Kojima Calls out Metal Gear Survive, Says it has nothing to do with him - Polidicks

[QUOTE]“The Metal Gear games are about political fiction and espionage,” he continued. “Where do zombies fit in with that?”[/QUOTE] As much as i like kojima, this is kinda bs. Where do nanotech zombies, vampires, ghosts, magic parasites, raven whisperers, bee people and psychics fit in with that?

[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;51069286]Kojima 2016: [URL="http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/metal_gear_solid_rising/news/kojima_wants_metal_gear_rising_2_to_star_cyborg_ninja_gray_fox.html"]Kojima 2013:[/URL][/QUOTE] Its a spin off. And in the case of Rising, it actually sort of fits metal gear. Then again, that sequel might never happen anyway so...

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;51069336]Its a spin off. And in the case of Rising, it actually sort of fits metal gear. Then again, that sequel might never happen anyway so...[/QUOTE] Survive is also a spin-off

The conceit of Metal Gear Survive isn't really any more ridiculous than the main series but it kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth after all that shit that with hideo and konami went down. Oh well, looking forward to Death Stranding

[QUOTE=SirJon;51069315]As much as i like kojima, this is kinda bs. Where do nanotech zombies, vampires, ghosts, magic parasites, raven whisperers, bee people and psychics fit in with that?[/QUOTE] Vamp wasn't REALLY a vampire... I mean, an actual vampire that goes BLEAH. Just a crazy guy who got the taste of his family's blood who was superpowered by nanomachines. What he meant was that the game isn't supposed to be "just" about zombie survival. Despite having Vulcan Raven and Psycho Mantis and a Cyborg Ninja, those aren't the main theme of the game. They aren't the center piece. They're just characters, that happen to have special abilities. It's as if COD had memorable characters. At the center of it all, theres always a stealth entry into a web of charades made by characters that might not even show up in the game. Always what seems to be a simple terrorist attack or conflict you have to end, that has complications along the way because of X or Y. The oddballs are always people with special abilities that could fit in covert ops on the battlefield, and the rest of the characters are sometimes thrown in due to troubled pasts, or even to mirror enemy units of the past. [editline]18th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Jon MadN;51069345]Survive is also a spin-off[/QUOTE] The point is that it doesn't makes sense. You expect and even want a game with either Raiden or Grey Fox because cyborg ninjas are this really cool part of metal gear. That everyone wants to play as at least once. I mean, you got Grey Fox who was a really cool badass. Then we got survive. People already disliked the idea of the infected soldiers that act like zombies. And now, Konami pulls a game about zombies, a thing that isn't related to metal gear at all, and that people didn't really like at all in the last game. Adding up to that, as I've already said, you got a fuckton of survival games out there, and it just makes you think "gee, konami are being really unoriginal, aren't they?"

[QUOTE=dai;51068914]there's a bit of a difference in storytelling/creativity between "unethical generically modified/controlled supersoldier" undead in a game about political espionage and crazy military things, and "dur hburr zombie apocalypse" shambling corpses in a survival setting[/QUOTE] To me that sounds very much like the "it's not fan service, she breathes from her skin" type of bullshit excuse to make something not sound as shameless as it really is But yeah konami is the devil and kojima never did anything wrong, we know how it is

tbh it's pretty weird people cling on to Quiet despite all the weird shit in the series but whatever, new times I guess

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;51069413]tbh it's pretty weird people cling on to Quiet despite all the weird shit in the series but whatever, new times I guess[/QUOTE] because most people havent played metal gear other than mgsv

[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;51069152]Yeah folks, you heard it here first: if you make a game about espionage, no comedy allowed! Its a video game and Kojima is well known for taking the 'fiction' tag very liberally. Its one of the reasons he's considered such a creative genius.[/QUOTE] I forgot most metal gear fans has a stick roughly the size of the ones in that video up their arse and that you can't joke about anything involving the god king kojima :v:

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;51069413]tbh it's pretty weird people cling on to Quiet despite all the weird shit in the series but whatever, new times I guess[/QUOTE] My point was that despite the ridiculous amount of weird and dumb shit in the metal gear series people saw headless zombies and they looked like a good excuse to automatically call Survive a travesty just because Kojima is no longer involved Kojima is talented but fanboy-ism is still bad

[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;51069444]My point was that despite the ridiculous amount of weird and dumb shit in the metal gear series people saw headless zombies and they looked like a good excuse to automatically call Survive a travesty just because Kojima is no longer involved Kojima is talented but fanboy-ism is still bad[/QUOTE] Every true Metal Gear fan knows Tomokazu Fukushima is the true mastermind behind Metal Gear

[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;51069444]My point was that despite the ridiculous amount of weird and dumb shit in the metal gear series people saw headless zombies and they looked like a good excuse to automatically call Survive a travesty just because Kojima is no longer involved Kojima is talented but fanboy-ism is still bad[/QUOTE] Lol do you really think thats all there is? What about the msf soldier getting sucked int the portal and suddenly wearing a diamond dogs outfit? What about the MSF base getting sucked into the portal and suddenly becoming a DD base? (an entirely different design by the way. Lets also not forget all the clothes are from MGO

[QUOTE=Crimor;51069442]I forgot most metal gear games has a stick roughly the size of the ones in that video up their arse and that you can't joke about anything involving the god king kojima :v:[/QUOTE] Where a series is mostly known for cardboard box, you'd be surprised some people not getting the joke.

[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;51069444]My point was that despite the ridiculous amount of weird and dumb shit in the metal gear series people saw headless zombies and they looked like a good excuse to automatically call Survive a travesty just because Kojima is no longer involved Kojima is talented but fanboy-ism is still bad[/QUOTE] Oh my bad, I agree

[QUOTE=SirJon;51069315]As much as i like kojima, this is kinda bs. Where do nanotech zombies, vampires, ghosts, magic parasites, raven whisperers, bee people and psychics fit in with that?[/QUOTE] They weren't the actual point and focus of the games.

[QUOTE=Sweater;51069492]Where a series is mostly known for cardboard box, you'd be surprised some people not getting the joke.[/QUOTE] Ah sorry, meant to say metal gear fans, not metal gear games.

[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;51069286]Kojima 2016: [URL="http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/metal_gear_solid_rising/news/kojima_wants_metal_gear_rising_2_to_star_cyborg_ninja_gray_fox.html"]Kojima 2013:[/URL][/QUOTE] You mean he suggested the shit he pulled in MGS4 through nanomachines instead of extra dimensional alien super zombie crystals and reality warping wormholes for enemies in a Rising sequel? Whoa.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51069677]You mean he suggested the shit he pulled in MGS4 through nanomachines instead of extra dimensional alien super zombie crystals and reality warping wormholes for enemies in a Rising sequel? Whoa.[/QUOTE] What if its parasites can't judge yet dude :^)

[QUOTE=Jon MadN;51069805]What if its parasites can't judge yet dude :^)[/QUOTE] 1) They're clearly not. 2) The parasites, while dumb, had mechanics that were kind of understandable to a point (and the zombies werent really zombies, they were being mind controlled by the SKULL unit through the fog or something like that, thats the confusing part)

What I got from the SKULL fog thing was that akin to that parasite worm in praying manti that gets them to try and drown themselves, this parasite wants to stay in the fog to be able to drink, so they can control the area they operate in on an instinctual level.

[QUOTE=Jarokwa;51070084]if it looks like a zombie, acts like a zombie then its probably just a fucking zombie regardless of whatever terrible explanation is used about how it isnt really a zombie[/QUOTE] Yeah but the context, purpose, and usage is important. Its why you can accept nanomachine induced-brain damaged mentally retarded dudes as being totally fine but alien crystal wormhole zombies might be a bit, eh, much.

[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;51069395]To me that sounds very much like the "it's not fan service, she breathes from her skin" type of bullshit excuse to make something not sound as shameless as it really is But yeah konami is the devil and kojima never did anything wrong, we know how it is[/QUOTE] is it really hard to see the reason there's a difference here? being undead is flavortext for the skulls and nothing more. It means they're driven solely by skullface's will, don't feel pain, and they're genetically enhanced ultrasoldiers on top of that. We can easily establish they're bad guys who are terrifying on a number of principals, and they're only a small portion of the game they're in. What do we get from a horde of survival zombies with glowing crystals sticking out of their neck stump? they're zombies for zombie-sake in a game where you have to survive waves and hordes of mindless zombies. I'm wondering if they see the irony in that kind of zombie often being an allegory for mindless consumerism and the lack of control the individual has on the masses. Everybody's defending this as a ~spinoff~ but what makes it a spinoff? Usually that means you take a cool premise from a game (a character or alluded-to events) and branch off to explore those concepts, not just invent an interdimensional rift out of thin air and say it's related because you gave it the same name and (accidentally wrong?) assets you had laying around already. Now, spinoffs [I]can [/I]be wacky and diverge from the game's/series' core philosophies and mechanics; Raiden's game was balls-to-the-wall hyperninja action when MGS is all about stealth and planned actions, but it fit within established characters, settings, stories and other canon of the series. It was tailored for, and built upon, the experience the character could present not only through his toolset, but[I] as an interesting existing character[/I]. Meanwhile we've got random grunts in goofy kevlar vests hack-and-slashing at zombies till their headlamp turns off in an alternate dimension, and hey they did the thing where they stick a sheep on a balloon, cute! I'm sure this is getting said a lot. It looks like a pretty cool zombie game on its own, but I'm FAR more inclined to criticize it to hell and back for being labeled an entry to the metal gear series after the incredibly high key nonsense they went through with kojima. I'm not some die-hard fan of the series trying to nitpick things in my favor, I played MGS4 once, and that was the extent of the fun I had with my Ps3 back when those cost 700 bucks. I'm trying to stretch my google-fu skills to the max to look at what has been done with the franchise in the past and talk about this from a design choice perspective It would have been smarter to invent a brand new franchise for this premise of interdimensional zombie horror because even if this turns out fun as hell, there's no way konami didn't know it was going to get torn apart under a microscope for trying to put forth such a divergent entry to an established franchise while the kojima wound was so fresh.

yoji shinkawa is my idol [quote]“If I had worked on that game, it would have mechs in it.”[/quote] what a wonderful man ; u ;

[QUOTE=Wii60;51069047]if konami gives a shit about the lore, the skull unit didnt exist till the 1980s. metal gear survive takes place right after when the MSF base blows up, mid 70s[/quote] Metal Gear Survive also takes place in an alternate universe with shit teleporting in from the main one with the possibility that shit comes in from the future. There was straight-up a Diamond Dogs box teleporting in when they showed it at TGS. [quote]but konami probably wont care about lore. hell i bet there will be a L4D style 4v4 missions[/QUOTE] What they showed at TGS was infiltration, then defense. I mean, it's a possibility, but considering it's got the same stealth mechanics from MGSV, it's unlikely. [QUOTE=TrannyAlert;51069205]We don't want another fucking zombie survival game[/quote] So don't buy it. You might not want a hack'n'slash, so in that case, don't buy Metal Gear Rising Revengeance. Vote with your wallet. [quote]Also anyone saying MGS had zombies in, it was for like 2+ missions and it was led up to in the story and then forgot about. It wasn't the driving point of the story that it turned into a zombie survival game[/QUOTE] Doesn't change the fact that they were there, Kojima wrote them in, and they were forced parts of the plot that you had to deal with the progress the storyline. Plus, I'm not sure we can really pass them off as "forgot about" when it's so incredibly obvious the game was hardcore rushed and incomplete.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51070089]Yeah but the context, purpose, and usage is important. Its why you can accept nanomachine induced-brain damaged mentally retarded dudes as being totally fine but alien crystal wormhole zombies might be a bit, eh, much.[/QUOTE] But it's not a Metal Gear Solid game, why is everyone fighting? It's a spinoff like Acid. It has no place in the timeline and it can do whatever the fuck they want to do with the story. Also: Parasites that turn people into zombies with glowing eyes in 1984 were no Problem at all? :v:

[QUOTE=DMGaina;51070533]But it's not a Metal Gear Solid game, why is everyone fighting? It's a spinoff like Acid. It has no place in the timeline and it can do whatever the fuck they want to do with the story.[/QUOTE] Because despite being a spin-off, it still has the name, and even the spin-offs follow the themes and ideas present in the main series in relation to weapons of war and politics. And, hypothetically of course, a spin-off could damage the mainline series if the scale of it goes out of control. Like, for example, Sonny Big Jim John Viper Snaku Jr. goes on a universe trotting adventure saving galaxies from super-gears, well that'd just make Snake and Big Boss look like small fries in comparison. This is essentially like making a standalone Metal Gear title out of the Monster Hunter missions in PW. Its fun as a side thing in the game, but i'd just be bizarre and way way out of place as its own game. [editline]18th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=DMGaina;51070533]Also: Parasites that turn people into zombies with glowing eyes in 1984 were no Problem at all? :v:[/QUOTE] It was bizarre but it had a specific intention. It was also more along the lines of traditional Voodoo zombie slaves than ravenous, aimless, directionless undead eaters, since they were being controlled by the SKULL unit and they were being controlled by Skull Face.

[QUOTE=DMGaina;51070533]But it's not a Metal Gear Solid game, why is everyone fighting? It's a spinoff like Acid. It has no place in the timeline and it can do whatever the fuck they want to do with the story. Also: Parasites that turn people into zombies with glowing eyes in 1984 were no Problem at all? :v:[/QUOTE] It might have something to do with Konami forcibly removing kojima, then turning his IP into pachinko and zombie survival trash.

[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;51069395]To me that sounds very much like the "it's not fan service, she breathes from her skin" type of bullshit excuse to make something not sound as shameless as it really is But yeah konami is the devil and kojima never did anything wrong, we know how it is[/QUOTE] IMO, people give waaay too much shit about Quiet just because she's seen first as awkward eye candy, and use that card whenever they want to complain about something.

[QUOTE=spekter;51069534]They weren't the actual point and focus of the games.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;51069370]Vamp wasn't REALLY a vampire... I mean, an actual vampire that goes BLEAH. Just a crazy guy who got the taste of his family's blood who was superpowered by nanomachines. What he meant was that the game isn't supposed to be "just" about zombie survival. Despite having Vulcan Raven and Psycho Mantis and a Cyborg Ninja, those aren't the main theme of the game. They aren't the center piece. They're just characters, that happen to have special abilities. It's as if COD had memorable characters. At the center of it all, theres always a stealth entry into a web of charades made by characters that might not even show up in the game. Always what seems to be a simple terrorist attack or conflict you have to end, that has complications along the way because of X or Y. The oddballs are always people with special abilities that could fit in covert ops on the battlefield, and the rest of the characters are sometimes thrown in due to troubled pasts, or even to mirror enemy units of the past. [/QUOTE] But then again Nanomachines do lie in the center of MGS4, and they're as bonkers as zombies are, arguably even more. Not to mention they're essentially a lazy plot hole filler and cheap suspension of disbelief device, although that's unrelated to the topic at hand.

[QUOTE=mooman1080;51070764]It might have something to do with Konami forcibly removing kojima, then turning his IP into pachinko and zombie survival trash.[/QUOTE] Except people would still be flaming if Konami did a proper MGS game