• 22 year old spared jail over sex with 15 year old - "it was utterly inappropriate but fully consente
    275 replies, posted
[QUOTE=wheel_user;46586926]why the fuck are we still talking about pedophilia ?[/QUOTE] Because it's easy flamebait so creeps and weirdos can get banned.
[QUOTE=wheel_user;46586926]Is it really that hard of a concept to grasp, 6 pages into the thread, after it's been explained multiple times, that the question here is whether or not the persons could legally consent and not pedophilia ? why the fuck are we still talking about pedophilia ?[/QUOTE] Because Facepunch is comprised of a bunch of fat smarmy nerds.
[QUOTE=Kagu;46586907]You're using the wrong terminology. That's my problem. I'm not condoning anything, judging from your previous posts, you barely read shit and if you just took a glance at one page back and the very page your post is on, I stated that the judge should have put that man in jail for the very same reasons as your second sentence. But "pedophilia" is the incorrect term. You are blatantly ignoring this fact. It's "statutory rape".[/QUOTE] Oh so it's just rape, nevermind, that's totally okay!
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;46587174]Oh so it's just rape, nevermind, that's totally okay![/QUOTE] Statutory rape is a hilariously daft legal concept anyway. But I guess the law is omnipotent... Funny how the same people who would vouch that all policeman are bad are the first people to cite the law in situations like this... [editline]27th November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=PiX06;46571935]Bring back the smartness system[/QUOTE] Better yet, just permaban Ownederd.
[QUOTE=kill all nerd;46587180]Funny how the same people who would vouch that all policeman are bad are the first people to cite the law in situations like this..[/QUOTE] I've never acted like that so I don't know why you're saying this
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;46587200]I've never acted like that so I don't know why you're saying this[/QUOTE] I was just making an assumption. I'll own up to it.
[QUOTE=kill all nerd;46587180]Statutory rape is a hilariously daft legal concept anyway. [/QUOTE] uhhh lmao, no it isn't??
[QUOTE=kill all nerd;46587180]Statutory rape is a hilariously daft legal concept anyway. But I guess the law is omnipotent... Funny how the same people who would vouch that all policeman are bad are the first people to cite the law in situations like this...[/QUOTE] actually no not really
[QUOTE=Marzipas;46587212]uhhh lmao, no it isn't??[/QUOTE] Yes it is. Most people aged 15 and up are pretty well aware of sex and can decide whether or not they are ready for it or not. Can you please not type like that? [editline]27th November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;46587221]actually no not really[/QUOTE] What precisely are you even responding to?
[QUOTE=kill all nerd;46587222]Yes it is. Most people aged 15 and up are pretty well aware of sex and can decide whether or not they are ready for it or not. Can you please not type like that?[/QUOTE] lol. there are loads of instances where people who think they are well aware of sex and go and do it, and then years down the line when they actually mature, i.e. hit the age of consent, realise why it's there, and they realise they've been taken advantage of. statutory rape isn't a concept that exists just to punish people for engaging in sex with people under the age of consent, its to protect these people, because no matter how much they believe themselves to understand what they are doing, they most likely dont. I covered criminal law in the first year of my course last year and there are loads of cases where there is someone under the age of consent who think they are fine with what they are doing, but realise down the line that they were taken advantage of and basically violated. It's a safeguard and to call it some "daft legal concept" is pretty ignorant. and i'll type how i like.
[QUOTE=kill all nerd;46587222]Yes it is. Most people aged 15 and up are pretty well aware of sex and can decide whether or not they are ready for it or not.[/QUOTE] based on?
[QUOTE=Marzipas;46587256]lol. there are loads of instances where people who think they are well aware of sex and go and do it, and then years down the line when they actually mature, i.e. hit the age of consent, realise why it's there, and they realise they've been taken advantage of. statutory rape isn't a concept that exists just to punish people for engaging in sex with people under the age of consent, its to protect these people, because no matter how much they believe themselves to understand what they are doing, they most likely dont. I covered criminal law in the first year of my course last year and there are loads of cases where there is someone under the age of consent who think they are fine with what they are doing, but realise down the line that they were taken advantage of and basically violated. It's a safeguard and to call it some "daft legal concept" is pretty ignorant. and i'll type how i like.[/QUOTE] Have you completely forgotten what it's like to be 15 years old? You're talking like someone who is completely out of touch with younger people. I'm 19 and I have numerous people on Steam added who are still of high-school age, and the way they talk to me is the same as some of my friends who are in their 20's. I'd rather have no law than a law that vilifies those whose moralities are being mistakenly questioned.
[QUOTE=kill all nerd;46587180][B]Statutory rape is a hilariously daft legal concept anyway[/B]. But I guess the law is omnipotent... Funny how the same people who would vouch that all policeman are bad are the first people to cite the law in situations like this... [editline]27th November 2014[/editline] Better yet, just permaban Ownederd.[/QUOTE] Permabanning you seems to be the better option judging from that very intelligent remark you just made.
[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;46587296]Permabanning you seems to be the better option judging from that very intelligent remark you just made.[/QUOTE] Bazinga, am I right, guys!? [editline]27th November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;46587276]based on?[/QUOTE] Well, having been 15 at some point in my life, and having a couple of friends who are like 16-17. You guys aren't giving teenagers enough credit. Like, they aren't middle schoolers.
[QUOTE=kill all nerd;46587294]Have you completely forgotten what it's like to be 15 years old? You're talking like someone who is completely out of touch with younger people. I'm 19 and I have numerous people on Steam added who are still of high-school age, and the way they talk to me is the same as some of my friends who are in their 20's. I'd rather have no law than a law that vilifies those whose moralities are being mistakenly questioned.[/QUOTE] Because the way they talk = the way they think. some people you have as friends on steam is hardly relevant because a law isn't there to deal with a niche of potentially a few small people who's minds have never developed in a way that would have made them make decisions that future-them would doubt. and I haven't forgotten what its like being 15. in fact, i specifically remember thinking "gosh I'd hate to be shagged by an older person at this tender age." [editline]27th November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=kill all nerd;46587299] Well, having been 15 at some point in my life, and having a couple of friends who are like 16-17. You guys aren't giving teenagers enough credit. Like, they aren't middle schoolers.[/QUOTE] I don't think you get this. Nobody is saying 15 year olds are too young to make decisions. There are factors which you have to take into account when people are this age. hormones, education, experience, this sort of thing. These can make people think they know everything about something, when really they are wrong, and when they grow up, the hormones stop acting up, they are properly informed and know what happened, they realise that what happened to them wasn't ok, and if they could go back with the mindset they have now, they would never go ahead with it. Just because you are young enough to be taken advantage of doesn't make you a "middle schooler".
[QUOTE=Marzipas;46587327]Because the way they talk = the way they think. some people you have as friends on steam is hardly relevant because a law isn't there to deal with a niche of potentially a few small people who's minds have never developed in a way that would have made them make decisions that future-them would doubt. and I haven't forgotten what its like being 15. in fact, i specifically remember thinking "gosh I'd hate to be shagged by an older person at this tender age."[/QUOTE] God, there are people who are 15 who have had sex and don't regret it. Did I just blow your mind? I understand that SOME people can be taken advantage of because of their age, but saying every 15 year old has the decision making skills of a chimpanzee is an offensive generalization. Why is there this big assumption that everybody under the age of consent is being "raped"? That's my probably with statutory rape. Maybe I went to the most fucked up high-school on the planet, but in my sophomore year, people were fucking, and they were fucking hard. You think all those kids were raped? I really don't understand what point you're trying to make. [editline]27th November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Marzipas;46587327]I don't think you get this. Nobody is saying 15 year olds are too young to make decisions. There are factors which you have to take into account when people are this age. hormones, education, experience, this sort of thing. These can make people think they know everything about something, when really they are wrong, and when they grow up, the hormones stop acting up, they are properly informed and know what happened, they realise that what happened to them wasn't ok, and if they could go back with the mindset they have now, they would never go ahead with it. Just because you are young enough to be taken advantage of doesn't make you a "middle schooler".[/QUOTE] Okay dude. But I can say it pissed me off to no end when I was 15 and "adults" kept cramming in to my ear "all you damn teenagers think you're invincible. Guess what. Life bites back." It was around that age that I was having an existential crisis and having anxiety attacks over death as a concept every night. Even at age 19, it upsets me to see people that age not being taken seriously. Even if someone is not a legal adult, their opinions and thoughts matter, too.
[QUOTE=kill all nerd;46587352] Even at age 19, it upsets me to see people that age not being taken seriously. Even if someone is not a legal adult, their opinions and thoughts matter, too.[/QUOTE] It's not about them not being taken seriously. Statutory rape is a safeguard. Typically, the vast majority of people will have matured by a certain age, and for them to do anything before this age could mean that someone is taking advantage of them, whether they know it at the time or not. The law has to work this way, because its not like every 15-year old can be handed a written test before they have sex which evaluates how much they understand what they are doing. It has to protect as many people as possible. None of this has anything to do with 15-year olds being treated as children, this isn't doing anything bad to them, this is protecting them from sick cunts who want to have sex with them, who can easily convince them its what they want.
[QUOTE=Marzipas;46587387]It's not about them not being taken seriously. Statutory rape is a safeguard. Typically, the vast majority of people will have matured by a certain age, and for them to do anything before this age could mean that someone is taking advantage of them, whether they know it at the time or not. The law has to work this way, because its not like every 15-year old can be handed a written test before they have sex which evaluates how much they understand what they are doing. It has to protect as many people as possible. None of this has anything to do with 15-year olds being treated as children, this isn't doing anything bad to them, this is protecting them from sick cunts who want to have sex with them, who can easily convince them its what they want.[/QUOTE] Alright, you've shown me its purpose. But I still think innocent people can be made in to criminals through this. Yeah, 22 and 15 is a little steep, but I really can't say I wouldn't have jumped at the opportunity to have sex with someone that age when I was 15. There are too many blurred lines. In the end... I can't really come out with a different opinion than I started. There are too many variables.
[QUOTE=kill all nerd;46587352]God, there are people who are 15 who have had sex and don't regret it. Did I just blow your mind? I understand that SOME people can be taken advantage of because of their age, but saying every 15 year old has the decision making skills of a chimpanzee is an offensive generalization. Why is there this big assumption that everybody under the age of consent is being "raped"? That's my probably with statutory rape. Maybe I went to the most fucked up high-school on the planet, but in my sophomore year, people were fucking, and they were fucking hard. You think all those kids were raped? I really don't understand what point you're trying to make. [/QUOTE] Statutory rape laws exist for a reason m80, its there to prevent people who are more mentally mature from taking advantage of younger people. becuase its [i] much [/i] easier to manipulate a 15 year old than it is to manipulate a grown adult. A pretty bad Example i know of, anecdotal i know, but it might help you grasp why the law is needed- where i live all the alternative kids have been hanging out around the corner from the bus station since i was 13. there is a really fucked up guy, 26 years old- (literal rapist, but thats a different story)- who has been hanging around there for about 5 years, each year he waits for the next group of 15 year old high school girls to start hanging out there, convinces them hes 19, engages as many of them as he can in a horribly abusive relationship one by one, scares them into not talking to anyone about it, then drops off the radar once everyone gets wise to the fact hes raping teenage girls- comes back next year when the new generation of teens moves up there, rinse repeat. If this fucker tried to do this to adults he would be either woefully unsuccessful, or locked up already- but teenagers are easily manipulated, easily scared, easily pressured, so it works.
[QUOTE=kill all nerd;46587299]Well, having been 15 at some point in my life, and having a couple of friends who are like 16-17. You guys aren't giving teenagers enough credit. Like, they aren't middle schoolers.[/QUOTE] If we're going by anecdotal evidence, I remember being a lot less mature at 15, and I sure as hell regret a shitload of stuff I did back then, as do most of my friends. I also have one friend who had a really bad sexual experience at that age (an older guy started a relationship with her, got her drunk one night, they had sex and he left her) and was left emotionally scarred and unable to commit to any sort of deep relationship for years. She completely trusted the guy and definitely thought she knew what she was doing. If you really think changing the law just so some teenagers who think they know what they're getting into can bang people a few years older than them at the cost of millions of others having mental breakdowns and waves of suicidal thoughts, then I'd say you've got a pretty poor grasp of risk/reward ratios
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;46587464]If we're going by anecdotal evidence, I remember being a lot less mature at 15, and I sure as hell regret a shitload of stuff I did back then, as do most of my friends. I also have one friend who had a really bad sexual experience at that age (an older guy started a relationship with her, got her drunk one night, they had sex and he left her) and was left emotionally scarred and unable to commit to any sort of deep relationship for years. She completely trusted the guy and definitely thought she knew what she was doing. If you really think changing the law just so some teenagers who think they know what they're getting into can bang people a few years older than them at the cost of millions of others having mental breakdowns and waves of suicidal thoughts, then I'd say you've got a pretty poor grasp of risk/reward ratios[/QUOTE] This assumption of teenagers only being capable of "thinking" they know what they're doing is starting to piss me off. And no, I don't think changing the law will do shit. There really is no solution to any of this.
[QUOTE=kill all nerd;46587479]This assumption of teenagers only being capable of "thinking" they know what they're doing is starting to piss me off. And no, I don't think changing the law will do shit. There really is no solution to any of this.[/QUOTE] Not all of them do. Nobody here is saying 100% of teenagers cannot think for themselves. However, we really can't measure exactly how mature someone is. Even if we could, like Marzipas said, it's not like we'd be handing out tests so we could see which teenagers are smart enough to know exactly what they're doing. What we can measure, however, is the fact that 15 year olds simply haven't fully developed yet, or the colossal amount of cases of people who regret decisions they took at that age
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;46587174]Oh so it's just rape, nevermind, that's totally okay![/QUOTE] I wish they brought back the "Bad Reading" rating.
[QUOTE=Marzipas;46587387]Statutory rape is a safeguard.[/QUOTE] And when it ruins people's lives over nothing, it's a pretty shitty safeguard. [QUOTE=fulgrim;46587460]A pretty bad Example i know of, anecdotal i know, but it might help you grasp why the law is needed- where i live all the alternative kids have been hanging out around the corner from the bus station since i was 13. there is a really fucked up guy, 26 years old- (literal rapist, but thats a different story)- who has been hanging around there for about 5 years, each year he waits for the next group of 15 year old high school girls to start hanging out there, convinces them hes 19, engages as many of them as he can in a horribly abusive relationship one by one, scares them into not talking to anyone about it, then drops off the radar once everyone gets wise to the fact hes raping teenage girls- comes back next year when the new generation of teens moves up there, rinse repeat. If this fucker tried to do this to adults he would be either woefully unsuccessful, or locked up already- but teenagers are easily manipulated, easily scared, easily pressured, so it works.[/QUOTE] Off-topic, but have you tried doing anything about that? Going to the police, maybe? That guy should be locked up.
[QUOTE=DrTaxi;46589418] Off-topic, but have you tried doing anything about that? Going to the police, maybe? That guy should be locked up.[/QUOTE] I can't report him on someone else's behalf if they are too scared to testify against him. I learned about him through people i know who have first hand experience, a year or so after the events, none of them are willing to go to the police because the last time a girl went to the police about him it was months after the rape (after she finally got out of the realtionship and he stopped stalking her)- they didnt have enough evidence to do anything about it, and then they lost all their friends for making "false rape claims". My area has a pretty nasty problem with this kind of thing, sexual harassment and the like are stupidly common, and you hear about unreported rapes all the time.
so 2 teenage girls found this guy attractive? [IMG]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/24/2373D2A200000578-2847142-image-43_1416830178890.jpg[/IMG] God help us
I really wish x2-7 became a part of the legal system.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46585471]Etymology wise, Pedo means boy/child, it doesn't mean legally underage. In the US, the psychiatric designation for pedophilia in the DSM-5 (in which it's called pedophilic disorder) is as follow : "Over a period of at least six months, recurrent, intense, sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges or behaviors involving sexual activity with a [B]prepubescent[/B] child or children." Having sexual relationships with a fifteen years old teenage girl who's fully physically able to have sex and mentally able to consent doesn't make you a pedophile. [B]It makes you weird because it's very close to being pedophilia from an age standpoint, sure, but it's not pedophilia and as such is not a mental disorder or a criminal offense.[/B][/QUOTE] Weird maybe to you, but that's quite.. subjective? And it depends on the individual. So, the law should say that having sex with [I]prepubescent[/I] people is illegal, then it would make perfect sense. That'd be effectively outlawing pedophilia as it seems to me. Giving an arbitrary number like 15 ain't gonna cut it that's all, it's not accurate enough.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;46592493]Weird maybe to you, but that's quite.. subjective? And it depends on the individual. So, the law should say that having sex with [I]prepubescent[/I] people is illegal, then it would make perfect sense. That'd be effectively outlawing pedophilia as it seems to me. Giving an arbitrary number like 15 ain't gonna cut it that's all, it's not accurate enough.[/QUOTE] You can't measure puberty, it's not more accurate at all. Also, having been through puberty doesn't mean that you can't be taken advantage of, especially 14-15 year olds. Sexually mature, but not mentally.
[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;46592601]You can't measure puberty, it's not more accurate at all. Also, having been through puberty doesn't mean that you can't be taken advantage of, especially 14-15 year olds. Sexually mature, but not mentally.[/QUOTE] Yes, sometimes. It can go either way really.
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