Linux-on-the-desktop pioneer Munich now considering a switch back to Windows

[Thlis]

[QUOTE=Ybbat;45732003]Thlis,

You may not know this but [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_X"]OSX[/URL] is unix based, and if Apple can get a bunch of idiots to use their software I'm sure Canonical can.[/QUOTE]

Ybbat,

You may not know this but Mac is a lot more standardized than Linux and has a whole lot more users familiar with it.

[QUOTE=PredGD;45732034]if you take a step back and look at the learning curve of Linux for a second, it really isn't hard. if you throw yourself straight into advanced usage of the terminal, then you're doing it wrong. start of easy with your favorite flavor of Ubuntu, learn how to use the system without the terminal in mind, and if you need something which includes the usage of the terminal, google or ask for help! it's a very nice curve and it's far from steep. the learning happens as you use the system[/QUOTE]
This isn't a matter of expanding your OS horizons, this is a matter of giving employees the best tools to get the job done.

[vlad]

if you take a step back and look at the learning curve of Linux for a second, it really isn't hard. if you throw yourself straight into advanced usage of the terminal, then you're doing it wrong. start of easy with your favorite flavor of Ubuntu, learn how to use the system without the terminal in mind, and if you need something which includes the usage of the terminal, google or ask for help! it's a very nice curve and it's far from steep. the learning happens as you use the system

[Bumrang]

[QUOTE=Thlis;45732028]Ybbat,

You may not know this but Mac is a lot more standardized than Linux and has a whole lot more users familiar with it.[/QUOTE]

and?

[TheCreeper]

[QUOTE=Thlis;45732028]Ybbat,

You may not know this but Mac is a lot more standardized than Linux and has a whole lot more users familiar with it.

This isn't a matter of expanding your OS horizons, this is a matter of giving employees the best tools to get the job done.[/QUOTE]

Linux has being quickly getting more standardised in recent years and its happening at a quicker pace than before. Systemd for example is one step towards a more standardised Linux ecosystem which a lot of major distros have being switching to.

[Ybbat]

[QUOTE=Thlis;45732028]Ybbat,

You may not know this but Mac is a lot more standardized than Linux and has a whole lot more users familiar with it.[/QUOTE]

Thlis,

At one point those users didn't use Mac, now they do, there is a learning curve. At one point you never used a computer, when you first did, you probably had trouble.

[vlad]

[QUOTE=Thlis;45732028]
This isn't a matter of expanding your OS horizons, this is a matter of giving employees the best tools to get the job done.[/QUOTE]

speaking strictly of that, Linux really is the best choice. if you do photography or video editing, then maybe not, but if you have a standard desk job, it's most likely the best option there is. it's more lightweight than Windows, aka cheaper computers, and as an employee, you'll already have the system set up and ready. you'd most likely not be allowed to touch the terminal, much like you wouldn't have access to admin rights on a computer owned by the business you're employed at

[Johnny on Flame]

21th Century, if you don't know how to do the basics of a computer like clicking on the button that reads "software center" you have some big problems ahead of you.

[Ybbat]

[QUOTE=JohnnyOnFlame;45732071]21th Century, if you don't know how to do the basics of a computer like clicking on the button that reads "software center" you have some big problems ahead of you.[/QUOTE]
Bing bing bing! We have winner.

Speaking of which OSX has some interesting abstraction from the users. You really cannot get into the root of the drive without doing some meandering. Not only that, administrators and users who are "savvy" with working with Mac specific problems are few and far between.

[TheCreeper]

It sounds like some people in this thread have this idea that an OS should be completely idoit proof which is not a good thing.

[QUOTE]Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool" and "If you make something idiot proof, someone will just make a better idiot.
- Douglas Adams[/QUOTE]

[Ybbat]

Another tale from the trenches.

Among server administrators there is a notion that you should reasonably never have to restart a Linux/Unix server.

However in contrast, theres a joke that goes around: "It's windows, better restart it" in the case that anything goes wrong.

[Bumrang]

yeah linux is easily the best choice for workplaces

it's free, extremely customizable for the IT guys, fast and lightweight, and does exactly what you need it to do without installing "the whole package"

most importantly its safe, you can limit what users can and can't do very easily

[Ybbat]

[QUOTE=Atlascore;45732125]Linux is never going to become popular with the vast majority of casual computer users.

First of all before you can even install it you have to find a proper distro, Linux's last of standardization is just plain awful, both Windows and MacOS just have the main OS so there's no research required you can just install the latest version of either one and you're good to go, even the most computer-illiterate people can get a Windows or Mac computer working in like 30 minutes tops, no help or manuals required.

Secondly it has huge compatibility issues with a lot of programs out there, a lot of commonly used programs still don't have a Linux version available, hell a lot of them don't even have a MacOS version available either, and forget ever playing video games as the vast majority of PC games out there are Windows or Windows/MacOS exclusive.

The final nail in the coffin is that practically no one wants to switch away from Windows and/or Mac, it offers nothing over either of these for the vast majority of casual computer users, and it comes prepackaged on almost no computers so the number of people accidentally exposed to it is pretty much zero.[/QUOTE]
Standardization is pretty good among Linux environments, most of the time one command will always work in another, if not there will be an easy google away from finding the proper command.

Compatiblity: You cannot expect a program to work on an operating system it wasn't built for, just like expecting a mac program to run on windows natively. IBM (for instance) releases new our software for all platforms, within reason. Edit: Also, its not the Kernal thats different per OS, its the OS programs installed by default. If your used to a program on a Linux distro that's not on the one you installed: install it. For instance, there are a lot of people who prefer ifconfig to ip. (ifconfig is on most Linux distros whereas ip is new to Arch) You can install ifconfig on Arch however.

People switch everyday from Windows -> Mac. How is it such a leap to move to Elementary or the main stream of Ubuntu itself?

Anyway, I'm outty: anyone else who wants to argue has already made up their mind.

[TheCreeper]

[QUOTE=Atlascore;45732125]Linux is never going to become popular with the vast majority of casual computer users.

First of all before you can even install it you have to find a proper distro, Linux's last of standardization is just plain awful, both Windows and MacOS just have the main OS so there's no research required you can just install the latest version of either one and you're good to go, even the most computer-illiterate people can get a Windows or Mac computer working in like 30 minutes tops, no help or manuals required.

Secondly it has huge compatibility issues with a lot of programs out there, a lot of commonly used programs still don't have a Linux version available, hell a lot of them don't even have a MacOS version available either, and forget ever playing video games as the vast majority of PC games out there are Windows or Windows/MacOS exclusive.

The final nail in the coffin is that practically no one wants to switch away from Windows and/or Mac, it offers nothing over either of these for the vast majority of casual computer users, and it comes prepackaged on almost no computers so the number of people accidentally exposed to it is pretty much zero.[/QUOTE]

I can get my Linux system running in 10 minutes or less with all my software installed (Thanks to Puppet) and configured the way I like it; without using any sort of automation I can get my Linux or Windows box running in a couple of hours (All software installed and configured).

Your acting like you even need to install Linux when in-fact there are many computer manufacters that pre-install Linux for you as an option. Lenovo, Dell (Certain computers), or even System76; there is plenty of others that will pre-install Linux. Your also making it out like that you need to be a genius to install Linux when Ubuntu has made it trivial to install, possibly even easier than Windows.

Just because there is a lack of certain types of software on Linux does not mean that we should not be pushing for it which is working; Linux has seen more developers in recent years porting their software over than ever before and its only getting better.

[Johnny on Flame]

[QUOTE=Atlascore;45732125]Linux is never going to become popular with the vast majority of casual computer users.

First of all before you can even install it you have to find a proper distro, Linux's last of standardization is just plain awful, both Windows and MacOS just have the main OS so there's no research required you can just install the latest version of either one and you're good to go, even the most computer-illiterate [B]people can get a Windows or Mac computer working in like 30 minutes tops, no help or manuals required.[/B]

Secondly it has huge compatibility issues with a lot of programs out there, a lot of commonly used programs still don't have a Linux version available, hell a lot of them don't even have a MacOS version available either, and forget ever playing video games as the vast majority of PC games out there are Windows or Windows/MacOS exclusive.

The final nail in the coffin is that practically no one wants to switch away from Windows and/or Mac, it offers nothing over either of these for the vast majority of casual computer users, and it comes prepackaged on almost no computers so the number of people accidentally exposed to it is pretty much zero.[/QUOTE]

This is utter bullshit and anybody that is treated like the 'neighborhood friendly tech guy' knows it, because people will require assistance with even the most mundane tasks in windows, everything from getting rid of that awful free office license that comes with windows to reading PDF files and watching movies on their computers.

[TheCreeper]

[QUOTE=Atlascore;45732220]If someone can't handle Windows then there is no way in hell they can handle Linux[/QUOTE]

This is bullshit. My grandfather has a Windows 7 Laptop and always has issues with using it while my grandmother who I installed Ubuntu for on her laptop finds it easier to use and so does my grandfather. I have not even being asked once since I installed it to comeback to fix something or show them how to do something.

[vlad]

[QUOTE=Atlascore;45732220]If someone can't handle Windows then there is no way in hell they can handle Linux[/QUOTE]

I installed eOS on a virtual machine in about 2 minutes, and had a fully updated system on boot.

[t]http://i.cubeupload.com/uWNkRo.png[/t][t]http://i.cubeupload.com/kd3sru.png[/t][t]http://i.cubeupload.com/JMTvZB.png[/t][t]http://i.cubeupload.com/hFkXCE.png[/t]

at this point, I already have a functioning set up for daily usage with no manual help from me. if I need an office program for work, I just need to open the software center and search for one, then download it. everything else, from music, notepad, video player, etc, are already there

[TheCreeper]

[QUOTE=Atlascore;45732256]That sounds like bullshit[/QUOTE]

You posts sound like bullshit. Im not the only one who has experienced this with computer illiterate users; you only have to look in the General Linux Chat thread to see that other people are seeing the same results.

[Skanic]

[QUOTE=Tamschi;45731623]In my experience maintaining Linux is actually easier as a whole, since almost all software will update automatically through a central system.

If I wanted to keep my Windows PC as up-to-date I'd have to spend about an hour a month on installing updates manually.
(This is in part because I use some not completely mainstream software though. All major browsers auto-update everywhere by now.)[/QUOTE]

Windows 8(.1) Does that ever since it got released auto updates without me having to check.

I think linux is viable in almost everything, the only thing it lacks is gaming, if i could play games like bf4, skyrim, witcher series without any loss in quallity. I would jump on linux in a heartbeat.

[TheCreeper]

[QUOTE=Skanic;45732315]Windows 8(.1) Does that ever since it got released auto updates without me having to check.

I think linux is viable in almost everything, the only thing it lacks is gaming, if i could play games like bf4, skyrim, witcher series without any loss in quallity. I would jump on linux in a heartbeat.[/QUOTE]

This is the only reason I keep my Windows box around because I cant play some games. Everything else for me Linux does better.

[Bumrang]

[QUOTE=Atlascore;45732256]That sounds like bullshit[/QUOTE]

Do you have any experience with Ubuntu or eOS? For basic tasks it's easier to use than Windows.

[Johnny on Flame]

[QUOTE=Atlascore;45732256]That sounds like bullshit[/QUOTE]

[video=youtube;fJqr-xchBZ8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJqr-xchBZ8[/video]

[Froztshock]

The thing about Linux is that, once you get it into the shape it needs to be in, it's gonna' fucking stay that way until the end of time.

All you need is office, spreadsheet, and email? IT creates an image with all that shit on it and working, installs it on the computers, and tells the staff "Click THIS icon to start the internet/word/spreadsheet." Then it'll stay in that working configuration for fucking EVER. So long as you don't give the employees root access, there is almost no conceivable way for them to fuck things up.

From an engineering standpoint, Windows is a convoluted mess. Nobody knows why this is this way or that is that way. Shit just fucking HAPPENS for no apparent reason. I've had windows games that were working start to crash one day and never found an explanation as to why. Also, it seems that it STILL occasionally loses the arrangement of your desktop icons, a problem that's been around for fucking EVER. People who are into computers find Linux more comfortable in this respect because, if something happens to go wrong, it can usually be traced back to one specific thing!

I'm not going to act like there can't be compatibility or configuration issues, hell I just had to work out a kink with my Arch system's DHCP and my university's network. But the business IT should be smart enough to deal with most of those issues during the setup phase, and once they're dealt with they're the kind of thing that never resurfaces.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that most of the issues with Linux are things that the average user shouldn't be touching on a work computer anyways. Once the initial hiccups are worked through, the company stands to have a significantly more stable computer workforce, and one that's less costly to update to as well!

[Fatfatfatty]

Linux isn't user friendly enough to really be good for the average user doing their surfing and work. Whenever there's an update or anything you have to open the terminal to execute a lot of commands just to download a program.

[Johnny on Flame]

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;45732418]Linux isn't user friendly enough to really be good for the average user doing their surfing and work. Whenever there's an update or anything you have to open the terminal to execute a lot of commands just to download a program.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JohnnyOnFlame;45732405][video=youtube;fJqr-xchBZ8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJqr-xchBZ8[/video][/QUOTE]

[Bumrang]

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;45732418]Linux isn't user friendly enough to really be good for the average user doing their surfing and work. Whenever there's an update or anything you have to open the terminal to execute a lot of commands just to download a program.[/QUOTE]

you didn't even read the fucking thread christ

[vlad]

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;45732418]Linux isn't user friendly enough to really be good for the average user doing their surfing and work. Whenever there's an update or anything you have to open the terminal to execute a lot of commands just to download a program.[/QUOTE]

Linux not being user-friendly is entirely dependent on which distro you choose. any flavor of Ubuntu and its derivatives will more often than not be easier to use than Windows as long as you're not a power user. in the end, if you are a power user, the terminal etc is most likely something you'll learn anyway

[Fatfatfatty]

I tried out ubuntu on a few occascions when i needed an alternative OS for salvaging files from broken computers. Installing something as necessary as java takes a lot of annoying typing into the terminal to complete.

Is GUI too casual or what?

[vlad]

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;45732467]I tried out ubuntu on a few occascions when i needed an alternative OS for salvaging files from broken computers. Installing something as necessary as java takes a lot of annoying typing into the terminal to complete.

Is GUI too casual or what?[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i.cubeupload.com/iSYqOb.png[/IMG]

it should do the job

[Bumrang]

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;45732467]I tried out ubuntu on a few occascions when i needed an alternative OS for salvaging files from broken computers. Installing something as necessary as java takes a lot of annoying typing into the terminal to complete.

Is GUI too casual or what?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Bumrang;45732432]you didn't even read the fucking thread christ[/QUOTE]

[TheCreeper]

It appears that some people in this thread just like to hate despite being proven wrong at almost every turn.