/QUOTE] It should also be pointed out that this (both Derek's posts and what Freeman said) is the exact kind of ignorance and prejudice that sufferers of mental health problems are having to face. Being basically told "Just pop some pills and get better you pussy" is one of the most crushing things ever when you're already depressed. I mean, if it was that easy don't you think depression, anxiety and a whole host of other problems would be basically extinct at this point?

Keep doing standard Tory things and the country edges ever closer to violent rioting. You can't effectively kill people off by refusing to help them and just expect them to roll over and take it in the name of "fiscal responsibility". When these "efficiency cuts" start to hit more people, we will almost certainly start to see things get very messy.

[QUOTE=Ishwoo;51880681]Good job reading my post, ignoring parts and changing the rest to fit your agenda. Explain to me how throwing money at mental health sufferers will fix their problems if medication cannot?[/QUOTE] So how the fuck are they supposed to survive if their mental illness makes it impossible for them to actually hold a job??

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51878778]No, it shouldn't. There's medicine for that. I bet you also think people should get disability for having OCD.[/QUOTE] Are we talking about 'I'm a quirky perfectionist' OCD or 'I need to check all the doors again or I will die' OCD?

I'm currently in the process of applying for disability and I'm praying to all fuck that it gets approved before this administration has a chance to fuck everything, cuz even if they screw it up later I'll still have my full initial lump sum. I'm genuinely counting on disability to save my life, I will die without it, and I'm one of those "taking pills at home, who suffer from anxiety" types.

I'll never get why people are pushing to raise the age of retirement, cut benefits, etc. when jobs are scarce and are only going to get scarcer. It's a dead end.

[QUOTE=Foogooman;51881214]I'm currently in the process of applying for disability and I'm praying to all fuck that it gets approved before this administration has a chance to fuck everything, cuz even if they screw it up later I'll still have my full initial lump sum. I'm genuinely counting on disability to save my life, I will die without it, and I'm one of those "taking pills at home, who suffer from anxiety" types.[/QUOTE] As a successful applicant, here's my advice: don't sugarcoat anything or try to be optimistic when describing your problems to them, let them know exactly how you feel in those hours when your illness is bearing down upon you.

[QUOTE=GalacticPunt;51880768]People work to make money. Money is necessary to buy goods and services, and to live. If you're unable to work, you won't be able to make any money. Throwing money at this problem/giving these people money is a fantastic solution to them not having money. If you need this broken down any further, just give me a shout, if you've got any time to spare in between kicking the homeless in the teeth.[/QUOTE] once again, please read my post before replying to it. I never said disability benefits should be stopped, I said the government is cutting back the funding and making it harder to claim as people who work (and pay taxes) are actually in a worse position than some benefits claimants. The government don't want this because unsurprisingly it allows the system to be abused. Please read this post beyond the first sentence if your going to reply [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Kljunas;51881293]I'll never get why people are pushing to raise the age of retirement, cut benefits, etc. when jobs are scarce and are only going to get scarcer. It's a dead end.[/QUOTE] The job market in the U.K is pretty good at the moment, and there's few reasons why people shouldn't be working. Plus they're looking to raise that because we simply can't afford it, the government promised generous benefits and pensions to their voters years ago but now those voters are beginning to retire we've realised we can't afford it so everyone else has to help foot the bill.

[QUOTE=Ishwoo;51881419]once again, please read my post before replying to it. I never said disability benefits should be stopped, I said the government is cutting back the funding and making it harder to claim as people who work (and pay taxes) are actually in a worse position than some benefits claimants. The government don't want this because unsurprisingly it allows the system to be abused. Please read this post beyond the first sentence if your going to reply [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] The job market in the U.K is pretty good at the moment, and there's few reasons why people shouldn't be working. Plus they're looking to raise that because we simply can't afford it, the government promised generous benefits and pensions to their voters years ago but now those voters are beginning to retire we've realised we can't afford it so everyone else has to help foot the bill.[/QUOTE] If disability claimants are supposedly living it up better than an average worker maybe that's an indication of a larger problem with how your government treats workers and not a problem with people unable to work from disability, eh?

[QUOTE=GalacticPunt;51881381]As a successful applicant, here's my advice: don't sugarcoat anything or try to be optimistic when describing your problems to them, let them know exactly how you feel in those hours when your illness is bearing down upon you.[/QUOTE] yeah it's best to act as if they caught you on your worst possible day. after my application i was genuinely miserable for days afterwards because i had to emphasize my disabilities so much. and also be careful how you act as you're leaving, they'll be watching you from the windows in case you stop limping or you look a little too happy.