Don't come to Britain, it sucks

[NoDachi]

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39416927]I love it how you guys post a couple of citations from here and there, demanding that we post citations aswell, while completely ignoring the economical state we live in.

OH hey!
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/01/31/euro-unemployment-rates_n_1243465.html[/url]

OH hi!
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10604117[/url]

For the UK, by the UK.[/QUOTE]

What exactly are these ~citations~ for?

You don't even have a argument. You're just going "UNEMPLOYMENT!! errr.. IMMIGRATION!! errr NONSENSICAL RAMBLE"

[David29]

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39416811]Riiiight... Because free benefits or getting overly payed beyond normal doesn't happens at all.[/QUOTE]

No, it doesn't.

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39416927]I love it how you guys post a couple of citations from here and there, demanding that we post citations aswell, while completely ignoring the economical state we live in.

OH hey!
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/01/31/euro-unemployment-rates_n_1243465.html[/url]

OH hi!
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10604117[/url]

For the UK, by the UK.[/QUOTE]

Yes. Unemployment is high. [b]WE KNOW[/b]. [u]Do you have any deffinitive proof that this is a direct result of immigration?[/u]

[Rocâ„¢]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;39416977]What exactly are these ~citations~ for?

You don't even have a argument. You're just going "UNEMPLOYMENT!! errr.. IMMIGRATION!! errr NONSENSICAL RAMBLE"[/QUOTE]

So... Basically, you ignore everything that doesn't fits your ideas and read it as "nonsensical ramble".

Yup, I'm the dumb one... For giving you any attention whatsoever.
Have fun in your perfect world where everyone apparently has a job and business is blooming.

[NoDachi]

[QUOTE=David29;39417063]Yes. Unemployment is high. [b]WE KNOW[/b]. [u]Do you have any deffinitive proof that this is a direct result of immigration?[/u][/QUOTE]

[I]LOGIC[/I] and [B]COMMON SENSE[/B] David29, Logic and common sense.

And a complete disregard for empirical evidence and informed studies on the matter.

[deltasquid]

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39417082]Have fun in your perfect world where everyone apparently has a job and business is blooming.[/QUOTE]

Except nobody is saying this. You're saying immigration is causing the bad economical situation, but the only proof you can give is that the economy is bad. We're not asking you to prove that. We're asking for a proof, based on evidence, that the economical situation is caused by immigration.

[a dumb bear]

please, come visit the UK, you can see our wonderful native people that go by the name of "chavs"

[NoDachi]

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39417082]So... Basically, you ignore everything that doesn't fits your ideas and read it as "nonsensical ramble".

Yup, I'm the dumb one... For giving you any attention whatsoever.
Have fun in your perfect world where everyone apparently has a job and business is blooming.[/QUOTE]

Its a nonsensical rambling because you finish everything with

"Have fun in your perfect world where everyone apparently has a job and business is blooming."

Which doesn't even make sense.

[Rocâ„¢]

[QUOTE=David29;39417063]No, it doesn't.

Yes. Unemployment is high. [b]WE KNOW[/b]. [u]Do you have any deffinitive proof that this is a direct result of immigration?[/u][/QUOTE]
When will you people learn to read?...

What I've been saying, for the last 9 pages or so, is that more people (immigrants or non-immigrants) will just make the problem worse.

It isn't a direct result. I never said it was.

If you had more salt to your food, it's gonna get even saltier.
If you let everyone in, you're gonna get more people who most likely can't have jobs, seeing as not even the current population can.

(cue the morons dumbing me and making stupid jokes about my metaphors)

[NoDachi]

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39417168]When will you people learn to read?...

What I've been saying, for the last 9 pages or so, is that more people (immigrants or non-immigrants) will just make the problem worse.

It isn't a direct result. I never said it was.

If you had more salt to your food, it's gonna get even saltier.
If you let everyone in, you're gonna get more people who most likely can't have jobs, seeing as not even the current population can.

(cue the morons dumbing me and making stupid jokes about my metaphors)[/QUOTE]

[b]the National Institute of Economics and Social Research says there is no aggregate impact of migration on unemployment.[/b]

[b]the National Institute of Economics and Social Research says there is no aggregate impact of migration on unemployment.[/b]

[b]the National Institute of Economics and Social Research says there is no aggregate impact of migration on unemployment.[/b]

[editline]30th January 2013[/editline]

why do you ignore that?

[David29]

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39417168]What I've been saying, for the last 9 pages or so, is that more people (immigrants or non-immigrants) will just make the problem worse.[/QUOTE]

And that would be fine and dandy if you could explain why and provide some nice evidence to back your claims up - that's the general good practice for putting forwarward an argument.

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39417168]If you had more salt to your food, it's gonna get even saltier.[/QUOTE]

Bad analogy. All you are saying here is that the more immigrants that enter the UK, the greater the population will be. Two issues from this are:

1. You need to show that an increased population will negatively effect the country.
2. Death rate is lower than birth rate, so by opposing immigration on the grounds of over-population, you should also support the idea of birth restrictions.

[butt2089]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;39416668]You mean one of the most globally credible sources in the world isn't good enough for you? If you [B]actually read the article[/B] like I keep saying, then it explains it. Don't expect me to quote the whole damn thing for you.[/QUOTE]

Looking back over the links that you keep editing into your posts, it is true that in the case of this article:

[url]http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21564841-britains-immigration-policy-crippling-business-and-economy-wake-up-mr-cameron-tories[/url]

That more needs to be done to encourage talent into the country, I would not deny that in any way nor would I deny that it is vital to our economy - but could you please answer why we should open the gates to unskilled labour and people who won't work in the country?

[NoDachi]

That isn't even the article with the quote you wanted quantifying from.

[editline]30th January 2013[/editline]

[url]http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2013/01/eu-and-immigration[/url]

[quote]Mr Stewart and Ms May omit to mention the positive effects of the last big influx of workers from new EU member countries. It was vastly higher than predicted, but it was also more successful than forecast. According to a study conducted by The Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, migrants from so-called A8 countries (the eight countries that joined the EU in 2004) made a positive contribution to the country’s public finances in each fiscal year since their EU accession. Although they mostly work in low-wage jobs, their labour-force participation and employment rates tend to be higher than average, which offsets the impact of their lower wages.[/quote]

Again I'm not going to paste the entire article, now if you'd actually read it many pages ago rather than just pretending then disagreeing we wouldn't still be on this.

It says that the 'unskilled hordes' actually benefited our economy more than we projected and they have much better work willingness.

[Rocâ„¢]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;39417138]Its a nonsensical rambling because you finish everything with

"Have fun in your perfect world where everyone apparently has a job and business is blooming."

Which doesn't even make sense.[/QUOTE]

Because apparently, in your world, everyone gets a job wherever he can.

[butt2089]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;39417363]That isn't even the article with the quote you wanted quantifying from.

[editline]30th January 2013[/editline]

[url]http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2013/01/eu-and-immigration[/url]

Again I'm not going to paste the entire article, now if you'd actually read it many pages ago rather than just pretending then disagreeing we wouldn't still be on this.[/QUOTE]

Regardless, you can still answer my question.

And to address the link you've posted:

[quote]Mr Stewart and Ms May omit to mention the positive effects of the last big influx of workers from new EU member countries. It was vastly higher than predicted, but it was also more successful than forecast. According to a study conducted by The Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, migrants from so-called A8 countries (the eight countries that joined the EU in 2004) made a positive contribution to the country’s public finances in each fiscal year since their EU accession. Although they mostly work in low-wage jobs, their labour-force participation and employment rates tend to be higher than average, which offsets the impact of their lower wages.[/quote]

So a lot of Polish people come to the country, they take up employment and pay tax - hence contributing to the economy. Could British people have not taken those low-wage jobs? There are 2.5 million people unemployed. It also limits itself to public finances, e.g tax revenues - what of the money that Polish people send home, amounting to some £4 billion?

And if it's to do with their willingness to work then surely there's something wrong with the culture of work in this country. We must be doing something wrong.

[NoDachi]

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39417455]Because apparently, in your world, everyone gets a job wherever he can.[/QUOTE]

How 'apparently'?

You literally invent stuff as you go along.

[Rocâ„¢]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;39417193][B]the National Institute of Economics and Social Research says there is no aggregate impact of migration on unemployment.[/B]

[B]the National Institute of Economics and Social Research says there is no aggregate impact of migration on unemployment.[/B]

[B]the National Institute of Economics and Social Research says there is no aggregate impact of migration on unemployment.[/B]

[editline]30th January 2013[/editline]

why do you ignore that?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=David29;39417270]And that would be fine and dandy if you could explain why and provide some nice evidence to back your claims up - that's the general good practice for putting forwarward an argument.

Bad analogy. All you are saying here is that the more immigrants that enter the UK, the greater the population will be. Two issues from this are:

1. You need to show that an increased population will negatively effect the country.
2. Death rate is lower than birth rate, so by opposing immigration on the grounds of over-population, you should also support the idea of birth restrictions.[/QUOTE]

So, let me ask you: how do unemployment rates go up?
That I know of, everyone within the required age to work in a country, who doesn't currently have a job, is part of the unemployment rate.

So, what would happen when more a country has more people, and less jobs available?

[NoDachi]

[QUOTE=butt2089;39417473]So a lot of Polish people come to the country, they take up employment and pay tax - hence contributing to the economy. Could British people have not taken those low-wage jobs? There are 2.5 million people unemployed. It also limits itself to public finances, e.g tax revenues - what of the money that Polish people send home, amounting to some £4 billion?

And if it's to do with their willingness to work then surely there's something wrong with the culture of work in this country. We must be doing something wrong.[/QUOTE]

because they don't 'steal' jobs, and the contribute more to the economy than they 'send home'.

So why are people so against? It's a net win for Britain, but only xenophobic daily mail rhetoric seems to win with some people.

[editline]30th January 2013[/editline]

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39417512]So, let me ask you: how do unemployment rates go up?
That I know of, everyone within the required age to work in a country, who doesn't currently have a job, is part of the unemployment rate.

So, what would happen when more a country has more people, and less jobs available?[/QUOTE]

In case you missed again.

[B]the National Institute of Economics and Social Research says there is no aggregate impact of migration on unemployment.[/B]

Your entire argument has been torpedoed by that sentence alone.

[B]The National Institute of Rocâ„¢ and His Fucking Crackpipe.[/B] isn't credible.

[Rocâ„¢]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;39417534]because they don't 'steal' jobs, and the contribute more to the economy than they 'send home'.

So why are people so against? It's a net win for Britain, but only xenophobic daily mail rhetoric seems to win with some people.

[editline]30th January 2013[/editline]

In case you missed again.

[B]the National Institute of Economics and Social Research says there is no aggregate impact of migration on unemployment.[/B]

Your entire argument has been torpedoed by that sentence alone.

[B]The National Institute of Rocâ„¢ and His Fucking Crackpipe.[/B] isn't credible.[/QUOTE]

Holy shit, what JOBS are you gonna give to immigrants if there are no JOBS even for the locals?
Is that fucking hard to understand?

What do you get in the end?
People who either can't or don't want to work.

Or is there a special place for immigrants altogether?

[butt2089]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;39417534]because they don't 'steal' jobs, and the contribute more to the economy than they 'send home'.

So why are people so against? It's a net win for Britain, but only xenophobic daily mail rhetoric seems to win with some people.
[/QUOTE]

I don't know why you're putting steal in quote marks, I never said steal. But they are taking up low-wage unskilled jobs that people in this country could take up, how are we supposed to reduce the mass of unemployment if there is a steady stream of people coming in?

And I'm sure that they don't send home more than they pay in, but nonetheless the money still leaves the country when there is the potential that it could be retained. Could that 'net win for Britain' not be otherwise achieved by the people already in this country who are seeking work?

[NoDachi]

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39417615]Holy shit, what JOBS are you gonna give to immigrants if there are no JOBS even for the locals?
Is that fucking hard to understand?[/QUOTE]

Jobs that are normally undertaken by expensive machinery like picking fruit, factory work, dish and car washing but are cheaper to use foreign labour as an example. Jobs native British people are unwilling to do.

Factories literally spring up because of this.

[Rocâ„¢]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;39417657]Jobs that are normally undertaken by expensive machinery like picking fruit, factory work, dish and car washing but are cheaper to use foreign labour as an example. Jobs native British people are unwilling to do.

Factories literally spring up because of this.[/QUOTE]
IF there are such jobs available, and IF they don't get fired by the end of the month due to cuttings or whatever.

And that still wont provide enough jobs for everyone and probably might not pay enough for expenses either.

It's a start at most.

[NoDachi]

what ... ?

[David29]

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39417512]So, let me ask you: how do unemployment rates go up?[/QUOTE]

There are a multitude of reasons.

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39417512]That I know of, everyone within the required age to work in a country, who doesn't currently have a job, is part of the unemployment rate.[/QUOTE]

You're kind of stating the obvious there.

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39417512]So, what would happen when more a country has more people, and less jobs available?[/QUOTE]

You're talking like:

a. Immigration is the only means of population growth.
b. Immigration can't bring with it new employment opportunities for existing residents.

[Richard Longflop]

When I was a child I thought that everyone lied, that the sky was white and clouds were blue.

I can't blame my kiddie self, the skies are white with clouds so often 'round here it's eerie. Little gaps happen as if they were clouds of sky.

[Rocâ„¢]

[QUOTE=David29;39417873]You're talking like:
a. Immigration is the only means of population growth.
b. Immigration can't bring with it new employment opportunities for existing residents.[/QUOTE]
It isn't the only means of growth which makes the problem much worser, and it can bring employment opportunities, but its a very long shot nowadays.

[NoDachi]

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;39417982]It isn't the only means of growth which makes the problem much worser, and it can bring employment opportunities, but its a very long shot nowadays.[/QUOTE]

Please for the love of god substantiate something. Anything.

I beg you.

[Rocâ„¢]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;39418075]Please for the love of god substantiate something. Anything.

I beg you.[/QUOTE]
Fuck sakes...
Have you ever heard of the economy of nowadays?
How it "kills" even big businesses?
How there is less employment?

It doesn't takes a genius to know this...

[NoDachi]

sub·stan·ti·ate
/səbˈstanCHēˌāt/
Verb
Provide evidence to support or prove the truth of

[Bobie]

hey nodachi? you ever heard of this thing called the [i]economy?[/i] yeah?

immigrants.

bazingo.

[Rocâ„¢]

Fuck it.
You don't understand what an unstable economy is, and I'm not gonna explain it either to someone who can't read nor think.