Linux-on-the-desktop pioneer Munich now considering a switch back to Windows - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;45732467]I tried out ubuntu on a few occascions when i needed an alternative OS for salvaging files from broken computers. Installing something as necessary as java takes a lot of annoying typing into the terminal to complete. Is GUI too casual or what?[/QUOTE] Most Linux users eventually learn to love and embrace the terminal once their initial fear turns into curiosity- it's just practical and efficient once you get the hang of the commands and the ways of the auto-complete.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;45732256]That sounds like bullshit[/QUOTE] I'm back everyone! Installing Windows 8.1 required 3 systems reboots, countless Googling and about 6 different windows programs because windows 8 has two windows update interfaces. This is because windows update is a piece of shit. In contrast, the update doc for Ubuntu is as follows: Ubuntu Desktops 13.10 to 14.04 (Recommended) You can easily upgrade over the network with the following procedure. 1. Run the update-manager application from the Unity Dash or a command line 2. In Update Manager, click the Settings... button, and enter your password to start the Software Sources application. 3. Select the sub menu Updates from the Software Sources application. 4. Confirm the "Notify me of a new Ubuntu version:" option is set to "For any new version", and change it if otherwise. 5. Close the Software Sources application and return to Update Manager. 6. In Update Manager, click the Check button to check for new updates. 7. If there are any updates to install, use the Install Updates button to install them, and press Check again after that is complete. 8. A message will appear informing you of the availability of the new release. 9. Click Upgrade. 10. Follow the on-screen instructions. Not a single step requires you to open a terminal window. And you should only have to restart if the kernal changed. (this would be automatic of course.)

[QUOTE=Ybbat;45732590]I'm back everyone! Installing Windows 8.1 required 3 systems reboots, countless Googling and about 6 different windows programs because windows 8 has two windows update interfaces. [/QUOTE] That is bull and you know it. All you do is go to the windows store and click install 8.1. Why are linux users so fanatical?

[QUOTE=Thlis;45731886]You are kind of the reason why I dislike Linux users. Linux isn't a basic computer competency. It's an OS for masochists. I mean do you have any notion of how competent the average employee is at dealing with computers? Should we just fire them all because apparently they all need the new qualification of dealing with such a stupidly user unfriendly OS that is used by so few people? It's like demanding every accountant to use Latin while working.[/QUOTE] You vastly overestimate how difficult Linux is to use, sorry. It's like your only experience with Linux is RHEL People might be "used to" using Windows, that doesn't mean Linux is difficult. They could just as easily get "used to" Linux with a modern desktop environment. Also, Linux is the most widely used OS in the world, period. Knowledge of Unix is actually a valuable skill, so comparing it to Latin really doesn't make any sense

[QUOTE=Thlis;45732617]That is bull and you know it. All you do is go to the windows store and click install 8.1. Why are linux users so fanatical?[/QUOTE] Bullshit, I clicked 'install windows 8.1' on my notebook and it didn't work, it required a fuckton of workarounds to make the windows store allow me to do it. We're not that fanatical, I'm just not fond of misinformation being spread.

[QUOTE=aydin690;45731380]No matter how you linux fanboys sugar coat it, linux is still years away from being usable by the general public, specially those that use public computers.[/QUOTE] Apparently you have never used Ubuntu Desktop version.

[QUOTE=Thlis;45732617]That is bull and you know it. All you do is go to the windows store and click install 8.1. Why are linux users so fanatical?[/QUOTE] There is a Windows update that you to install Windows 8.1 from the app store, unfortunately my PC didn't want to download this update from Windows update so I was forced to restart, change registries, manually restart the service for Windows update and run some registry clearing stuff. By the way, it also took a few minutes for windows update to tell me that "Windows update could not download the update" no detail errors just that shit. This was my OEM Samsung Smartpc. No modifications. That was also the second time I installed Windows 8.1, the first time my sound drivers didn't work so I had to revert to Windows 8. [QUOTE=JohnnyOnFlame;45732712]Bullshit, I clicked 'install windows 8.1' on my notebook and it didn't work, it required a fuckton of workarounds to make the windows store allow me to do it. We're not that fanatical, I'm just not fond of misinformation being spread.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Swilly;45730991]On the other hand, there are really easy and cheap solutions to half the problems.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but multiply those problems by 14,000 and you have more headaches and more costs.

[QUOTE=aydin690;45731380]No matter how you linux fanboys sugar coat it, linux is still years away from being usable by the general public, specially those that use public computers.[/QUOTE] but clearly if they dont want it, they're just pretending, and being paid off by microsoft

[QUOTE=Bazsil;45732865]but clearly if they dont want it, they're just pretending, and being paid off by microsoft[/QUOTE] yea if people dont want windows and want osx instead they are just being paid off by apple you're not funny

[QUOTE=Bumrang;45732890]yea if people dont want windows and want osx instead they are just being paid off by apple you're not funny[/QUOTE] Its only funny if its in favor of linux rite

what

[QUOTE=aydin690;45731562]Linux distros still can't agree on one universal install package and even then you have to install a lot of programs with the terminal. ...[/QUOTE] Neither does Windows actually, and you don't need to install apps through the terminal at all.

[QUOTE=TheDecryptor;45733017]Neither does Windows actually, and you don't need to install apps through the terminal at all.[/QUOTE] In addition: There's only 3 common ones really. RPM. dpkg(Apt-get). pacman. The big difference is mostly the built in repo's. RPM is based on long support releases, usually because for support on Redhat Enterprise Linux. dpkg is debian's package manager, which is used in Ubuntu and debian variants they do a mix of longterm and midterm releases by default. Pacman is used for Arch and a few others they do rolling releases, so you can get nightly builds by default. Besides, once the package is installed if it's the same version they're going to work the same way. Since the packages are just predefined software installs. You can always create installers that are applications, or make files

Windows for gaming and general multimedia use, basic functions beyond word processing, music listening and web-browsing. Linux for basic functions (for your parents and your grandparents, maybe your 10 year old), neckbeard techie types and servers This could change but as for right now, I'm sticking with Windows 8, which I'm very happy with and really excited for Windows 9. Can't tell you how many times online students at our district have had issues because they were running Ubuntu and *insert program here* doesn't support it. Until that changes, I really don't think Linux is going to be viable. As for gaming with Linux, I'm all for it but why in the fuck would you trust SteamOS to run your games when they can hardly maintain the standalone program itself to work efficiently?

[QUOTE=aydin690;45731696]Sure, if all you do is browse the internet. I wanted to repartition a raid drive without reinstalling mint and what a nightmare that was.[/QUOTE] Last I checked, linux in general had far, far better partition tools than windows has ever had. Maybe mint doesn't come with the stuff installed by default. I wouldn't know offhand.

[QUOTE=Zephyrs;45733641]Last I checked, linux in general had far, far better partition tools than windows has ever had. Maybe mint doesn't come with the stuff installed by default. I wouldn't know offhand.[/QUOTE] I've always used a GParted live CD for everything I've needed to do. Easy as pie to burn, and almost idiot-proof to use really (compared to using FDisk to partition for my first Arch install, now THAT was scary!) I'm pretty sure that it's just a debian livesystem with GParted installed to it too. But yeah, super easy. Then again, he did specifically say raid drives. I don't know much about raid, so maybe partitioning raid drives is more complicated or the tools on Linux are worse.

If it's hardware RAID, it's transparent to the system. If it's software RAID, it's still (mostly) transparent to the system.

after using linux as my primary operating system as a photographer for two years i am fairly displeased with it. i don't think it's ready for anyone who plans on doing serious creative work just yet. hardly any support from that industry [editline]19th August 2014[/editline] and no, gimp is not a viable alternative to photoshop for anyone planning on doing serious work

I consider myself relatively computer savvy, and I've tried multiple distributions of Linux on about 6 different computers. Each time, something went wrong before I could even get through the installation. After that, I had to use the terminal each time to get something working, because the GUI programs just didn't get the job done properly. Linux is improving, but you're incredibly naive to think that the general public are capable of using it when a good proportion of them can't get past the removal of the start bar in Windows 8. Linux is not yet user friendly and intuitive enough for millions of people to use. Software is also a huge issue. People scream "open source" and "wine", but open source software is still miles behind the professional alternatives, and wine rarely works 100% under the best conditions.

[QUOTE=.Lain;45733855]after using linux as my primary operating system as a photographer for two years i am fairly displeased with it. i don't think it's ready for anyone who plans on doing serious creative work just yet. hardly any support from that industry [editline]19th August 2014[/editline] and no, gimp is not a viable alternative to photoshop for anyone planning on doing serious work[/QUOTE] Yeah, same. If adobe would just bring over their apps so much of anyone doing serious work could just switch right over Fuck, it can't be that high of a jump from OS X to Linux

[QUOTE=Noss;45733874]I consider myself relatively computer savvy, and I've tried multiple distributions of Linux on about 6 different computers. Each time, something went wrong before I could even get through the installation. After that, I had to use the terminal each time to get something working, because the GUI programs just didn't get the job done properly. Linux is improving, but you're incredibly naive to think that the general public are capable of using it when a good proportion of them can't get past the removal of the start bar in Windows 8. Linux is not yet user friendly and intuitive enough for millions of people to use. Software is also a huge issue. People scream "open source" and "wine", but open source software is still miles behind the professional alternatives, and wine rarely works 100% under the best conditions.[/QUOTE] I'm surprised you have issues with installation. Usually that's the easiest part, as most are set it and forget it. Heck, I forgot that I had an openSUSE install running on a VM on my laptop, and it was already sitting on the desktop. I mean I could understand Arch or Debian since they are fairly involved, but most seem to have zero issues as long as you don't have hardware that have closed source drivers. CentOS seems user friendly enough for my dad, and he's pretty much tech retarded. He figured out how to use Firefox, set wallpapers, themes and all that stuff on his own. Impressive considering he doesn't have a password because he can't remember them. WINE is never going to perfect, as its trying to simulate a proprietary API that's constantly changing. Its more of a patch to the real issue that more developers need to port and develop for Linux.

[QUOTE=Demache;45733977]I'm surprised you have issues with installation. Usually that's the easiest part, as most are set it and forget it. Heck, I forgot that I had an openSUSE install running on a VM on my laptop, and it was already sitting on the desktop. I mean I could understand Arch or Debian since they are fairly involved, but most seem to have zero issues as long as you don't have hardware that have closed source drivers. CentOS seems user friendly enough for my dad, and he's pretty much tech retarded. He figured out how to use Firefox, set wallpapers, themes and all that stuff on his own. Impressive considering he doesn't have a password because he can't remember them. WINE is never going to perfect, as its trying to simulate a proprietary API that's constantly changing. Its more of a patch to the real issue that more developers need to port and develop for Linux.[/QUOTE] I've tried a multitude of different distros, even the more 'friendly' ones such as Ubuntu and Mint. Every time I'd have to mess around with it and launch the installer using different commands. Tried live CDs, USB keys - all the same. A large part of it is likely due to me using AMD though. Linux is terrible with AMD.

[QUOTE=Noss;45734000]I've tried a multitude of different distros, even the more 'friendly' ones such as Ubuntu and Mint. Every time I'd have to mess around with it and launch the installer using different commands. Tried live CDs, USB keys - all the same. A large part of it is likely due to me using AMD though. Linux is terrible with AMD.[/QUOTE] Still, even on my AMD machine, the only issue is I had to copy paste the Ethernet driver to the flash drive. Works flawlessly to this day, granted its a headless server, which is far beyond an average user scenario. I've never had to do anything your describing on any of the several computers I've had, even on wacky hardware like a Mac Mini G4 or a Pentium II. Not to say they had no issues (both sound related ironically), but it had more to do with old hardware than anything else. Configuring ISA sound cards is always a fun experience. The install itself was fine.

[QUOTE=Demache;45734087]Still, even on my AMD machine, the only issue is I had to copy paste the Ethernet driver to the flash drive. Works flawlessly to this day, granted its a headless server, which is far beyond an average user scenario. I've never had to do anything your describing on any of the several computers I've had, even on wacky hardware like a Mac Mini G4 or a Pentium II. Not to say they had no issues, but it had more to do with old nonstandard hardware than anything else.[/QUOTE] Just because you haven't had any issues doesn't mean that nobody else has though. A quick google will show thousands of people with similar issues. Windows doesn't usually have these same problems, the majority of the time it can be installed relatively quickly and painlessly because the majority of hardware is supported. Linux is very hit-and-miss when it comes to hardware support and drivers.

[QUOTE=Noss;45734115]Just because you haven't had any issues doesn't mean that nobody else has though. A quick google will show thousands of people with similar issues. Windows doesn't usually have these same problems, the majority of the time it can be installed relatively quickly and painlessly because the majority of hardware is supported. Linux is very hit-and-miss when it comes to hardware support and drivers.[/QUOTE] Strong emphasis on [b]usually.[/b] I've actually had the Windows installer fail several times arbitrarily. One was I had to remove the flash drive and move it to a different port because it forgot that the flash drive existed midway through install (I guess :v:). It took me way too long to figure that out since I only tried it because someone on the MS forums mentioned it. I've had disc drives actually hang the install because they were present (disabling them in the BIOS is the only solution). Granted, these problems aren't common, but I encounter far quirks during Windows installs than Linux ones.

[QUOTE=Noss;45734115]... Windows doesn't usually have these same problems, the majority of the time it can be installed relatively quickly and painlessly because the majority of hardware is supported. Linux is very hit-and-miss when it comes to hardware support and drivers.[/QUOTE] For newer hardware there can be issues, but otherwise it's usually better. Last time I had issues with hardware under Linux was a rather cheap laptop that had a lame chipset, Windows wasn't affected because the driver there sucked even worse and didn't initialise the buggy features.

[QUOTE][URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1418498"]New Windows 7 Update Causes Blue Screen of Death[/URL][/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Linux-on-the-desktop pioneer Munich now considering a switch back to Windows[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=antianan;45734305][quotes][/QUOTE] clearly computing in general isn't ready for the mainstream yet [editline]18th August 2014[/editline] we've been bamboozled it seems

[QUOTE=Swilly;45731708]Yeah, but like most distros, you have to get that GUI front end, yourself, which almost always includes terminal.[/QUOTE] Oh my god don't state that bullshit as fact. Ubuntu alone comes with every GUI front end you could imagine. It even has GUI for changing/updating video drivers, let alone normal activities. Windows doesn't even come with shit like that. I think you, among many other people who've used Linux, mistake using the terminal to fix a problem as using the terminal for normal activities. When googling for a fix in Linux, you're going to be getting answers from Linux power users who will just tell you to copy and paste commands in the terminal. Which is far easier for them than describing where to find it in the GUI. This is true too for installing or using certain applications. Sometimes it's just easier to speak terminal to answer a question, rather than describe how to use the GUI to essentially do the same thing.