Don't come to Britain, it sucks - Polidicks

[QUOTE=NoDachi;39418987]Is this how you all argue? Fuck, here we go again lads. [editline]30th January 2013[/editline] [B]JUST READ THE DAMN ARTICLE[/B] how many times do you need to be told?[/QUOTE] The article does not answer my question, at all. Why don't you try answering it?

[QUOTE=georgeface;39419018]Also, again from the BBC:[/QUOTE] Which is fucking needed right now with our ageing population.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;39419052]Which is fucking needed right now with our ageing population.[/QUOTE] Hmm true, didn't consider that, touche good sir. My argument is invalid

[QUOTE=butt2089;39419048]The article does not answer my question, at all. Why don't you try answering it?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=NoDachi;39417363]That isn't even the article with the quote you wanted quantifying from. [editline]30th January 2013[/editline] [url]http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2013/01/eu-and-immigration[/url] Again I'm not going to paste the entire article, now if you'd actually read it many pages ago rather than just pretending then disagreeing we wouldn't still be on this. [b]It says that the 'unskilled hordes' actually benefited our economy more than we projected and they have much better work willingness.[/b][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=butt2089;39419048]The article does not answer my question, at all. Why don't you try answering it?[/QUOTE] just because a job is skilled, doesn't mean its inherently more beneficial for the economy

[QUOTE=Bobie;39419084]just because a job is skilled, doesn't mean its inherently more beneficial for the economy[/QUOTE] Yup. I mean look at being a conservative MP, they say that's a skilled job..for some reason

[QUOTE=NoDachi;39419078][/QUOTE] Then we should address the willingness to work of unemployed people in this country. Why then can they not take up those jobs? And please elaborate on 'benefited our economy' because continually saying so doesn't prove anything. [QUOTE=Bobie;39419084]just because a job is skilled, doesn't mean its inherently more beneficial for the economy[/QUOTE] Then how does the introduction of unskilled labour benefit our economy when we already have people able to fill those positions?

[QUOTE=georgeface;39419106]Yup. I mean look at being a conservative MP, they say that's a skilled job..for some reason[/QUOTE] [URL]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8410489.stm[/URL] unskilled cleaners bring in £10 of value for every £1 they are paid, while bankers destroy £7 for every £1 they earn [QUOTE=butt2089;39419144]Then we should address the willingness to work of unemployed people in this country. Why then can they not take up those jobs? And please elaborate on 'benefited our economy' because continually saying so doesn't prove anything. Then how does the introduction of unskilled labour benefit our economy when we already have people able to fill those positions?[/QUOTE] we didn't have the people to fill those positions. thats the point. the unemployment rate has been unaffected by immigration. that's the point.

[QUOTE=butt2089;39419144] Then how does the introduction of unskilled labour benefit our economy when we already have people able to fill those positions?[/QUOTE] We have a lot of people that very well [I]COULD[/I] fill those positions, but those positions are considered 'minging' so the people who are most apt for doing them see staying on benefits a much easier option than cleaning toilets in a shopping centre or whatever they don't want to do

[QUOTE=butt2089;39419144]And please elaborate on 'benefited our economy' because continually saying so doesn't prove anything.[/QUOTE] [quote]According to a study conducted by The Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford, migrants from so-called A8 countries (the eight countries that joined the EU in 2004) made a positive contribution to the country’s public finances in each fiscal year since their EU accession. Although they mostly work in low-wage jobs, their labour-force participation and employment rates tend to be higher than average, which offsets the impact of their lower wages.[/quote] What can you possibly not understand about this? This has got to be the 5th time you refused to accept this as a valid rationale.

[QUOTE=georgeface;39419172]We have a lot of people that very well [I]COULD[/I] fill those positions, but those positions are considered 'minging' so the people who are most apt for doing them see staying on benefits a much easier option than cleaning toilets in a shopping centre or whatever they don't want to do[/QUOTE] i can guarantee that the unemployment rate isn't high because people don't want to do jobs they think are gross.

[QUOTE=Bobie;39419187]i can guarantee that the unemployment rate isn't high because people don't want to do jobs they think are gross.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying that it is entirely due to that, that would be a retarded statement, I'm saying that a certain percentage of people take advantage of the system because they are lazy or consider other options gross

[QUOTE=georgeface;39419212]I'm not saying that it is entirely due to that, that would be a retarded statement, I'm saying that a certain percentage of people take advantage of the system because they are lazy or consider other options gross[/QUOTE] it's very difficult to take advantage of the system without committing some kind of fraud, which is an extreme minority. people who commit benefit fraud get put away for a long time.

[QUOTE=Bobie;39419235]it's very difficult to take advantage of the system without committing some kind of fraud, which is an extreme minority. people who commit benefit fraud get put away for a long time.[/QUOTE] Yeah your right, 2.1% but Jesus, that 2.1% costs the govt. £3.5bn

[QUOTE=georgeface;39419212]I'm not saying that it is entirely due to that, that would be a retarded statement, I'm saying that a certain percentage of people take advantage of the system because they are lazy or consider other options gross[/QUOTE] Well someone who has studied all their life to be an accountant but can't get a job yet is less likely to pick up a toilet cleaning job and would want to continue job searching.

[QUOTE=Bobie;39419145][URL]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8410489.stm[/URL] unskilled cleaners bring in £10 of value for every £1 they are paid, while bankers destroy £7 for every £1 they earn we didn't have the people to fill those positions. thats the point. the unemployment rate has been unaffected by immigration. that's the point.[/QUOTE] That BBC article is ridiculous Tax accountants "Every pound that a tax accountant saves a client is a pound which otherwise would have gone to HM Revenue. For a salary of between £75,000 and £200,000, tax accountants destroy £47 in value, for every pound they generate." So utterly dumb. Also the unemployment rate will be unaffected because immigrants will simply not cause people to lose their jobs, but they will also take up jobs meaning that the unemployment rate will not fall either. [QUOTE=NoDachi;39419186]What can you possibly not understand about this? This has got to be the 5th time you refused to accept this as a valid rationale.[/QUOTE] It's not actually saying how they were beneficial though, it says that a lot of them work albeit on low wages. How is this more beneficial than if British people were to take up those jobs?

this thread: showing that idiots exist this side of the atlantic too - thanks chaps!

[QUOTE=butt2089;39419280]but they will also take up jobs meaning that the unemployment rate will not fall either.[/QUOTE] Utter bollocks. Go away, read up on economics and come back in 60 minutes.

[QUOTE=georgeface;39419268]Yeah your right, 2.1% but Jesus, that 2.1% costs the govt. £3.5bn[/QUOTE] yes, things that are illegal can cost the government alot of money. you can't place the blame on social minorities for these things however. there's simply no evidence that immigrants are more inclined to cheat the system than your average sun reader. [editline]30th January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=butt2089;39419280]That BBC article is ridiculous Tax accountants "Every pound that a tax accountant saves a client is a pound which otherwise would have gone to HM Revenue. For a salary of between £75,000 and £200,000, tax accountants destroy £47 in value, for every pound they generate." So utterly dumb. Also the unemployment rate will be unaffected because immigrants will simply not cause people to lose their jobs, but they will also take up jobs meaning that the unemployment rate will not fall either. It's not actually saying how they were beneficial though, it says that a lot of them work albeit on low wages. How is this more beneficial than if British people were to take up those jobs?[/QUOTE] lol wtf

[QUOTE=butt2089;39419280]It's not actually saying how they were beneficial though, it says that a lot of them work albeit on low wages. How is this more beneficial than if British people were to take up those jobs?[/QUOTE] "made a positive contribution to the country’s public finances in each fiscal year since their EU accession." How can you not understand this. Where is your reading comprehension.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;39419312]"made a positive contribution to the country’s public finances in each fiscal year since their EU accession." How can you not understand this. Where is your reading comprehension.[/QUOTE] There is no explanation to it, what is it in reference to? To say that they made a positive contribution could be as simple as saying they put in to the pot more than they took out - which could well be true. But why is that better than if British workers were to have taken those jobs? There could have been less people claiming unemployment benefits

[QUOTE=Bobie;39419301]immigrants are more inclined to cheat the system than your average sun reader.[/QUOTE] Lol hatred for the sun, I like, even our geography teacher slips in quick digs about it, I laugh, a couple of friends do then he has to apologize because he remembers most parents of kids in the south west read it apparently.

my granddad reads the sun and updates me on a weekly basis about how the polish are going to invade i just nod and smile

[QUOTE=butt2089;39419376]There is no explanation to it, what is it in reference to? To say that they made a positive contribution could be as simple as saying they put in to the pot more than they took out - which could well be true. But why is that better than if British workers were to have taken those jobs? There would have been less people claiming unemployment benefits[/QUOTE] Okay. I'm going to explain it you [I]reaaaaaal simple[/I] what the article tells us. We make money off migrants coming to our country. We don't lose money by migrants coming to this country. We don't lose jobs to migrants coming to our country, since more jobs are created by the increase in economic activity. Unemployment is not effected negatively [B]at all[/B]. We make money, we make jobs. Everyone is happy. Except Tabloidmonkeys. If you can't grasp these simple fundamental economic principles then you really have no business trying to argue them.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;39419428]Okay. I'm going to explain it you [I]reaaaaaal simple[/I] what the article tells us. We make money off migrants coming to our country. We don't lose money by migrants coming to this country. We don't lose jobs to migrants coming to our country, since more jobs are created by the increase in economic activity. Unemployment is not effected negatively [B]at all[/B]. We make money, we make jobs. Everyone is happy. Except Tabloidmonkeys.[/QUOTE] My point remaining that we pay out millions in benefits to people who are unemployed - would those same conditions not be created had those jobs been taken up by British people? Also I'm not at all suggesting that jobs are lost, merely that is stagnates unemployment at a ridiculously high level. And I would also suggest that not every is happy, particularly the 2.5 million people who are unemployed.

[QUOTE=butt2089;39419464]My point remaining that we pay out millions in benefits to people who are unemployed - would those same conditions not be created had those jobs been taken up by British people? Also I'm not at all suggesting that jobs are lost, merely that is stagnates unemployment at a ridiculously high level. And I would also suggest that not every is happy, particularly the 2.5 million people who are unemployed.[/QUOTE] the stagnation of employment has not been caused by immigration however. if you want people to get their jobs, taking opportunities away is not how you do it.

[QUOTE=georgeface;39416289]ANOTHER FAN :') I think we can take alot of points from the thick of it in this thread, alot of points.[/QUOTE] I'm always pleased when I meet another the thick of it quoting fanboy - it's like we have a strange kinship :)

[QUOTE=Generic.Monk;39419493]I'm always pleased when I meet another the thick of it quoting fanboy - it's like we have a strange kinship :)[/QUOTE] Indeed it is, a report came out not too long ago with 2 ministers saying that The Thick of It, isn't far from what really happens, oh how I smiled and skipped and sang that day, that show is my most watched on Netflix, also just to derail (:>) Favorite episode?

[QUOTE=Bobie;39419490]the stagnation of employment has not been caused by immigration however. if you want people to get their jobs, taking opportunities away is not how you do it.[/QUOTE] But of the jobs that have been created, given from the economist article that Polish people have a high employment rate and a lot have come to the UK, a lot of jobs will have been taken up by Polish workers, surely that doesn't help in reducing the unemployment rate in this country? How do you suggest that you get British people back into work whilst retaining a high increase in the labour force?

[QUOTE=butt2089;39419523]But of the jobs that have been created, given from the economist article that Polish people have a high employment rate and a lot have come to the UK, a lot of jobs will have been taken up by Polish workers, surely that doesn't help in reducing the unemployment rate in this country? How do you suggest that you get British people back into work whilst retaining a high increase in the labour force?[/QUOTE] i don't care about specific nationalities. the british can go fuck themselves for all i care. if you want to reduce the unemployment rate then i think the government should take some serious consideration into expanding the public sector, while encouraging competition in the private. there's no easy answer, but capping immigration will have devastating effects.