• Sons of Iraqi ambassador to Portugal beat 15yr old into coma, cannot be charged because of immunity
    54 replies, posted
This is how vigilantism is born.
If that had happened here in Argentina, you would have the whole city besieging the embassy Iran revolution style overnight. Wouldnt give a fuck about armed guards either.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;50912412]something necessary to have even the most basic discourse between countries: don't shoot the messenger, no matter what it's sad that shit like that happens and no one can get prosecuted but diplomatic immunity isn't something we can really do away with[/QUOTE] It shouldn't cover the family. Only the diplomat. I don't see how the kids of any diplomat should have immunity.
[QUOTE=Maximo13;50913148]It shouldn't cover the family. Only the diplomat. I don't see how the kids of any diplomat should have immunity.[/QUOTE] Because if you imprison a diplomat's wife, son, and two daughters, you've gained the ability to strong-arm a foreign ambassador to do what you want. Diplomatic immunity looks bad in cases like these, but it doesn't matter - the positive protections it offers are far, far more important than the negatives. Why would anyone be a diplomat to a country if they could legally have their families imprisoned on falsified charges? Portugal can kick them all out of the country, but there's a very good reason why they're not allowed to prosecute them under Portuguese law. Unless you're okay with Saudi Arabia prosecuting the families of western diplomats under Saudi Arabian law?
So, Portugal can't prosecute them technically, but if Iraq doesn't let justice be done in some way, that'll be a diplomatic problem by itself. Perhaps prosecute them according to Iraq law? Diplomacy is about reaching compromise and agreement, so it's not like DI people's actions have no consequences at all.
Wouldn't weep if the entire embassy burns to the ground with them inside.
[QUOTE=Talishmar;50914348]So, Portugal can't prosecute them technically, but if Iraq doesn't let justice be done in some way, that'll be a diplomatic problem by itself. Perhaps prosecute them according to Iraq law? Diplomacy is about reaching compromise and agreement, so it's not like DI people's actions have no consequences at all.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it very much depends on the country. In 1999, the wife of a Japanese ambassador to Canada once went to the ER with two black eyes and bruising, and her husband admitted that he beat her and that she deserved it. Canada couldn't do shit until the Japanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs waived his diplomatic immunity, at which point they arrested him, he pleaded guilty, they discharged him, and he was sent back to Japan where he lost his job and had his pay cut. In 2014, a Malaysian diplomat in New Zealand followed a 21-year-old woman home and robbed her and raped her. Before he was arrested, he returned to Malaysia because of miscommunication between the two countries. Eventually, Malaysia revoked diplomatic immunity and sent him back to Australia for trial, where he was convicted. Iraq might revoke their diplomatic immunity and let the kid get tried under Portuguese law, or they might not and Portugal will just kick them out. It'd be in Iraq's best interest to revoke DI to avoid diplomatic strain between the two countries. But there's a very real possibility he could just leave to Iraq and get away with it - but there's next to no chance Portugal will just let him continue living in Portugal. [editline]19th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=GhillieBacca;50914371]Wouldn't weep if the entire embassy burns to the ground with them inside.[/QUOTE] The father didn't even do shit, though, his sons did. But we gotta hit that daily quota of calling for mob justice and the execution of innocent people.
Is this guy in his position because he's well connected, or because of genuine reasons? If it's the former, he'll probably be kicked out and get away with it. If it's the latter, he'll probably be punished at least by Iraq for embarrassing the country.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwC_IaY3BmY[/media] if only [I]disclaimer: this post is intended as humor and not a serious proposition that any party involved in the incident outlined in this article should be shot[/I]
This is absolutely disgusting. Pisses me off to no end to see people abuse their power. They are the sons of an ambassador, this means they have a certain standard they must upheld to. These two little bastards are a disgrace to their country and deserve to rot in jail just like any other criminal.
Why does Portugal needs ties to Iraq anyway?
[QUOTE=Fourier;50914783]Why does Portugal needs ties to Iraq anyway?[/QUOTE] I didn't even know there was an Iraqi embassy in Portugal. And in Alentejo of all places? Or were the guy's sons on a trip? Earlier on the Portuguese news channel I heard that the judge wanted diplomatic immunity to be revoked, but I can't find a written source.
Either way, once that dude and his sons get back home I can imagine some serious explaining is going to go down. When your job is to represent the interests and values of your entire country to the world, the last thing that you could possibly want is for you or your family to fuck up this badly and for it to become international news.
[QUOTE=willer;50917064]Either way, once that dude and his sons get back home I can imagine some serious explaining is going to go down. When your job is to represent the interests and values of your entire country to the world, the last thing that you could possibly want is for you or your family to fuck up this badly and for it to become international news.[/QUOTE] If he's feeling really responsible he'll have his sons locked up and pay for the medical bills for that boy his offspring viciously assaulted. Even then no matter how much he can punish his kids, no matter how much money he can give, the damage will never go away. Those two sons of his have caused injuries so grave the victim may never recover, if he even manages to survive first that is.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;50913197]Unless you're okay with Saudi Arabia prosecuting the families of western diplomats under Saudi Arabian law?[/QUOTE] Maybe we shouldn't have diplomatic relations with countries that want to imprison our diplomatic staff over religious differences? [sp]Yes I know, money and geopolitics > human rights[/sp]
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50917407]Maybe we shouldn't have diplomatic relations with countries that want to imprison our diplomatic staff over religious differences? [sp]Yes I know, money and geopolitics > human rights[/sp][/QUOTE] Unfortunately, yeah, that's how it works. The US isn't friends with Saudi Arabia because we share cultural values and ideological views. The [I]purpose[/I] of diplomacy is to foster relations with countries we disagree with in the first place. Unless you'd rather just have us start wars with countries we dislike, like we did centuries ago in the times before diplomacy had any power?
The entire point of nations is that they're "isolated" groups of population with differing opinions of how things should be run. Otherwise, we'd be one giant global single nation. In order to have any diplomacy between nations, you have to accept that their cultures are different. [editline]20th August 2016[/editline] Although it'd be a massive PR boost for the Iraqi people if they waived the immunity.
[QUOTE=orgornot;50912364]Diplomatic immunity was meant to protect diplomats' religious rights, etc. Not to be abused like this. When invoked, it should come with severe consequences, like cutting ties between the countries or firing the ambassador. That would discourage it from being abused.[/QUOTE] I agree! The Viena convention is clear in its introduction: immunity it's just created to allow diplomatic agents to proceed with their duties without being disturbed. Surely not to allow teen agers to beat people to death. A very dangerous precedent. [editline]20th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Perrine;50912351][url]http://portugalresident.com/twin-sons-of-portugal%E2%80%99s-iraqi-ambassador-arrested-as-15-year-old-fights-for-life-in-coma[/url] Additional portugese sources: [url]http://expresso.sapo.pt/sociedade/2016-08-18-Suspeitos-de-agressao-a-jovem-em-Ponte-de-Sor-tem-imunidade-diplomatica-1[/url] [url]https://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/porque-tem-imunidade-podem-andar-a-espancar-pessoas-e-a-conduzir-embriagados-1741761[/url][/QUOTE] If Immunity is confused with Impunity, all the Ambassador sons all over the world should be allowed to beat someone to death. Portuguese authorities should never let go the Iraqui Ambassador sons.
You'd think ambassadors would get fired on the spot for making an ass out of their country. You're supposed to REPRESENT YOUR COUNTRY'S BEST, not its worst.
Wow, its exactly as they portrait in movies? This is so fucking wrong.
It's in Iraq's best interests to maintain good relations with the West so I sincerely doubt that they'll get away with this, it's not like we're talking about North Korea or something.
[url]http://www.sabado.pt/portugal/seguranca/detalhe/o_que_pode_acontecer_aos_filhos_do_embaixador_do_iraque.html[/url] ministery of foreign affairs is pondering whether to lift diplomatic immunity, expel the ambassador as a persona non grata or waiting to see if Iraq will punish the twins under their own law. neighbours witnessed one of the twins jumping with both feet on top of the 15 year olds head repeatedly. additionally, one of them was expelled from the air training school he was attending.
It seems like the simple solution would be to pull them back to their own country and then try them there.
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